French Indochina war

[+amariani]

Any french-indo-china campaigns/terrains in the works?

[+Nightshade/PR]

Nah Dawg,

I think they all ended after Dien Ben Phu

 

J/K

[+Geary]

Sounds interesting.  I would like to see this, too.

I did some French skins for some of the US prop planes I think they used, not sure though.  I don't know enough about that era.

Any idea what planes they used and what the skins looked like?

 

[+Nightshade/PR]

For a starter...........

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/04/22/french-air-war-over-indochina/

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/11/29/french-air-force-1946-1954-vietnam/

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2017/08/30/frances-indochina-expeditionary-force/

[+Geary]

Looks like enough for a start.

Now all we need are a lot of experts and artists.

[+Geary]

amariani,

What do you have in mind?

[kurdistan1]

I decided to work on it in past.but only ground attack/recon missions are available .for reason slow speed aircraft absolutely  we need to work on terrain and ground/sea objects . south china project campaign has similar terrain and OBJ

[Wrench]

Yawn

ya just need to rebuild the VietnamSEA map, making everything friendly (cities) then add "hidden" Viet Minh camps in the jungle.

[Wilches]

...and give a downgrade to the airfields to look much older than default ones.

[+amariani]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 11:29 PM, Geary said:

amariani,

What do you have in mind?

Need a playground for a French Hellcat!

[General PB]

well, just recently got back to sf2, just now gotten into modding it, but i am certainly willing to have a go at setting up the campaign.

any mod packs that we are working out of or using the base for the map and such?

i have no graphical skills so not going to be any help there unless you want stick figures?

[General PB]

well, i found an oob for the french on another forum, still doing some other basic research:

Corps Expéditionnaire Français en Extrême-Orient, CEFEO

tirailleur = Light Infantry
French Union forces in Indochina.

Airborne

Colonial Parachute Commando Demi-Brigade (SAS)
1st Parachute Demi-Brigade (SAS)
1st Parachute Chasseurs Regiment
2nd Colonial Parachute Commando Demi-Brigade
1st Colonial Parachute Battalion
2nd Colonial Parachute Battalion
3rd Colonial Parachute Battalion
5th Colonial Parachute Battalion
6th Colonial Parachute Battalion
7th Colonial Parachute Battalion
8th Colonial (Shock) Parachute Battalion
10th Dismounted Parachute Chasseurs Battalion
1st Foreign Legion Parachute Battalion
2nd Foreign Legion Parachute Battalion

Armor/Armored Cavalry

1st Armored Cavalry Regiment
4th Dragoon Regiment
5th Armored Cavalry Regiment
9th Dragoon Marche Regiment
8th Algerian Spahis Regiment
2nd Moroccan Spahis Regiment
5th Moroccan Spahis Regiment
6th Moroccan Spahis Regiment
Far East Spahis Marche Regiment
Far East Colonial Armored Regiment
1st Foreign Legion Cavalry Regiment
4th Dragoon Battalion
7th Squadron, 1st Moroccan Spahis Marche Regiment
1st Far East Independent Reconnaissance Squadron
2nd Far East Independent Reconnaissance Squadron
3rd Far East Independent Reconnaissance Squadron
4th Far East Independent Reconnaissance Squadron
5th Far East Independent Reconnaissance Squadron

Artillery

2nd Artillery Regiment
4th Colonial Artillery Regiment
10th Colonial Artillery Regiment
41st Colonial Artillery Regiment
69th African Artillery Regiment
Moroccan Colonial Artillery Regiment
Marche Battalion, 64th Artillery Regiment
Marche Battalion, 66th Artillery Regiment
1st Battalion, Far East Colonial Antiaircraft Regiment
1st Group, 35th Parachute Regiment (Light Artillery)
21st Aerial Observation Battalion
22nd Aerial Observation Battalion
23rd Aerial Observation Battalion
24th Aerial Observation Battalion
261st Antiaircraft Battalion
French East African Colonial Artillery Battalion
Levant Colonial Mountain Artillery Battalion
1st Central Annam Artillery Battalion
2nd Central Annam Artillery Battalion

Engineers

17th Engineer Battalion
22nd Engineer Battalion
26th Engineer Battalion
28th Legion Engineer Battalion
31st Engineer Battalion
61st Engineer Battalion
62nd Engineer Battalion
71st Engineer Battalion
72nd Engineer Battalion
73rd Engineer Battalion
75th Engineer Battalion
(61st Colonial Engineer Battalion
71st Colonial Engineer Battalion
72nd Colonial Engineer Battalion
73rd Colonial Engineer Battalion)
74th Colonial Engineer Battalion
76th Legion Engineer Battalion

Support

532nd Medical Transportation Company
Far Eastern Provisional Brigade's Colonial Service and Transportation Company
71st Traffic Control Company
73rd Traffic Control Company
503rd Transportation Battalion
515th Transportation Battalion
516th Transportation Battalion
519th Transportation Battalion
163eme Colonial Battalion of Transmissions

Infantry

Korea Regiment
1st Marche Battalion, 1st Colonial Infantry Regiment
1st Marche Battalion, 2nd Colonial Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 5th Colonial Infantry Regiment
6th Colonial Infantry Regiment
9th Colonial Infantry Regiment
11th Colonial Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 16th Colonial Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 19th Colonial Infantry Regiment
21st Colonial Infantry Regiment
22nd Colonial Infantry Regiment
23rd Colonial Infantry Regiment
43rd Colonial Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 35th Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 36th Infantry Regiment
1st Marche Battalion, 49th Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 110th Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 151st Infantry Regiment
13th Foreign Legion Demi-Brigade
2nd Foreign Legion Infantry Regiment
3rd Foreign Legion Infantry Regiment
5th Foreign Legion Infantry Regiment
Marche Battalion, 1st Foreign Legion Infantry Regiment
5th Battalion, 4th Foreign Legion Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion, 6th Foreign Legion Infantry Regiment

Algerians/Tunisians

1st Algerian Rifle (Tirailleurs) Regiment
2nd Algerian Rifle (Tirailleurs) Regiment
3rd Algerian Rifle (Tirailleurs) Regiment
7th Algerian Rifle (Tirailleurs) Regiment
22nd Algerian Rifle (Tirailleurs) Regiment
1st Marche Battalion, 6th Algerian Rifle Regiment
21st Algerian Rifle Battalion
22nd Algerian Rifle Battalion
23rd Algerian Rifle Battalion
25th Algerian Rifle Battalion
27th Algerian Rifle Battalion
205th Algerian Rifle Battalion
217th Algerian Rifle Battalion
4th Tunisian Rifle Regiment
1st African Light Infantry Battalion

Moroccans

Moroccan Colonial Rifle Regiment
1st Moroccan Rifle Regiment
2nd Moroccan Rifle Regiment
3rd Moroccan Rifle Regiment
4th Moroccan Rifle Regiment
5th Moroccan Rifle Regiment
6th Moroccan Rifle Regiment
8th Moroccan Rifle Regiment
Marche Battalion, 7th Moroccan Rifle Regiment
1st Marche Battalion, 8th Moroccan Rifle Regiment
1st Marche Battalion, 201st North African Pioneer Infantry Regiment
1st Moroccan Tabor Battalion
2nd Moroccan Tabor Battalion
3rd Moroccan Tabor Battalion
5th Moroccan Tabor Battalion
8th Moroccan Tabor Battalion
9th Moroccan Tabor Battalion
10th Moroccan Tabor Battalion
11th Moroccan Tabor Battalion
17th Moroccan Tabor Battalion
207th Moroccan Far East Rifle Marche Battalion
214th Moroccan Far East Battalion

Senegalese/Central Africans

Marche Battalion, 13th Senegalese Rifle Regiment
24th Senegalese Rifle Marche Regiment
26th Senegalese Rifle Marche Battalion
27th Senegalese Rifle Marche Battalion
28th Senegalese Rifle Marche Battalion
29th Senegalese Rifle Marche Battalion
30th Senegalese Rifle Marche Battalion
31st Senegalese Rifle Marche Battalion
32nd Senegalese Rifle Marche Battalion
104th Senegalese Battalion
4th Battalion, Chad Marche Regiment
1st French East African Marche Battalion (West?)
2nd French Central African Marche Battalion
3rd French East African Marche Battalion (West?)

Indochinese

1st Tonkin Rifle Regiment
Cambodian Composite Battalion
Marche Battalion, 4th Tonkin Rifle Regiment
Annam Battalion
Saigon-Cholon Garrison Battalion
1st Far East Marche Battalion
2nd Far East Marche Battalion
3rd Far East Marche Battalion
4th Far East Marche Battalion
5th Far East Marche Battalion
6th Far East Marche Battalion
7th Far East Marche Battalion
1st Indochina Marche Battalion
2nd Indochina Marche Battalion
3rd Indochina Marche Battalion

Muongs

1st Muong Battalion
2nd Muong Battalion

Thais

1st Thai Battalion
2nd Thai Battalion
3rd Thai Battalion

Laotians

1st Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
2nd Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
3rd Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
4th Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
5th Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
6th Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
7th Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
8th Laotian Chasseurs Battalion
Phnom Penh Garrison Battalion

Groupes Mobiles

GM 1 (N African)
GM 2 (N African/Paras)
GM 3 (N African/Senegalese)
GM 4 (BMI/FFL)
GM 5
GM 6 (Fought at DBP)
GM 7 (Vietnamese)
GM 8
GM 9 (Fought at DBP)
GM 10 (N African)
GM 11 (Vietnamese)
GM 14
GM 21 (Vietnamese)
GM 32 (Vietnamese)
GM 42 (Montagnard)
GM 51 (N African)
GM 100 (Korea Regiment)

The Groupes Mobiles are not an addition to the CEFEO TO&E. They are just regimental teams created out of the battalions listed above. The french combined different units into different GMs as the war went on.
The Groupes Mobiles had 3 infantry battalions assigned; one Colonial infantry, the other two were N African/ Central African/Vietnamese. Unit was motorized with usually a squadron of armor. Also a battalion of artillery.
The pure Vietnamese AVN units are noted.

 Vehicles

    Jeep
    Coventry Mk.I armored car
    Panhard EBR
    Panhard 178B
    M5A1 Stuart
    M24 Chaffee
    Chenillette Renault UE
    Hotchkiss H35 Light Tank
    AMX-12T prototype light tank
    AMX-13 light tank
    Batignolles-Chatillon Char 25T Medium tank
    Lorraine 40t Medium tank
    ARL-44 Heavy tank
    AMX-50 Heavy tank Prototype
    M36B2 Jackson
    LVT-4
    
    Independence-class light aircraft carrier

[General PB]

so still working on the basics, here is my dropbox for some of it, mostly pictures for now, have not shared my work-in-progress campaign and units just yet

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zn4maatjiu7qtfp/AADttCZVeA1p4pva_riV0TIDa?dl=0

[General PB]

took a look at the terrain editor for sf2, couldn't make it work so if the map needs more work, i will need to figure it out or have some of you guys with more experience help or do it.

as for the strategic nodes, they need a lot of work and still trying to figure out how they work and how the coordinate system works - there will need to be a lot of them and considering how the campaigns work (iirc) there may have to be more than one viet minh factions as they are very spread out all over the map.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzli6is4wrhc9vv/Ax01199.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fvdptdn3rhdx8e/vietnam.jpg?dl=0

so for the basic 46/full campaign, the French Base should be Hanoi and the campaign ends when it is captured, cambodia, laos and Annam(south vietnam) could be french allies to begin with - with a setup much like that found in the woi

[General PB]

just a few questions if anyone knows them?

Recon, APC and artillery... never seen them in the files as independent units, i guess they are not used for missions? should they be part of the ground units?

[General PB]

https://discord.gg/59GDmHG

made a discord group if anyone is interested in joining the mod making... ^^,

my plan for the next little while is to get the main campaign up and running, that being the 46  to 56(ish) campaign and maybe do a quick little 45-46 Operation Masterdom with mockup units from the base game(p-51s and t-34s) to test out how the strategic nodes work

Edited November 3, 2019 by General PB
didn't want to make a new post and spam

[General PB]

well, so far no joy on finding a good OOB for the Vietminh forces, have some maps that detail their control from 46 on wards so that is at least a somewhat good start...

so if any one of you have access to any form of OOB for the vietminh forces i would appreciate that quite a lot, if not, i will just have to apply a bit of fancy magic and creativity to it ^^,

[Wrench]

why would you even need to use the terrain editor? You're not changing the physical properties of the map. you only need to edit the targets ini, changing alignments (enemy to friendly) as is said way up on the  thread. Front lines will, of course, need redrawing, as will the location statements in the nations ini, as well as the allowed nations themselves. The "theatre name" and acutal name (as seen in the vietnamsea.ini) will also need change to "French Indo-China". This will, obviously, REQUIRE a new terrain folder "FIC" for example. It's just like build a new terrain, but with pre-existing stock items (well, I'm sure the airfields will need their building, and possibly even the runways, back-dated to late 1940s style structures. plenty of those around)

as to artillery, they have to be placed via the targets ini, and of course, added to the _types ini. Done this hundreds of times; it works trust me.

[General PB]

the reason i need to use the terrain editor is to be able to get reliable coordinates for strategic node/ points that are not already in the game(or in the cities list). Basically, the engine was designed for conventional warfare, Indochina and Vietnam where both heavily guerrilla and asymmetrical and to best  emulate that i think we will need a lot of nodes and a lot of small units from battalion size and upwards to be spread out over the map. This will help dilute french and Vietminh strength so that the ground conflict and ground interactions from all units can be intensified (in comparison to WOV where units are basically static) so that the campaign also wont just be the same few areas over and over again that are interacted with as that could lead to a very boring campaign.

my experience so far with terrain editing and everything else is very limited as I am very new to modding sf2 so your and everyone else's advice is very very much appreciated

in essence, i wanted the nodes to correlate to a map like this one:

or something like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejq0e51qqchwrja/txu-oclc-1092889-78334-8-70.jpg?dl=0

which have a lot of roads and trails which units can follow and a lot of cities to fight over

Edited November 7, 2019 by General PB

[Wrench]

the TFD* tool can give you the x/y coordinates. 0.0.0 is always the lower left corner, and goes up from there

 

* it's here someplace, I just don't remember the link

[General PB]

well, small progress, I have had a lot of fails... or First Attempts In Learning Stuff...  i think i got strategic node edits down in a separate mod, which showed me that i need to work with front lines, land and sea routes but the basic mod structure stuff is mostly down now, so have started to rework on the strategic nodes in Indochina after which the more intensive work on the other stuff can slowly begin after that...

 

[Wrench]

I'd hold off on doing ANYTHING until I have a workable, corrected terrain. TK's original VN-SEA is so fucked up and innaccurate; things aren't where they're supposed to be (as anyone that can read a map will see), things exist that never did, etc.. His version, I'd rate at less than 65% accurate. By the time I get done with it (it'll still take months...) it'll be closer to 90% - even given th 63% size, and the usual bug-a-boos of the 3W terrain engine.

What I can use, however, is some kind of chart that locates which regions (cities, villages, etc) are Viet Minh controlled. I've only found these 2 images

[Wrench]

just some in progress screen shots

saigon, with bien hoa (now moved to the correct spot) in the distance. tan son nuht is just off screen to the left

haiphong, unfortunatly NOT with all the rivers/streams. but much closer to Real Life (tm)

[General PB]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzli6is4wrhc9vv/Ax01199.jpg?dl=0

that is the best map i found for garrisons at 1946 start

with this one showing the major transportation routes;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejq0e51qqchwrja/txu-oclc-1092889-78334-8-70.jpg?dl=0

and this one for air bases though it is much later in 1970 iirc;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3jdmjyxbl3gj2q/txu-oclc-1092889-78335-8-70.jpg?dl=0

I also do have a 1:100.000 map of all of Indochina with airports which you can also get from here;

https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/indochina_and_thailand/

and just saying, it is awesome that you are redoing the map, i very much look forward to seeing it and flying over it ^^,

i have plenty of things i can do in the mean time and fixing the strat nodes position is fortunately easy to "redo"

Edited November 24, 2019 by General PB

[Wrench]

I thank you for the assistance; you're going to have a big part in this, methinks.

I've got access to really accurate maps, from the US Army Corps of Engineers, and -get this totally lucked out-- they're from 1954.

Once I get everything repositioned/corrected, then each city will have to be rebuilt from scratch (especially Hanoi, Haiphong, Saigon, and many others.) I still haven't "fixed" on the level of detail yet -- obviously the rail system (at least in the cities), ports. Airfields have to have back-dated structures (ww2 type). Some airfields will still be the "stock concrete" runways, as there really isn't much choice. Others will be using the Runway 3 & Runway 2s. Obviously, there will be airfields in Viet Minh territory, but as they have no air force...????

Below is a sample, of the Hanoi region (also telling me I got the lake to the NW slightly "off", but the 3w terrain engine.....mmmmmm)