PhotoReal Terrains Available NOW at RAZBAM

[Guest capun]

I still think that there is room for both payware and freeware for the ThirdWire games, even TK has no problem and he has the most to loose (and gain).

 

To make mods for this game takes a lot of the time. Most of the devs have a real job and there is also family. If you look at the time it takes to do the project and what you get, you'll be lucky to get a nickel an hour for your work.

 

And on top of that, the terrain making tools are not the easiest one to learn and use.

 

Nobody is forcing you to buy their products and if you don't want to pay, I think this is the time to start getting involved and make them yourselves.

 

No experience? I think most of the modders started with zero experience and just learned and build it along. You can team up and divide the work if the task is to daunting.

 

You have choices, with most developers busy lifes you may have to wait for a long time to get their releases (look at the Grippen as an example), that is life. The other choice is pay for a product that can be developed faster and is supported. And the third choice is to roll up your sleeves and do it yourself.

[+Brain32 265]

I agree and understand that Capun, I have 0 problem with payware, and I have 0 problem with what happened here, and I still think Edwards work is amazing. If you or anybody else wander why such comments like in this thread showed up, I'm pretty sure(about 99% ) that all the negative comments would not be here at all IF people knew what will it be from the start.

I hope nobody got hurt in all this, and I suggest all payware developers to clearly and immidiately announce their work as payware. That is the best way to avoid situations like this

[+Jug 99]

I still think that there is room for both payware and freeware for the ThirdWire games, even TK has no problem and he has the most to loose (and gain).

 

To make mods for this game takes a lot of the time. Most of the devs have a real job and there is also family. If you look at the time it takes to do the project and what you get, you'll be lucky to get a nickel an hour for your work.

 

And on top of that, the terrain making tools are not the easiest one to learn and use.

 

Nobody is forcing you to buy their products and if you don't want to pay, I think this is the time to start getting involved and make them yourselves.

 

No experience? I think most of the modders started with zero experience and just learned and build it along. You can team up and divide the work if the task is to daunting.

 

You have choices, with most developers busy lifes you may have to wait for a long time to get their releases (look at the Grippen as an example), that is life. The other choice is pay for a product that can be developed faster and is supported. And the third choice is to roll up your sleeves and do it yourself.

 

The advent of YAP brought capitalism to the community. I bought in and have yet to regret it. I'll probably buy Edward's work too. I am just hooked on the Third Wire series.

 

In some ways, though, it is a bit of a diss on those who have spent hours on mods that we all have appreciated and enjoyed. What shocks me, on occasion, albiet rare, is when a member here gripes a little too loud about someone else's mod. I appreciate all of the mods, good, bad and ugly, and hold in high esteem those who jump in an give it a shot. A modder here is not walking away empty handed either. We are talking skill sets here.

 

Those who want to make a few bucks on the deal, the warning mentioned in other posts here apply. Your product had better be good, seamless, professional, and usefull. Otherwise, as in all business, you get no sale. Bye the way, when you put a dollar tag on your product, you move into a different category on the forums as well. Kind of like a professional paid athlete v.s. a guy who gives his all for his team or school. Expect "boos" from the crowd and if you cannot take the heat, don't get in the $$ game.

[+whiteknight06604 934]

I think a lot of people are missing the point.To me the issue isn't weather to pay or not to pay.I'll never badmouth somone for wanting to earn a little scratch from thier sweat.The problem I see is somone who lead everyone to think a release was free,and even when directly asked if it was pay or free refused to disclose,Thats the issue i have.Edward has done some incredible stuff.I have nothing but respect for his tallents.The way I see it a little more class on the sales end would have avoided a lot of the negative comments.I feel like I was in a best buy with a coupon for a TV and found out that the TV costs XXX dollars.I understand a lot of the"I'LL never charge for my stuff" comments,hell I'll never do it either(not that I could) but Edward has a right(in my opinion) to charge I just wish he was honest with the customers up front.I think I'll have this bad taste in my mouth for a while. :(

[jtin 0]

From the viewpoint of a "consumer", I have to say that payware isn't that bad. Yes, you have to pay, but competition creates better quality. And to echo a lot of people here, "It has to be good for me to buy it." I have to agree with WK in that Edward shouldn't have done this without warning, but (not trying to start a flame war here) it was the same way with YAP. It started out as a free add on, and then became payware. And guess what? The quality got better. I can understand why people want to mod for personal gain, and I fully respect that they have the right to do that, but after all, they don't call payware "the Dark side" for nothing.

 

My 2 cents.

[Guest Diego]

Just to set the record straight....YAP was never a free add-on. Carry on.

[+russouk2004 6,958]

Very dissapointing...led to believe its going to be free,and then whack...no it aint...honesty here doesnt cost a penny...unlike the overpriced terrains...dont get me wrong they look good,but if edward can learn to do it then I guess we can all have a go....

btw...Buccaneer is done,3 versions with 15 skins,weapons and new pilots......but...its gonna cost yer £50... :no2:

took me months to make so thats why its so expensive......

j\k....it aint gonna happen...why should others who charge for their work get mine free?...deal or no deal...none...

sorry things have gone down the payware route.......I dislike payware because,when others do equal quality work for the joy of doing them.....and give to others for free...

I notice no remarks concerning this skullduggery from edward..:(

R

Edited May 29, 2007 by russouk2004

[Aintry 0]

To think that I bolted SimHQ to escape this stuff...what *was* I thinking?

[+Dave 2,321]

To think that I bolted SimHQ to escape this stuff...what *was* I thinking?

 

Well its a civil conversation and I can see why people are upset. But it will pass, like it all does. I say lets carry on.

[Aintry 0]

OK.

[xrearl 27]

Paul ALL of your skins are pure art.Thank for your very hard work! The photoReal Terrains are good(the jungle gave me the runs) PS not a slam or gripe.Just kidding.

[FOTF 0]

Paul ALL of your skins are pure art.Thank for your very hard work! The photoReal Terrains are good(the jungle gave me the runs) PS not a slam or gripe.Just kidding.

 

 

Ahhhh.....can you feel the love?

 

BTW....your check is in the mail

 

And USAFMTL is right....this is a civil conversation, just people airing out different opinions. THAT is what seperates this community from the guys over at SHQ. I haven't seen one person call someone a doo doo head once!

[+Dave 2,321]

Well whether you like payware or not, no is forcing it on anyone. You do not have to buy it. So lets carry on.....there is room for freeware and payware. MSFS community does it and they both coexist well.

[+streakeagle 866]

Just to set the record straight....YAP was never a free add-on. Carry on.

 

But most of the addon files in the original release were ;)

Reselling files that were once free in a single package never impressed me.

Especially when the effort that it takes to install this package is more than if you downloaded the original files separately.

YAP finally has significant new content to justify the cost, but it is still a mess to install correctly.

Quite a few of the freeware packages have equal or better quality and are virtually hassle-free to install.

I like YAP as a whole, but it could use a more professional method of installation given that it is payware.

 

I have zero problems with payware as long as I get what I am paying for.

Of course, if someone wants to spend endless hours working to provide me with free addons, I have no objections either.

I really don't understand all the fuss.

If someone would pay me as much as I make at my job to make realistic flight models and/or a better FM tool, I would quit working and do this stuff full time.

But I don't see it happening, so I do mods when I have the extra time for my own personal benefit and give them away because I see no reason not to.

[+Dave 2,321]

Payware and freeware have their place in this community. You DO NOT have to buy any of it, you do not have to like it either. But you will not get on the asses of the people who are making mods and selling them. Period. The community has gotten so used to freebies that they can't get over the payware thing. Well get over it. It is not taking money out of your pocket. Why is this even an issue? If you were being forced to buy it then you can whine, but you are not. Some people had the forethought to take this to the next level. Good on them.

 

I do think Edward should of told everyone sooner it was going to be payware. Even I thought it was going to be freeware. But he didn't. So deal with it. YAP is working fine, RAZBAM is working fine. There has been no issues with them being payware for months. So press on, and have a nice day. Sheesh......all this hub bub over a game......once again we are our own worst enemy.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Payware and freeware have their place in this community. You DO NOT have to buy any of it, you do not have to like it either. But you will not get on the asses of the people who are making mods and selling them. Period. The community has gotten so used to freebies that they can't get over the payware thing. Well get over it. It is not taking money out of your pocket. Why is this even an issue? If you were being forced to buy it then you can whine, but you are not. Some people had the forethought to take this to the next level. Good on them.

 

I do think Edward should of told everyone sooner it was going to be payware. Even I thought it was going to be freeware. But he didn't. So deal with it. YAP is working fine, RAZBAM is working fine. There has been no issues with them being payware for months. So press on, and have a nice day. Sheesh......all this hub bub over a game......once again we are our own worst enemy.

 

 

Amen, I agree completely

[Piloto 3]

Payware and freeware have their place in this community.... You DO NOT have to buy any of it, you do not have to like it either. But you will not get on the asses of the people who are making mods and selling them... It is not taking money out of your pocket. Why is this even an issue?... YAP is working fine, RAZBAM is working fine. There has been no issues with them being payware for months. So press on, and have a nice day....

 

 

Roger that! The real issue with this is that i think everybody took it personal because was lead to think it was freeware when in the reality it was not and it was backedup by a misleading publicity stunt.... I cant say that happened to me because i wasnt really expecting it, so i dont taked it personal. As i said before for me the concept is weird...not the charging thing but the way you convert it.....

This is really kinda of a stupid problem....if payware=more quality i cant see why people shouldnt pay for a good product (hell i paid for the games) with good tech support.... if RAZ decided to make a photo high resolution terrain of Portugal i might even consider buying it for the kicks!

[Canadair 16]

You know what guys? I am stuck in-Turkey flying Waterbombers and I can't play SFP1 or Wov; It is only 24hrs now and I am having huge withdrawal; wish I could buy the addons,, sigh

[+whiteknight06604 934]

You know what guys? I am stuck in-Turkey flying Waterbombers and I can't play SFP1 or Wov; It is only 24hrs now and I am having huge withdrawal; wish I could buy the addons,, sigh

 

Your not gonna get much sympathy from a lot of us monitor-jocks.Some here would give anything to be flying a real aircraft. ;) I do feel your pain though I had a computer go down and sat around watching all these new toys comming out and not be able to play.........Aaaahhhhhh.

[+Tailspin 3]

Don't care for payware. Won't be buying this one either. One point I'd like to make. People who think its all about the MONEY just don't get it.

[Guest Saganuay82]

I think this thread has been beaten to death. Payware is here and it's been here a long time now. No point arguing payware anymore.

 

Edward should have said that he was going to release it as payware with RAZBAM but he didn't. Is he going to make more freeware terrains, who knows. Will it matter ? no. What we do need is more people to get onboard and try to make terrains. It isn't that hard, just more tedious but that is the way with everything here in this game.

 

If TK would change the way that the terrain is done and perhaps get away from tiles that would be a big benefit.

[PPPBEEBEE 0]

Products have their customers. I think Edward has his reason to release those terrains as payware. If you are very hardcore simmer and you love seeing detailed and realistic terrains, you think Edward's terrains are the best and you have "enough" money and a strong PC to handle those terrains, you'll buy. Otherwise, I think Deuce's terrains are good choices. I don't have money, so I decide to use Deuce's and I'm happy with them. But honestly, I think Edward should make some more impressive add-ons because people not only love terrains, when they love one game, their love it's graphics, sounds, gameplays,v.v... but terrains are only one part of graphics. I agree with the idea : "price=quality". Why there are so many people buy YAP without any trouble ? I think YAP give them a really good add-on values. YAP=24,95$, if you subtract it's first 10 mission then maybe YAP=14,95$ while Edward's VNese terrain = 15$, let's make some comparison :

- YAP's price = 14.95$ and you'll get: awesome aircrafts, awesome objects, awesome targets, Deuce's terrains and effects,v.v.. except mission (you can built your own with QMD).

- Edward's VNese terrain: with 15$ (more expensive !) you only get the more realistic terrain.

So, I'm sure there are not as many people buy Edward's terrains as they buy YAP.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Sag22::

What we do need is more people to get onboard and try to make terrains. It isn't that hard, just more tedious but that is the way with everything here in this game.

Man I wish I could tile. I have the sweetest map of SW Pacific centered on Celebes and a map centered on the Lake Baikal region, both maps 1500km size, and a huge wonderfully working Texture List for the Baikal map. The SW Pacific has brutal volcanic mountain terrain - and if there is one thing good about TK's AI programming, its how the AI can handle brutal terrain elevations at very low levels, unlike in other sims with AI crashing everywhere.

 

But I can't tile.

[column5 62]

$15 is outrageous. I have no problem with payware but this is ridiculous for a reskinned terrain. Fifteen bucks would be OK for a brand new, professionally built map with objects and target areas, but not for reskins. No way.

[+Brainless 1]

Payware and freeware have their place in this community. You DO NOT have to buy any of it, you do not have to like it either. But you will not get on the asses of the people who are making mods and selling them. Period. The community has gotten so used to freebies that they can't get over the payware thing. Well get over it. It is not taking money out of your pocket. Why is this even an issue? If you were being forced to buy it then you can whine, but you are not. Some people had the forethought to take this to the next level. Good on them.

 

I do think Edward should of told everyone sooner it was going to be payware. Even I thought it was going to be freeware. But he didn't. So deal with it. YAP is working fine, RAZBAM is working fine. There has been no issues with them being payware for months. So press on, and have a nice day. Sheesh......all this hub bub over a game......once again we are our own worst enemy.

 

Hmm...well here's my two pennyworth or maybe that should be two bucks or cents worth. I've looked at the screenshots and in my view those who have bought YAP, as I have, probably won't be all that impressed. I thought YAP was good value for money and in any case as the producers have to pay for the mods then I can't see that anyone should complain about having to buy the stuff. It really is good and some of the detail in the objects has to be seen to be believed. On top of this it's historically based and in my view this is a great advantage because the player is flying actual fighter pilot missions not some crazy fictious scenario. The only gripe is that all the files have to be manually installed and this might be a problem for some people as it was for me in the begginning.

 

I guess the other sceneries might be of interest but I reserve judgement on that for the time being. I have no problem paying for enjoying my hobby but what does annoy me is when I pay the price but don't get the goods. I have just spent about £100 approx £200 dollars on aircraft for FS2004 and quite honestly you guys produce better models for free!! I ended up trashing them and they come from well known developers with purportedly good reviews. I say again without apology, the work produced and available on this site is well up to payware standard and I thank you all for distributing this for me and others who share the same passion.

 

All the best to everyone.

 

Brainless