Loosing Vietnam war. Calling for help!

[Rends 166]

Guys,

Got the Vietnam version a couple of days ago and it feels so different then Europe or NA.

First i don't know that much about the Vietnam war. Sure i've watched Platoon or Full Metal Jacket in the past.

I know what Vietkongs are or Napalm but not much about the history. I'm currently watching a 12 part documentation on YT to learn more about it.

But back to SF2. I flew 5 mission and got killed 4 times. I survived one but that was the carrier landing mission without enemy contact.

In the first mission flying a Phantom i tried to go infight with a Mig17. Even with afterburner i ran into stall in horizontal turns and it ended beeing shot few minutes later. The Phantom turned like a brick.

Learned from the first i tried a more boom and zoom tactic with vertical turns in the second mission. That worked better but all 4 Sidewinders went into Nirvana. Noone tracked a Mig. Got a lucky shot with the cannon but was shot by another moments later.

In the third mission i tried to use the Sparrow. In the meantime i found out that the Sidewinders need to be released at a very close range >2 mls. But how do you target and track an enemy with this poor Radar?

There is search and boresight radar only but the target aquire function button didn't seem to work . At least not for me. So i couldn't fire up a Sparrow. Not to mention that i was shot down minutes later again.

In the fourth mission i tried a bombing mission. Thought it would be easier. But i was wrong. I was able to hit an airfield fuel depot but the damn NVA AA guys shot my bird in pieces.

Any help would be usefull :-)

 

Rends

 

Btw Starys green hell looks great. And he is right. It's a damn hell!

[MigBuster 2,884]

Radar keys are the same so you may need to check your settings

 

 

http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2343

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_061a.html

 

 

Yeah dont turn with MiG-17s.......basic BFM really

Your radar wont look down in the early versions and the missiles are generally useless.........so fairly realistic if you dont know anything about it........although easier to employ them in this, especially AIM-4Ds!!

 

If you fly low and straight...prepare to get shot down a lot......attacking guns head on also very risky but can be done.

[+yakarov79 11,106]

Forget Phantom. Get Crusader for dogfight.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Guys,

Got the Vietnam version a couple of days ago and it feels so different then Europe or NA.

First i don't know that much about the Vietnam war. Sure i've watched Platoon or Full Metal Jacket in the past.

I know what Vietkongs are or Napalm but not much about the history. I'm currently watching a 12 part documentation on YT to learn more about it.

But back to SF2. I flew 5 mission and got killed 4 times. I survived one but that was the carrier landing mission without enemy contact.

In the first mission flying a Phantom i tried to go infight with a Mig17. Even with afterburner i ran into stall in horizontal turns and it ended beeing shot few minutes later. The Phantom turned like a brick.

Learned from the first i tried a more boom and zoom tactic with vertical turns in the second mission. That worked better but all 4 Sidewinders went into Nirvana. Noone tracked a Mig. Got a lucky shot with the cannon but was shot by another moments later.

In the third mission i tried to use the Sparrow. In the meantime i found out that the Sidewinders need to be released at a very close range >2 mls. But how do you target and track an enemy with this poor Radar?

There is search and boresight radar only but the target aquire function button didn't seem to work . At least not for me. So i couldn't fire up a Sparrow. Not to mention that i was shot down minutes later again.

In the fourth mission i tried a bombing mission. Thought it would be easier. But i was wrong. I was able to hit an airfield fuel depot but the damn NVA AA guys shot my bird in pieces.

Any help would be usefull :-)

 

Rends

 

Btw Starys green hell looks great. And he is right. It's a damn hell!

 

You are indeed doing it wrong.

 

- don't engage in turning fight. All the commies fighters are more nimble than anything in the U.S. arsenal. Well, the F-8, if properly flown, can do stuff. So can the A-4 but it's underpowered for air to air and not designed that way. 

 

- Contrary to historical reality, you don't have any RoE such as "no BVR missiles". So use your sparrows. Until 1967-68 when correct sidewinders are getting into action, they are the only real weapons for early Phantom II. So, no look-down/shot down, try to get in a proper position for a quality lock and shot. That means lower or same altitude as the target. And also check your key mapping. Set your radar to boresight when dogfighting for a quick sparrow launch (especially with latter, more agile versions). Sideminders B are pretty useless. Fire them in the ennemy's six, not against the ground nor against clouds or sun... and hope for the best. They have been really turned down and are pretty silly and unrealistic now.

D, E, and latter versions are proficient in combat. Too much, IMHO. As long as you're in the 6' and in the missile's enveloppe, it should work despite a few sillies and blank ones. Remember : you don't need any radar for them. 

 

As for air to ground... Well, good luck. The sheer amount of AAA makes it clear : wether you stay high, face SAMs and hit nothing with your bombs, or you try  going in the hard way. It's feasable, but : no straight line and very high speed are the key. Don't linger above targets and flew very, very low : most guns won't be able to aim properly if you are at somewhat 50ft. 

 

Edited September 30, 2015 by Emp_Palpatine

[yubba 70]

Flying the F-4,, I found to use the radar and sparrows at a stand off postion orbiting off shore and pick them off when you can use ground control and map to find enemies,,, for ground attacks fly low and fast I reset values in the radar were radar bombing is possible at low level get in get out ..

[BlitzGreek 34]

(A) You don't need your radar to fire the AIM-9 , it follows the heat signature of the enemy...if you are lucky...

(B)void firing it against the sun or near a friendly plane, it can easily track the wrong target, for AIM-7 early versions remember to stay at the same level as the enemy and keep him locked..

©In a phantom ..we do not dog fight..except with another phantom   keep your energy...shoot and run..I a'm sure you will enjoy it

Edited September 30, 2015 by BlitzGreek

[saisran 84]

In a Phantom,  when you see a commie at your Six. Point the stick down, hit the burners and run. You will never ever loose a Mig in a turn. Extend, ran a circuit, get altitude and only when possible do we re-engage.

[+1977Frenchie 1,038]

The Vietnam campaigns are the most challenging one's in my opinion. Further more if you installed the mods and everything...

 

The F-4 is not a dogfight aircraft as the others said. The trick in to shoot your sparrows as soon as you have a lock (and keep the lock as this missile need a lock to track target) and tell your wingies to engage air targets. As for the Aim-9, the B version is real shit (i don't mount them anymore as i have about 1 hit per 30 shoots). The D version is more reliable. The other thing to NEVER forget is not cutting your speed. Keep it fast because you can't engage Fresco or Fishbed with a Phantom in a dogfight, you will loose...

 

If you get caught in a dogfight with a Fresco, put the AB on and go low, VERY low like 50-100ft. There is great chance that he will egress from combat so you will be able to build speed and get away. Against a Fishbed, AB on, fly straight and hope for the best.

 

I flew many missions in these campaigns and love them, especially the one's flew with a A-1 over Hanoi :)

 

Personnaly, i tried a ''career'' with a pilot a while ago to see how long he would survive. He died on it's 86th mission over Vietnam when he crashed prior to trap on the carrier (stupid stall) :)

[Rends 166]

Thx guys.

Flew a single mission only today but was able to get 2 kills using Sparrows and 3 kills using Sidewinders.

And i made it home!

Thx for your tips!

Rends

[Rends 166]

One last question.

Where is the IFF indicator?

Last night my wingman died by aehm cough cough friendly fire.

[macelena 1,070]

There is none, wich is why sparrows weren´t used in Vietnam to full capacity. Unless you lower the HUD realism settings and padlock your target before firing

[charlielima 328]

When you're out of F-8s, you're out of fighters.

CL

[+1977Frenchie 1,038]

There is no IFF, but you can do Ctrl+R on your lock target to know what aircraft you will have locked. This will work if you have full HUD. Of course, if you use minimum HUD, you will know right away :)

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Another way is a minimal situationnal awareness and some analysis. Watch your radar (that would be the RIO's job in real life): where do the bogey comes from? Where is it going? With practice, you can easily see who's a baddy. If your are escorting to Hanoi and some blips are coming from the North or the West, they aren't friendly. 

Of course, that won't work as soon as close combat between two flights starts. 

[cougar_1979 37]

You've already seam to have got a grip on things, but if still in need for some Phantom tips. search out the DACT thread. There are some neat one on ones and mass furballs there in the Vietnam era. Some even without guns (NAVY Phantoms).

[Saavedra 5]

Some basic tips:

 

1- Use communications. Tactical control can tell you where the closest bandits are, and you can ask your wingmen to engage them on their own or cover you.

 

2- Sidewinders are for close shots from the rear. Until the Sidewinder L, most famous for its use in the Falklands, no Sidewinders can lock enemies from the front. Sideshots are tricky and I do not recommend them with any sort of missile.

 

3- Remember that accomplishing the mission is the most important thing here. If you are engaged in a dogfight after killing your target, why stay around?