Do335

Handling quality thing on the 6-3 is solved, the problem was actually not over pitch but over banking. I think the slatted wing aeros hit the really really sweet spot of handling there including roll sensitivity, and changing one value without changing the others affected that. So it was merely a problem of updating the rest of the wing aero datas in line with the increased wing area. I have done more research though. According to flight manual and other RL docs, the slats on the A/E early sabres would NOT open above mach .65, whatsoever. Therefore there was a lift deficit at high alt high mach maneuvering and prompted the 6-3 config to introduce vortex lift. The mach limit on slat opening seems to be another thing the TW FM engine could not model... (Highlift devices don't have maxdeployspeed callouts or anything like that) But if anyone has ideas to implement it that'd be great. (Another search result is max deflection angles on all the control surfaces. The stabs and elevator deflection angles of the tail unit is something i've been looking for for like forever. Apparently the angles are huge, -10/6 deg on the stabs and -20.9/8.3 deg on the elevs. With these kinda angles the F-30 go into flat spins at 130-140kts with pitch oscillation so not good... more tuning.) http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/069271.pdf

Maybe CAP2 dev team can implement it on their harrier.

Happy 'holiday' WBS Loved that anime to bits

An interview. It is looking great and ticks a lotta boxes there.

aha more flight sim politics eh? This is like a monthly period thread. So for this month's period I'll drop this bomb: Amen to this. It is a problem for every community project no matter big or small. The erosion to stability is huge. And you have no way to fix it, because --> it is locked yet again in the code. Just not TK's code. But someone else's. And bear in mind, this someone else, he is NOT obligated to do your tech support, he is NOT obligated to patch his bugs, because you are NOT his customer. He can just troll you to GTFO, or just ignores everything, if he pleases, or introduce a multitude of bugs and disappear forever, because simple: beggars can't be choosers. So, to the "uninitiated" newbie players in the field of free community source code modding, when you dream up of some saint of a coder is gonna come and drop free pies from the sky (pffffft...), keep in mind that nothing is really free. More importantly, the freebies you get depend on who issues them. Some people are very talented and dedicated, and you get all those success stories about commercially dead sims getting a second and better life. But there're also just ppl that don't have much dedication and just like to mess around, make a half-assed code mod etc and disappears. Now a question bomb: what kind will SF get, the former, or the latter??? PS What's my point? If wanna try a new sim that is still being developed, look elsewhere! If you wanna try mods, stay! But the source code while it doesn't progress, is happily stable, and it is totally fine to stay that way. Some day when windows12 or something gets out and everybody moves on from incompatibility issues etc, that is fine. There are/will be other sims/games.

I'm still tuning them.

Thanks for the report Nicholas Bell. big furballs are very fun, exciting and sometimes hair raising and why I like the 50s as well! If you get any chance/time, it'd be great to try the F-86E-10/F-10 and see if they are a tad better gunnery platform wise, in your hands. I still can't quite put my finger on it, but no matter how i adjusted the numbers, the E-10/F-10 just gives me more precision in fine aiming. Perhaps it was also a problem on the real aircraft and why they put the extended 12inch on the F-40 and moved back the lift center hmmm But anyway dig it that you're having fun with 'em! I'll likely keep at it and post back if i found a reason. edit Apr 1st: okie know what to do. more testing...

LOL. I call the f-35 the "frog" coz it looks like one:D Froggy McFrogFace. Tis nothing about aircraft performance etc... the euro canards are great aerodynamically or so I heard. The frog's cards are ofc stealth and great sensors but i (and probably most ppl) have no idea what those mean yet.

Slightly OT and more about general modding, I've been keeping an eye on Il2. Looks like stability is still the biggest problem. That game was not made to be modded...

hmmm indeed... also NoJettisionTank=TRUE for drop tanks

ah yes, pitch sensitivity on the 6-3 wing F-30/F-2. The slatted wing versions seem to hit the sweet spot on handling, the ac feels agile yet "tight" for accurate gunnery. Not sure about the increased pitch sensitivity on the 6-3 version. The interesting upside is it helps AI in scoring more hits/kills; but the plane feels more loose around the axis and I seem to have harder time hitting with the F-30 <-- but perhaps it's just me there?

thnx Coupi! Plz post if you see problems.

Okie have touched the holy grail and re-worked the F-86/Mig-15 FM aeros. tiz actually been going on for over a year now. The original sabre FMs flies very sweet but are way too good compared to the mig in performance, and has a tendency to enter flat spins when damaged when flown by AI. The former is mostly due to very low CDL (drag due to lift) leading to very low energy bleed during maneuvers; the latter mostly due to very forward xac (lift center) causing very high pitch sensitivity, and during combat the AI sometimes goes from full push to full pull in an instant leading to, in effect, pitch oscillation. Although AI flies on normal FM, after the airframe sustains damage the FM actually partly switches to hard and can depart, which the pitch oscillation does lead to at high alt/low speeds, mostly when AI is dodging gunfire or doing vertical maneuvering. Another small problem is very low lift at low alt below mach .2 as the CLa curve dips below 0.6 which I thought wouldn't matter until I got in a slow and low fight vs a mig. So purpose of the re-work: 1. re-balance performance of the sabre against the mig. 2. improve handling quality/safety of the sabre. Edits on the f-86s are: *CLa, CD0 and CDL numbers and curves rewritten adhering to TW formats. *Max Mach reduced (.93 for A/E, .94 for F-10, .95 for F-30, in game performance at low alt .91, .92 and .93 max for each, +.01 at high alt, max dive mach 1.03, 1.04, 1.05 for each) *Xac curves on the wings and stabilizers adjusted, lift center of wings is still forward of CG but a lot closer *wing chord lengthened a bit, Cmq (pitch moment due pitch rate) adjusted and cm0 added to [fuselage] *Alphastall, AlphaMax, Alphadepart and Clmax on wings and stabs adjusted adhering to TW formats *limited MaxControlSpeed for stabilizers and ailerons so high speed does reduce pitch/roll responses (also prevents over G, which hard FM does to AI and cause aircraft breakup), min/max deflection reduced on stabilizers and elevators *CL0 curves on the stabs adjusted to reduce stab deflection (trim) for 1g flight *Slats on the A, E, F-10 are given a higher DeltaStallAlpha for a better instantaneous turn rate *6-3 wing F have longer wing chords, higher wing lift and drag (4-5%), tiny bit higher critical alpha before slats, a little bit forward Xac on wings. The nail biter is the vortex effect of the 6-3, after various attempts I concluded it is impossible to model on the TW FM engine, so Cla curves are given 1%~3.2% edge on mach 0.6-0.9 to compensate. I have tried 20%, 12% and 8%, but they all make the aircraft way too fast. *other fixes and cleanups, unsymmetrical data points, callouts that are not used by game engine, etc. edits on the Mig-15 are not much, they're afterall stock TK's FM except *CDL reduced. Reason is the Mig-17, the Fresco wing has a lower aspect ratio, but much lower CDL vs the Fagot (plus higher Clmax). CDL curves have more data points. *aileron effectiveness reduced at high mach (according to mig-15 manual). The end result is this: The F-86A and E cannot out turn the Mig-15/15bis in sustained turn fights. They wouldn't be able to keep up with the Mig in a straight line acceleration or climbing. They can out turn the Mig with instantaneous turns. The F-86F-10 can out sustain turn the Mig-15, not the -15bis. The F-86F-30 can out sustain turn the mig-15bis at high speed, but cannot out turn it at low speeds. It can almost keep up in acceleration and climbing, the gap is still there but barely noticeable. (Just for testing, made a pseudo F-40 and it could marginally out sustain the Hunter, which I guess is adequate) For handling, pitch oscillation will only lead to flat spins below ~115kts, similar to stock TW FMs. For slatted sabres, it is even lower to impossible, if the slats are not shot off by gunfire which... they sometimes do. The reduced pitch sensitivity also provides a bit better precision in shooting. How does the player handle the sabre now - still take it vertical. The AI doesn't know very well energy preservation in the vertical and will become slower in this way. However even this has a limit as during testing I've given the -86E just .0001 higher CDL while the Mig a higher Clmax, and it struggled against the Mig in low alt vertical fights. How does the AI pit against each other. The 6-3 Fs are largely competent in shooting down Migs. The -86A is OKish. The -86E struggles a bit because it is the most underpowered, when it gets on the tail of the mig, due to low acceleration it is hard to close in for the 50cals to be effective, ending up as the AI sits on the Mig's tail for quite some time and being vulnerable. To compensate the "dogfightAI" ([DogfightNovice], [DogfightAce] etc.) is given some better stats with "ChanceContinue" and "ChanceCheckNewTarget", so the AI has a higher chance of breaking off the current attack if being attacked, or switch targets if it has injured the current one (damaged state leads AI to go home and outta the fight) but unable to kill it; also "CannonFireAngle" further reduced to improve accuracy.

Hiya Erik plz add me too.

Good point Wrench! Gotta make sure a [fakepilot] be arranged there to keep her.. warm...

[Hide1] ParentComponetName=Plane01 ModelNodeName= DestroyedNodeName=Hat [Hide2] ParentComponetName=Plane01 ModelNodeName= DestroyedNodeName=Coat [Hide3] ParentComponetName=Plane01 ModelNodeName= DestroyedNodeName=Boots

Stary: thnx, will take a look!

Wery interesting! Always had one of such ideas never got around to tinkering! ...Problem: error on download!!....

eh good one Johan... gotta love the microprose classics. Got anything more recent? I'm always on the look out for missing naval games. They're a bit rare/tough to find.

I still play naval warfare simulations' (NWS) Steam and Iron, and Rule the Waves. They only have 2D graphics but are very excellent naval games. And yeah before that looked at SES' Jutland. Game was... problematic. Such a shame. ps we've likely mentioned most naval games to date... just don't say world of warships...

Well, basically you have some ppl saying 'Murica!, we got more kills! Some others saying Mother Russia!!, we got more kills! I've seen them in various places and it was always pointless. This kind of history go hand in hand with politics... Politics for kings and queens and their puppets. They don't just wanna live like ordinary ppl, but wanna control the entire planet and wanna do it by killing others in war, and then claim the kills even years after. I learn about these but don't dwell on it any longer than have to. There are better ways to learn about our beloved airplanes. It is as far as I will say on this matter...

It is why I said FM and not piloting skills. A good pilot can beat anything But in contrast do you need to fly the mig "to the limit" to down the -86, is the question.. Have seen all kinds of numbers but don't care 'bout them these days, just nationalism at work... and comparing who's better at killing...

SF2 F-86 FM is pretty uber, it can fly circles around the mig. Otoh seems the sabre is weak in DCS, there was a big discussion on the DCS foras. It'd be nice to mix them together and average it out:p (Note pure FM performance and not piloting skills)

VERY good point about VR stary! It is quite sierra hotel atm in the buiz world, but I also doubt it is close to wide spread use even within the gaming scene. (Is it possible that they use this to secure more funding as a marketing line?...) also my original meaning: about games, i've learnt that modding does not promote sales. As a customer, should I buy this? So you ask, does it look good, is it fun to play etc. But, "does it allow modding" is not one of the questions. Modding helps customer experience after sales, i.e. you find out it can use mods, "oh it was a great buy"! But this is only after you made the payment. Secondly more free mods equals less commercial add-ons. So if you are fangs out for profit, it is natural to close the game from mods. Thirdly as they're adding MP especially player vs player mode it is less likely as modding --> cheating in the multiplayer world. we all like to mod here, and is great to see you take modding into account when deciding if "in" or not. I've also realized that I wouldn't really like a game if it can't be modded. So as a customer I'd like to ask myself, "can it be modded", before I buy it.

eh my thought exactly. But latest update seems like bad news Reading between the lines. I don't think modding will be supported. This above basically says both "we wanna make a kickass game" and "we wanna incorporate and make lotta $$". Zero prob from me for good dev making good dough. But it also usually means no modding. Or am i reading too much?