Polish F-16s

[DoctorWho 106]

Basing on my own observations on various forums etc. I can say that most people in Poland think that Vipers are the worst crap our AF could ever possibly buy. Many of these people don't know much about aviation but they are constantly whining about this. What do you think? It's obvious that there are more advanced fighters than the Block 52+ Viper but not everyone can afford them. And as far as I know, there have been no major problems during the Vipers' service in Polish AF in these last few years.

Edited June 26, 2013 by DoctorWho

[SFP1Ace 33]

Sure, eurofighter or rafale are more potent but also more expensive. I think that out of the 3 competitors (Grippen C/D, Mirage 2000-5 & F-16 C/D B52+) VIper was the best fighter overall, the most versatile one and with the formidable A-A capabilities (APG-68 V9 radar + AMRAAMS 120C-5 etc.).  F-16 was the best option Poland could afford, back in 2003 IMHO.

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Think about this. Who would you use them against alone? I seem to remember that our F-16's are the USAF's most deployed and used aircraft so tell me, what's the fuss? Poland has a pretty snazzy looking air force now. Should be proud. At any rate, F-16 = F-35A in future. Rafale = Rafale in future.

[DoctorWho 106]

I'm not complaining, not at all. I know that Vipers are still very effective and versatile fighters. I'm only talking about others' complaining. From people's opinions I can conclude, that the worst thing about F-16s is that they are... american! Many people believe, that buying AMERICAN JUNK means nothing more than LICKING BOOTS of these effing AMERICAN JEWS! I don't have to tell you how dumb this opinion seems to be but that's what people say. Maybe they would prefer Gripens with their poor combat capability? Or more MiGs?

[SFP1Ace 33]

I wouldn't worry about some backward-minded Polish trolls...The only opinion that matters is that of Polish Viper drivers and I haven't heard THEM complaining!

[kosmo92 209]

In 2015-2017 Poland propably replace Su 22 and buy new F-16 propably block 60.

[+Gepard 11,289]

The Viper is a good choice for Poland. Its fits perfectly for a country of that size. Poland has no real need for high end fighters like a F-22 or F-35 or Su-35.

The Viper is a good workhorse. Be happy with it.

[JediMaster 451]

I'm not complaining, not at all. I know that Vipers are still very effective and versatile fighters. I'm only talking about others' complaining. From people's opinions I can conclude, that the worst thing about F-16s is that they are... american! Many people believe, that buying AMERICAN JUNK means nothing more than LICKING BOOTS of these effing AMERICAN JEWS! I don't have to tell you how dumb this opinion seems to be but that's what people say. Maybe they would prefer Gripens with their poor combat capability? Or more MiGs?

 

Nice to see there that, despite everything that happened, some Poles still think like Hitler, their Great Liberator.

 

I don't think Gripens are worse, though. They're pretty much equivalent in many ways. I can't see MiGs being a top pick, though.

[MigBuster 2,884]

US makes the best combat aircraft in my opinion - if you want quality you have the best - and a proven combat record with the F-16 most other platforms can't boast about.  It may be the concept that the EF/Rafale/Gripen are all based on but its still pretty capable.

[SFP1Ace 33]

Nice to see there that, despite everything that happened, some Poles still think like Hitler, their Great Liberator.

 

I don't think Gripens are worse, though. They're pretty much equivalent in many ways. I can't see MiGs being a top pick, though.

 

Morons are everywhere...Back in 2006, one of the so called leaders of the far far faaaar rightist "national" movement published a "book" titled "How I fell in love with Adolf Hitler" . Oh irony....

 

I believe that Grippen C/D has worse radar, range and thrust to weight ratio than F-16 C/D 52+ but I can be wrong about it.

Edited June 27, 2013 by SFP1Ace

[JediMaster 451]

The range might be less, but that's greatly dependent on tanks and refueling, something pretty much standard now. So it's nothing major.

I think the T/W ratio might be better, the Gripen is lighter but also has a smaller engine, but it's roughly the same.

Don't know exactly about the radar, although I think the Blk 52 is indeed a bit better. As I said though, they're roughly equivalent.

 

Now if Poland had some SPECIFIC requirements as far as unrefueled range or radar capability then it's possible the Gripen didn't make the cut based on that, but they're roughly capable of the same missions.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Yes fairly similar on t/w and range on internal fuel

 

F-16C B50 

 

Max USL thrust = 29,500 lbs

 

T/W

Min GW (21,000 lbs)  = 1.40 (no fuel)

Max TOW (42,000 lbs) = 0.70

 

Internal Fuel = 1073 US Gal

 

Wing Loading (at Min GW) = ~49 lbs sqft (with tail lift)

 

 

 

 

 

JAS-39C Gripen (Wiki figures)

 

Max USL thrust = 18,100 lbs

 

T/W

Min GW (15,000 lbs)  = 1.21 (no fuel)

Max TOW (31,000 lbs) = 0.58

 

 

Internal Fuel = figure varies from 795 - 1122 US Gal 

 

Wing Loading (at Min GW) = ~46 lbs sqft (canard effect not known)

 

 

 

 

There are already F-16 AESA radars available from Grumman SABR and Raytheon RACR etc that can give it a radar comparable with the Gripen (As well as the AN/APG-80 in the Block 60)

 

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4726.html

Edited June 28, 2013 by MigBuster

[Nesher 628]

if they the whine about the Vipers, who said they wouldn't have whined with other aircrafts bought by the Polish AF?

MigBuster said the most right thing about the subject, the US makes the best combat jets with proven battle experience.. none like the others with all due respect to the other a\c manufacturers

 

about the Hitler thing, people are dumb... nothing to worry about unless the try to revive his ideas!

[+ST0RM 145]

 

LICKING BOOTS of these effing AMERICAN JEWS!

Does anyone else find this comment ironic coming from Poland? A place where untold numbers of Jews were killed in camps?!?!

 

I'm curious as to exactly what comments were made about the F-16. The vague comments you've made really dont say anything specific to give us a reference.

 

The Eurofighter, Rafale, Super Hornet and Gripen were considered but lost. Mostly likely due to cost, but also based upon an agreement to build a new base in Poland for USAF F-16s to be stationed and cooperate with the Polish AF. I had some friends in Spangdahlem that were told that their units would move to Poland at a later date when Spang shut down. Access and to ranges and free airspace being one of the more vocal complaints. Obviously this hasnt happened yet, but I did read that the plan was still being pushed along.

 

-ST0RM

(not an effing American Jew)

[SFP1Ace 33]

 

 

Does anyone else find this comment ironic coming from Poland? A place where untold numbers of Jews were killed in camps?!?!

 

I'm curious as to exactly what comments were made about the F-16. The vague comments you've made really dont say anything specific to give us a reference.

 

The Eurofighter, Rafale, Super Hornet and Gripen were considered but lost. Mostly likely due to cost, but also based upon an agreement to build a new base in Poland for USAF F-16s to be stationed and cooperate with the Polish AF. I had some friends in Spangdahlem that were told that their units would move to Poland at a later date when Spang shut down. Access and to ranges and free airspace being one of the more vocal complaints. Obviously this hasnt happened yet, but I did read that the plan was still being pushed along.

 

-ST0RM

(not an effing American Jew)

We Poles are a strange nation, I'll tell you that. We're constantly haunted by our troubled history, invasions, partitions, genocide you name it...And our politicians won't let us to put the past in the past and move on.

 

I too don't know specific posts that DW was complaining about, but if you dig deep enough you'll prone to find some malcontents ALWAYS, EVERYWHERE.

 

IMHO F-16's won the competition because they were the most versatile & cost effective PLUS the Americans offered the biggest OFFSET (the last one is a FACT $$$$$ :D ).

 

As for the "effin' American Jews - antisemitism was strong in Poland before ww2, we've had one the biggest Jewish population in the world (second after Soviet Union perhaps): 3-4 mln polish Jews. This wikipedia article is a good read if your interested:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_Poland

 

Nowadays we barely have any "Older Brothers" left in Poland (not more than a couple of tens of thousands) but the antisemitism rears it's ugly head every now and then, here and there....

Edited July 3, 2013 by SFP1Ace

[Derk 265]

Antisemitism and the F16, what a great thing to judge an airplane....Did any of those retarded idiots mention what other plane would be acceptable in their opinion ? A re-engined  Me 262 with radar perhaps or something from Iran ? All fine anti semitic or Islamic planes without anything Jewish , what a wonderful world it would be.....

Anyway, the Royal Semitic Netherlands Airforce is flying F 16 J's (for Jewish of course) since 1979 and it is doing fine, getting regular updates, but getting long in the teeth, and a probable replacement will be (you guessed it)  the F 35J... (just read that in Jewsweek) :biggrin:  And Stary, I'm with you !!!!!!!!

[SFP1Ace 33]

Like I said earlier Derk, that was probably one or two idiots/skinheads posting dissing sh!t about F-16 on some polish military forums that got DoctorWho so upset in the very first place. It's certainly not a prevailing opinion among polish internet users and it all was made much bigger deal than it really is/was.

 

F-16 is a great piece of hardware and polish pilots are loving it!

 

I hope that the replacement for our obsolete Su-22s (32 of them me thinks) will be some more falcons either C/D+ or E/F

 

Then further down the road we could replace MiG-29s  with Silent Eagles or Horny Hornets (denavalised) ;]

Edited July 3, 2013 by SFP1Ace

[Stratos 3,188]

F-16 = F-35A in future.

Oh my God, a grounded air force...

 

Sorry only joking.