FM Guru needed!!

[Wrench 9,847]

Russ has given me the honor of bringing the imported FSX Connstellations (WV-2/EC-121K, RC-121D, and L-1049 airliner) into the SF2 world. 

Skins and decals are nearly done but I'm having an issue with the FM. All 3 aircraft share the same one, and each has a 1-1.5 degree per second drift to the right, like they're out of trim or something. On autopilot, they'll track true. But on manual flight or in wing leveler mode, they drift. I've gone line-by-line in the data ini, checking for the obvious mismatches (wings, tail, fins, engines) and I can't find anything. Admitedly, I'm no expert on such things.

So, I'm reaching out to those of you 'in the know' to lend a hand and see if we can't figure this out. Even though these would be more of eye candy then actual use (you WANT to fly around for 16 hours??? LOL!!), but it would be nice for those that want to. At the very least, the military versions will appear in missions in their Naval Search and AEW tasking

TIA!!

[+Cliff7600 1,148]

1 hour ago, Wrench said:

But on manual flight or in wing leveler mode, they drift. I've gone line-by-line in the data ini, checking for the obvious mismatches (wings, tail, fins, engines) and I can't find anything.

No guru here but I saw that before.

If it's not in the data.ini file it might be the 3D model itself (remember the Impala).

Some mesh may not be exactly symmetrical between left and right, so the engine game makes fly a dissymetric plane, hence the drift.
That can be checked by Mue's LOD viewer, comparing MinMax extent values between a part on a side and its counterpart on the other side.
If the 3D model is right that should be the same values (-10.0 on the left and 10.0 on the right for example)
And it could be the fuselage or nose, if they're not exactly symmetrical (min X value -2.5, max X value must be 2.5)

------------------------ or ---------------------------

Another serious possibility :

MomentOfInertia=0.05  (whatever the value)

in the engine part of the data.ini
Change to 0.0 for all engines to check.

[+russouk2004 6,958]

models fine ...I tested using the engines of stock c47 to test and it flies fine...

probably a typo some where or such

[+guuruu 5,909]

Well ... publish DATA.INI. More people checking means higher probability to find a bug ;-)

[Gatling20 753]

I have seen something like that drifting to one side a while back - check the Ymac= numbers for each lift surface. They have to be negative for the left wing components and stabilizers, and positive for those on the right side.

It is easy to miss a minus sign  (Ymac=-6.65 for the left wing of the stock B-52, for example, and Ymac=6.65 for the right wing)

[Wrench 9,847]

I think I got it ... it was the rudders & fins! Now it flys straight

thanks guys!

now, I just have to have Russ fix the nose wheels...they look funny

[Svetlin 545]

Out of curiosity, what is wrong with the nose wheels, Wrench? These look correct to me on your screenshot above.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Svetlin

[Wilches 1,172]

Wrench, this guy is damm right!!! The wheels were slanted for real!!!

[Svetlin 545]

I would say they had to do it that way for better/easier steering while taxing. It is called positive wheel/tyre camber. Since the nose gear is angled so much forward, when you turn right for example, the left tyre would either entirely loose contact with the ground, or only a narrow part of its working surface would remain in contact. Respectively when you turn left, same thing would happen with the right tyre. The positive camber helps in that during a turn the inside wheel/tyre would actually deform, allowing a wider surface to be in contact with the ground and the outside wheel instead of being lifted from the ground or have very narrow touch with it, would actually have a normal width working surface touching the ground. In other words, the positive camber in this case means more grip for the nose wheels and hence better steering especially at higher speed.

[+russouk2004 6,958]

yep normal straight wheels would have larger contact area and wobble like hell hence canted inwards...smaller area less wobble or steer probs...

more or less same reason why cars have differentials...

Edited August 14, 2020 by russouk2004

[Wrench 9,847]

LOL! and you're saying this to the ex-car mechanic (-cough- excuse me, automotive repair technician!!)

There is a problem with the steering linkage on all 3 however...

do both sides need linking through the axle? (broken tie-rod??  )

[+russouk2004 6,958]

No...right wheel uses a ghost mesh to use...was working when sent you it lol...

make sure this is same...

fuselage entries...

SystemName[001]=Airvents
SystemName[002]=NoseGear
SystemName[003]=NoseGear2
SystemName[004]=LandingLight1
SystemName[005]=LandingLight2
SystemName[006]=BottomRedLight
SystemName[007]=TopRedLight
SystemName[008]=TailHook
SystemName[009]=FuseFuelCell1
SystemName[010]=FuseFuelCell2

 

 

[NoseGear]
SystemType=LANDING_GEAR
Retractable=TRUE
DeployTime=6.0
DragArea=0.300
AnimationID=1
HideGearNode=FALSE
ModelNodeName=Nosegearstrut
ShockAnimationID=2
ShockStroke=0.158
SpringFactor=0.0
DampingFactor=5.0
WheelNodeName=NoseTyre01
RotationAxis=X-Axis
RollingRadius=0.438
CastoringWheel=TRUE
CastoringNodeName=steering
Steerable=TRUE
MaxSteeringSpeed=41.15
Locking=FALSE
MaxSteeringAngle=75.0
InputName=YAW_CONTROL
ControlRate=1.0
HasBrakes=FALSE
RollingCoefficient=0.05
MaxDeploySpeed=154.3
CompressGearOnRetraction=FALSE
MaxLoadFactor=3.0

[NoseGear2]
SystemType=LANDING_GEAR
Retractable=TRUE
DeployTime=6.0
DragArea=0.300
AnimationID=1
HideGearNode=FALSE
ModelNodeName=Nosegearstrut2
ShockAnimationID=2
ShockStroke=0.158
SpringFactor=0.0
DampingFactor=5.0
WheelNodeName=NoseTyre02
RotationAxis=X-Axis
RollingRadius=0.460
CastoringWheel=TRUE
CastoringNodeName=steering
Steerable=TRUE
MaxSteeringSpeed=41.15
Locking=FALSE
MaxSteeringAngle=75.0
InputName=YAW_CONTROL
ControlRate=1.0
HasBrakes=FALSE
RollingCoefficient=0.05
MaxDeploySpeed=154.3
CompressGearOnRetraction=FALSE
MaxLoadFactor=3.0
//ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE

Edited August 14, 2020 by russouk2004

[+russouk2004 6,958]

Whatever you did...undo it lol...this is the original coonie pack you sent....gears fine and no pull at all...odd eh...oops connie  lmao

Edited August 14, 2020 by russouk2004

[Wrench 9,847]

I have no idea!!! Even using the old data ini from the TWA Connie, it's still doing it. I'm lost!!

[+russouk2004 6,958]

Sent data and lod pm..from the one you sent me...works fine here m8..

[Wrench 9,847]

i'll zip up all 3 and get them to you as soon as I can

[+mue 715]

On 13.8.2020 at 10:34 PM, Cliff7600 said:

If it's not in the data.ini file it might be the 3D model itself (remember the Impala).

I only know about two "domains", where the 3D model has an impact on the FM:

1. Ground handling depends on position of the 3D model' gear nodes.
2. Mass balance change by loadout depends on position of the weapon station nodes (e.g. pylon, ...)

Are there any further "domains", where the 3D model can influence the FM?

[+Cliff7600 1,148]

43 minutes ago, mue said:

Are there any further "domains", where the 3D model can influence the FM?

I think so, because there's plenty of non-symmetrical model I tried to make go straight without success.
MinMaxExtent editing won't solve all the issues, especially when the dissymetry is between left/right control surfaces.

In hard mode flying.

And if I'm wrong that would be great news ^^

[+russouk2004 6,958]

just tested the 3 connies u sent.as is......on runway powered up 100%,took off brakes and rolled straight ....took off fine...seemed to fly straight !hands off"....t as far as I can see....a tad wander to stbd on the RC-121D  wheels etc all fine though....

[Wilches 1,172]

Great news! Will the early short nose be released?

[Wrench 9,847]

Only if Russ builds one !!!  (do we even NEED one??)

===

but what of the nose wheel steering issue?

one of the good things, is IF people allow the plane to be used CORRECTLY --that NOT player flown, most issues simply won't show up. The game makes no provision for player usabel AWACs, bombers and tranports. As I've said in readme for over 15 years -- leave them for the AI

[+russouk2004 6,958]

no plans to do others....

kev dunno what ur doing but ive no issua at all with the connies u sent they all work fine here...

[Wilches 1,172]

Ok. Not an "off-topic" but as Wrench said TRANSPORT, this is really works in the game? I mean, flying from base to base in a friendly airspace? I don't think it so, but I can be wrong.

[Wrench 9,847]

and the nose wheels?? Really??? I can't be hallucinating that badly .... i was too young to take acid in the 60s (well, or ever!)

==

as to "transport missions", I've only seen it ONE time, in the original SFP1 Desert campaign. Must have been around 2005-ish. My flight of phantoms was getting ready to take off, and a C-130 (the stock 3w one) had just departed.