Upgrading stock campaigns: Northern Sabre...any other ideas?

[macelena]

There are many of us with several titles, in fact, look at the success of mods intended for full-5-merged installs. This gives quite an amount of stock resources to cross-share between scenarios and campaigns to spice it up a little bit, beyond what TW already does. I´ll begin with Iceland.

 

By the NATO side

 

One of the first things i did was using SF2Vs CVA-63 model to add another carrier along with a full CVW identical to the one used: USS America and CVW-11, wich was relatively close to the AO in real life when the war was meant to begin. It is a bit unbalancing, but hey, Iceland is almost overrun and there are plenty of Vampyres laying around. Most use for variety, indeed. Could anybody tell what was America BG composed of in his 79 cruise?

 

Another aspect was bringing more Phantoms to the area. If you have SF2E, you don´t only have USAF 57th FIS flyable at Keflavik, but you will also get RAF Phantoms as a reinforcement in the default campaign (FG1 if you have the DLC, FGR2 if you don´t but have SF2E). Besides this, wich other Phantom units could/should be brought to bear (Without debilitating the already messed up scenario in Germany) to join the fighting?

 

By the USN, with all the naval Phantoms included in SF2, SF2V, and augmented in DLCs by the skinpack and F-4N, there are a few to choose from. Embarked, there were Phantoms in the Forrestals, of the wich we lack model...and since they were deployed elsewhere, and the war, i suggest leaving that out. However, what about some USN/ USMC Phantom detachments to either the carriers or NAS Keflavik? Anybody got info on wich units could have been deployed this way?

 

The USAF could have some ANG Phantom unit, maybe not in Keflavik (by now maybe a bit overcrowded) but perhaps on off map bases escorting...the B-52Ds that come with SF2V!! I remember an article from about 1982-3 in a magazine about B-52Ds used as conventional bombers from the UK against targets in Germany...those would have been great to hammer soviet airfields and almost unopposed soviet forces in Iceland, either from Thule or the UK, wouldn´t they?

 

There are many more possibilities, but i would say those mentioned are the most notabel

 

By the Soviet side:

 

Other than the Vampyre incercepts or the Alpha Strikes against the Soviet groups, the campaign gets kind of unchallenging by the lack of enemy SAMs on the ground. While it is doubtful that an integrated air defence network could have been deployed so fast, including SA-6s and the like, i thought it could be a great addition...and quite logical measure, that the Russians have some SA-8s airborne to the island for defending the airfields. It keeps the operations interesting as MiGs alone may be not enough opposition, so i changed their role from MOBILE_SAM to MOBILE_AAA...feels much better

 

 

 

Any further ideas?

[arthur666]

I put one together a while back for my personal use, very similar to what you're describing. I can attach the data.ini after I get home, if you want to have a look at what i did.

 

I like your idea of adding more SA-8 to the mix. What do you edit to make these show up more?

 

For B-52's, It's probably better to use the 3rd party ones because they:

 

a. Look better and have non-SEA camo

 

b. Fly level

 

c. Have a better ECM suite to deal with Floggers and the like.

Edited January 9, 2013 by arthur666

[macelena]

For SA-8s ,just extract their data inis from the objectdata001cat and change the line:

 

GroundObjectRole=MOBILE_SAM (Appears sometimes covering tanks)

for

GroundObjectRole=MOBILE_AAA (Appears scattered just like ZSUs)

 

 

About the B-52s, the article i saw had them in SEA camo as late as 1982, and in my install they fly ok, maybe because i had to keep it quite unmodded. About dealing with floggers, there are few things wich can bring one of those mommas down, but it would be better. The way the article i read talked about them was like they were outdated, expensive demolition bomb trucks relegated to making ArcLight style parking lots.

[+CrazyhorseB34]

http://www.gonavy.jp/index.html

[arthur666]

For SA-8s ,just extract their data inis from the objectdata001cat and change the line:

 

GroundObjectRole=MOBILE_SAM (Appears sometimes covering tanks)

for

GroundObjectRole=MOBILE_AAA (Appears scattered just like ZSUs)

 

 

Oh, I see. Thanks.

 

So if I do this, will they mix in with Shilkas, not replace them completely, and will they still cover tanks?

[macelena]

http://www.gonavy.jp/index.html

 

Thanks, already did that for CVW-11, all that remains to know is the surface escort.

 

 

Oh, I see. Thanks.

 

So if I do this, will they mix in with Shilkas, not replace them completely, and will they still cover tanks?

 

They should be like Shilkas, both covering tanks plus defending airfields and scattered in AAA spots, but not replace them completely

Edited January 9, 2013 by macelena

[+daddyairplanes]

macelena, i believe Forrestalls Phantoms were J's until 80/81. at least VF-74 was and they stayed on the FID until the end and only used S's on their last cruise in 83.......

as it was the S came out in 78, most went to Marine units first, some of whom were stil flying B's!

[Wrench]

is someone forgetting HOW SAM batteries work????

 

Leave the SA-6s alone ...they have to be laid out around their respective radars, just like any other SAM battery. Doing as mobile AAA will negate their effectiveness or completely shut them down. They'll just sit there like big dumb blind yahoos, and do nothing.

 

the 6s are NOT like SA-8, that are integrated into the vehicle with search/track/ radars and the launcher. That why SA-8s can be classed as Mobile_AAA (in fact, someone a few years ago actually fixed the SA-8s .. might want to check the SF2 Objects downloads. that mod allows you 2 kinds of 8 - one as Mobile_AAA, and the stock version as Mobile_SAM)

Edited January 9, 2013 by Wrench

[macelena]

macelena, i believe Forrestalls Phantoms were J's until 80/81. at least VF-74 was and they stayed on the FID until the end and only used S's on their last cruise in 83.......

as it was the S came out in 78, most went to Marine units first, some of whom were stil flying B's!

 

Yeah, it is cool to see that Phantoms were still around at the time. In fact, i used "someone´s" F-4J_74 and it was cool. I had to remove almost every mod, but i still fly stock F-4Js in those years, thanks to AWG-10, ECM and such it is the best Phantom variant ingame

 

is someone forgetting HOW SAM batteries work????

 

Leave the SA-6s alone ...they have to be laid out around their respective radars, just like any other SAM battery. Doing as mobile AAA will negate their effectiveness or completely shut them down. They'll just sit there like big dumb blind yahoos, and do nothing.

 

the 6s are NOT like SA-8, that are integrated into the vehicle with search/track/ radars and the launcher. That why SA-8s can be classed as Mobile_AAA (in fact, someone a few years ago actually fixed the SA-8s .. might want to check the SF2 Objects downloads. that mod allows you 2 kinds of 8 - one as Mobile_AAA, and the stock version as Mobile_SAM)

 

I never mess with any other SAMs. In fact, it would be great if there was some feature in the mission editor to deploy a full battery with proper radar and such, since i feel sometimes SAM presence is scarce to null, quite frustrating if it allows you to cruise all the way into Berlin and out without being even painted. Vietnam or Syria are not as troublesome for that, in fact try to fly a 1975 "Frequent Wind" mission over NV, and SA-6s will stomp anything. I couldn´t fly a F-4N out if i flew higher than 200-300 feet

 

On the other hand, i had no trouble with changing SA-8s role. In fact, now they pop up everywhere. No more boring target practice in strike missions for me, and they still appear in campaign CAS missions to mess with everything i fly into the battlefield. They are the maker in Widowmaker. I lost no Starfighter to MiGs, few to ground fire and crashing for low flight distractions, quite a bunch in stalls, but more to SA-8s than all other causes combined.

[+daddyairplanes]

Macelena, have a newer J with DECM as part of the lod courtesy of an English friend of this community's. slowly workin towards skinning and decalling it for release. probably released with the N and RF-4B (all using the fake pilot method). thanks for the mention on the _74 tho

[+CrazyhorseB34]

USS California (CGN 36) and USS Preble (DLG 46) in 1981.

 

Pic of 1983 America Battle Group

 

Edited January 10, 2013 by CrazyhorseB34

[+ojcar]

I think you can add some Tu-128s acting as bomber escorts (a strange idea, because they are interceptors). They have long range and while you are flying straight firing your missiles they can be a nasty surprise from time to time.....

[macelena]

USS California (CGN 36) and USS Preble (DLG 46) in 1981.

 

Pic of 1983 America Battle Group

 

 

Thanks a lot! Nice to see we have California. About the Belknap class, well, we could use California as stand-in, and Kittiies for Forrestals

 

I think you can add some Tu-128s acting as bomber escorts (a strange idea, because they are interceptors). They have long range and while you are flying straight firing your missiles they can be a nasty surprise from time to time.....

 

It could work, but the idea is to make a few ini edits to work with mostly stock stuff. May be used as a template for a modded install, but i mean to consider something quite light in terms of mods.

[+daddyairplanes]

well theres a mean suprise for the morning. thought we had Forrestals that were not at that other site................

Tu-128 would be a good realistic addition for the scenario, even tho it came from Harpoon and not RL. most AF's had their bomber mafia that said they would get thru w/o escort. we even had it too at CA but Dave went over to DCS.....

Edited January 10, 2013 by daddyairplanes

[jeanba]

Hello

 

I nearly finished a SF2E 1980 campaign.

It is basically a Nato5 1979 campaign with upgraded and new aircraft / units :

Alphajet

Draken (Danish)

Mirage IIIC, 5F, F1C

[jeanba]

(continued)

It works quite well as is but I need to upgrade ground forces and WP forces (I only added the Mig17 Jabo).

 

Any idea of a significant improvement there between 1979 and 1980 ?

[macelena]

well theres a mean suprise for the morning. thought we had Forrestals that were not at that other site................

Tu-128 would be a good realistic addition for the scenario, even tho it came from Harpoon and not RL. most AF's had their bomber mafia that said they would get thru w/o escort. we even had it too at CA but Dave went over to DCS.....

 

Yeah, he was the last we expected to defect to the russians lol

 

Hello

 

I nearly finished a SF2E 1980 campaign.

It is basically a Nato5 1979 campaign with upgraded and new aircraft / units :

Alphajet

Draken (Danish)

Mirage IIIC, 5F, F1C

(continued)

It works quite well as is but I need to upgrade ground forces and WP forces (I only added the Mig17 Jabo).

 

Any idea of a significant improvement there between 1979 and 1980 ?

 

If you don´t want to use a heavily modded install, i would say Foxbats and variable geometry wing Fitters. If you don´t mind the HD, go for Nato Fighters, maybe the best implement available together with campaign specific mods such as ODS

[jeanba]

My campiagn is a variant of Nato fighter 5 79 campaign I somewhat "customized"

Edited January 10, 2013 by jeanba

[macelena]

Then i think it will be OK as far as it represents what was available at the era

[macelena]

Well, i´ve been trying out the F-4N in campaign with an USMC squadron in NAS Keflavik, However, the squadron happens to be on the other side of the world in RL (VMFA-323, deployed aboard Coral Sea) and other Marine Phantom squadrons were either West Coast (VMFAs 314 and 531) or flew F-4Js (wich are not a bad idea, thinking on Shamrocks)

 

However, while trying the F-4N i noticed something: Its RWR doesn´t pick MiG-23s, nor SA-6s, by the way. Wouldn´t it make sense? Even F--4J does pick them

[+daddyairplanes]

no it doesn't. esp since the rwr upgrade it got was the same as what the J's got. the longer DECM fairings on the intakes are for the same gear, just needed to be longer to reach the electrical connections on the B. sounds like ini edit time to me

[Icarus999]

However, while trying the F-4N i noticed something: Its RWR doesn´t pick MiG-23s, nor SA-6s, by the way. Wouldn´t it make sense? Even F--4J does pick them

 

I bet that's because there is no entry for those radars in your f-4N's RWR file.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Icarus999

[+daddyairplanes]

Shouldnt be the case icarus, those two mentioned are stock. another problem i heard mentioned (on the release thread for the N over at TW) is lack of A2G radar. Marines still would have been using the N to haul iron, even if the Navy was relegating it back to fleet air defense for the smaller carriers at that point. thats one DLC that seems to need patching bad, with of course the biggest gripe (and why i havent bought it yet) being the lack of slotted stabs.

 

if i had it i would probably find the relevant lines in the J's avionics ini and copy over to the N's. but thats me.......

[macelena]

Yep, it does require editing provisionally, but it must be patched. Other than that, it is just a B with DECM fairings and flares.

 

About the A-G radar, i have no idea if they had it. No upgrade is mentioned on that, and B radars were AA only and still operated pounding mud. The lack of slotted stabs however is a bleeding mismatch, given the evidence and info on that. However, i wonder if there is any possibility of solving the trouble of the dropping ailerons thru ini edits, i think the animation must be coded into the model.

 

I keep trying out the Phantom in that scenario. I don´t know how much slotted stabs affect this, but Js seems to recover from stalls much better than other F-4s...and as i was told, i don´t use the flaps on stalls. Really starting to feel how better the J is than other Phantoms. While unslatted, it handles like a boss and radar is much better than anything but teen generation fighters. Loadout edits for properly weaponry in the late 70s are needed too. So far i put AIM-7Fs and AIM-9Hs, if they would have been limited to AIM-7E2s or would have used AIM-9Ls, feel free to tell me, i´ll change the inis to reflect that.

[+daddyairplanes]

Limas were intro'd in 78. J, N, and P model 'Winders thru the 70s.

also the original B was equipped for LABS delivery, so i dont see why the radar wouldn't have an a2g mode. still huntin that answer down.....

but much agreed about the N. w/o slotted stabs might as well stay with Storms and just add the DECM via fake pilot.......