Future Of SF

[+ext 52]

I have been reading in other forums about key modders thinking about packing in SF. To me this game depends heavily on mods to keep it going. Personaly this is one of my favorite games. The other day I was in some game stores and saw Il-2FB and CFS3 still at full price. Now I know FB is awaiting their patch and CFS3 is awaiting their terrain editor but they keep selling those games. SF if you can find a copy is usually in some bargin bin. This games patch seems to be crucial to its future. How many scrren shots of potential planes have we seen. So far we have downloaded only a few. I am not a modder so I do not know how crucial this patch is to make these planes flyable. I have the highest respect for any modder no matter how small the mod is. This thread is not about the patch because I will never say(are we there yet!!!) if you know what I mean. The talk is all about LOMAC but it is not a sim in the early 60s. When you see of people who have made an impression in this game thinking about moving on you have to wonder. I hope LOMAC will not be the death of SF.

[navychief 1]

I am not a modder at all. Heck, I feel fortunate just being able to install a mod; let alone MAKE one!

 

Perhaps I am alone in my feelings about this, but to me, SF is such an unusual sim in the way that it is so open to mods by everyone. It is because of this that I like it so much; along with the era that the sim portrays.

 

The aircraft from the Vietnam Era were definitely part of my life for four years during my first enlistment. Playing this sim brings back a lot of good memories, as I "fly" those beautiful Phantoms and Skyhawks that I worked on, but could not pilot. Soon, I hope to be "flying" the Corsair and the Viggie too!

 

Long live SF!

 

Navy Chief

[Sledge 0]

Ext makes mention of the fact that this sim takes place in the 60's, and that is the best reason I can think of for modders and players alike sticking with it. There just is'nt anything else out there that lets you fly THESE aircraft with THESE weapons. I love the modern stuff as much as the next guy, but if you grew up with visions of Phantoms, Starfighters, Skyhawks, Crusaders, and Corsairs dancing through your head like I did, there simply is no other choice but SF. Thats why I think that LOMAC, for all its detail and visual appeal, will not be the death of SF. They are two completely different critters. Am I gonna get LOMAC? Darn straight I am! Got mine pre-ordered already. Will I abandon SF when I get LOMAC? Nope. Shoot, I still fly CFS2 and Falcon 4 because they are still FUN! And thats what this is really all about, eh?! - Sledge out.

[Dagger 21]

I may have a"bad attitude" about this but if they want to leave then,well all i can say is"CYA".ok so we loose a modder or 2..and yes we'll lose some because they want instant gratification.TK and the beta team are working on the patch and I'd rather see it take longer and fix more than listen to everyone cry about what didn't get fixed.yes this sim is fun and i for one will continue to play it.

[Seawolf 0]

Dagger, its been over a year since the Gold release, not just the walmart fiasco, but the final release. You cant honestly say these guys are looking for a "quick fix". Loyalty to TK and SF is one thing, but let's be honest here, the lack of communication and info on updates is turning even those who were hardcore towards SF away. If this keeps up you wont have anyone to say CYA to because nobody will be left. Call me a basher if you want its fine with me, but I still have SF on my HDD and cant play it because I own a radeon card so I patiently wait for this all wonderfull patch thats supposed to be released. A little communication about what is going on and some progress reports would help quite a bit and ease a lot of peoples minds out there. BTW- SF didnt just lose 1 or 2 modders, It lost two of the best ones out there.

This is a serious issue and shouldn't be addressed with "CYA". :roll:

[+Fates 63]

OK,

 

/soapbox on

 

Everyone one of ya got some things correct and some things incorrect. The one thing that everyone so far has agreed to is that they will still look foward to playing the game.

 

Seawolf, I completely disagree with "its been over a year since the Gold release"

 

IMHO TK was forced by contract to put out an unfinished project. TK also takes alot of pride in his work. Thus you can only imagine that he was about as fumed about the whole situation as all of you are now. The Unfinished project IMO was not truely a GOLD but a Beta. If we assume it was a beta, then maybe Patch 1 ws the "GOLD", in which case Patch 2 is really patch 1, etc...etc... Please be patient...testing continues, and it continues because there doesn't need to be a single pilot crying about "When's the next patch coming out?"

 

Dagger, I also disagree with "OK...so we loose a few Modders"

 

IMHO The Modders are what make the game. Without them the game will die a quick death. They are the reason TK designed the game as he did. FS2002 is a boring sim IMO...but the Mods turn it into a great sim. Loosing any modder that has developed so much and inspired so many is a great loss... I'd rather say CYA to a whole lot of others then modders.

 

I would like to see more information released just as much as the next guy, but..... Do we want to see eyeball candy and false hopes of a campaign engine like we have from LOMAC since 2001? I didn't think so. I'm also sorry that everyone paid for such a great game that hasn't performed as advertised. However, I do believe TK is making every effort to get this patch out for your enjoyment. With Enjoyment being the key word. No Crying, No Griping, just a satisfied customer that can understand what hard work has went in to a sim created by so few to put smiles on so many.

 

/soapbox off

 

Fates

[+SkateZilla 49]

OK,

 

/soapbox on

 

Everyone one of ya got some things correct and some things incorrect.  The one thing that everyone so far has agreed to is that they will still look foward to playing the game.

 

Seawolf, I completely disagree with "its been over a year since the Gold release"

 

IMHO TK was forced by contract to put out an unfinished project.  TK also takes alot of pride in his work. Thus you can only imagine that he was about as fumed about the whole situation as all of you are now.  The Unfinished project IMO was not truely a GOLD but a Beta.  If we assume it was a beta, then maybe Patch 1 ws the "GOLD", in which case Patch 2 is really patch 1, etc...etc...  Please be patient...testing continues, and it continues because there doesn't need to be a single pilot crying about "When's the next patch coming out?"

 

Dagger, I also disagree with "OK...so we loose a few Modders"

 

IMHO The Modders are what make the game.  Without them the game will die a quick death.  They are the reason TK designed the game as he did.  FS2002 is a boring sim IMO...but the Mods turn it into a great sim.  Loosing any modder that has developed so much and inspired so many is a great loss...   I'd rather say CYA to a whole lot of others then modders.

 

I would like to see more information released just as much as the next guy, but.....  Do we want to see eyeball candy and false hopes of a campaign engine like we have from LOMAC since 2001? I didn't think so.  I'm also sorry that everyone paid for such a great game that hasn't performed as advertised.  However, I do believe TK is making every effort to get this patch out for your enjoyment.  With Enjoyment being the key word.  No Crying, No Griping, just a satisfied customer that can understand what hard work has went in to a sim created by so few to put smiles on so many.

 

/soapbox off

 

Fates

 

 

I believe that also.

 

The Publisher wanted him to release it the first time.

and when it bombed the publisher quickly released that it was an open beta test.

 

If the Publisher was smart and knew what he had, he could have re-did the contract so that TK could finish the Sim and release it complete.

 

I know he had to have been forced to release it.

 

Just by being a modder and tweaking INI files

there are things in the INI files (systems, effects, sound configs etc) that arent even being used.

 

the first patch fixed some major issues with the campaign or something i didn't really notice since it ran fine for me accept with hardware TCL enabled.

 

which does seem to effect the GFx AS Much .

after enabled W Buffer and installed the DirectX 9 patch for Starfleet command

 

Before that with HTCL on i got 15-21 Fps average.

now i get 25-35 .. with it on. and with TCL off i get 34 -39 but some lighting effects dont look as nice.

[+SkateZilla 49]

as for the modders out there

 

i spoke to a few that do some kick butt Military planes for FS2002 and they said if TK Fixed alot of the bugs and made importing planes a bit easier they'd try it out and give it a taste.

 

i was fooling around the other day and i imported the Star Gate and the DHD into the game as a ground target.. lol.. funny as hell thought he FPS dropped to 1 when it appeard on screen cause of the 35,000 poly count

[Seawolf 0]

Good Point Fates and I meant no disrespect toward TK at all. I also agree it wasn't his fault, but truth is now he is stuck trying to fix it alone. I understand that he doesnt have a huge team working on this, but I would really like a little more communication from him every now and then. Nothing huge, just a "Hey, this is what's going on" type of thing.

 

OK,

 

/soapbox on

 

Everyone one of ya got some things correct and some things incorrect.  The one thing that everyone so far has agreed to is that they will still look foward to playing the game.

 

Seawolf, I completely disagree with "its been over a year since the Gold release"

 

IMHO TK was forced by contract to put out an unfinished project.  TK also takes alot of pride in his work. Thus you can only imagine that he was about as fumed about the whole situation as all of you are now.  The Unfinished project IMO was not truely a GOLD but a Beta.  If we assume it was a beta, then maybe Patch 1 ws the "GOLD", in which case Patch 2 is really patch 1, etc...etc...  Please be patient...testing continues, and it continues because there doesn't need to be a single pilot crying about "When's the next patch coming out?"

 

Dagger, I also disagree with "OK...so we loose a few Modders"

 

IMHO The Modders are what make the game.  Without them the game will die a quick death.  They are the reason TK designed the game as he did.  FS2002 is a boring sim IMO...but the Mods turn it into a great sim.  Loosing any modder that has developed so much and inspired so many is a great loss...   I'd rather say CYA to a whole lot of others then modders.

 

I would like to see more information released just as much as the next guy, but.....  Do we want to see eyeball candy and false hopes of a campaign engine like we have from LOMAC since 2001? I didn't think so.  I'm also sorry that everyone paid for such a great game that hasn't performed as advertised.  However, I do believe TK is making every effort to get this patch out for your enjoyment.  With Enjoyment being the key word.  No Crying, No Griping, just a satisfied customer that can understand what hard work has went in to a sim created by so few to put smiles on so many.

 

/soapbox off

 

Fates

[snapple2993 0]

Hmmm? Would be sad to see SF go, but then again, very little info comes out of Third Wire, so I can understand why some modders would choose to move onto newer projects.

 

SH*T! I hope the A-6 guys are still hangin around.

 

As long as the Intruder is flyable... I will be happy.

 

Cheers,

Jay

[striker01 0]

Hi snapple2993,

 

look at the pics. An A-6 and a Prowler. Pics made 1985 at Goose Bay Canada.

 

Regards Striker01

[QueBee 0]

Regarding the numerous apeals above for more update info from TK, I would like to point out that this great guy replied to my email which asked for a progress report, with 12 hrs. This I thought was excellent, despite there being no specific release dates mentioned. At least TK did reply and confirmed that work was actually in progress. How many games developers reply to emails?

 

On a second point, I would like to say hi to this community. I am new to SF and have fallen in love with the sim and the mods that I have seen so far. Keep up the good work guys, and remember the old saying, "Patience young grasshopper".

 

(Easy for me to say I know. I havent been waiting for a year!) :roll:

[BERNARD1943 0]

Seawolf, please who are these two moders? Tell us..............

[+ext 52]

One is Lud von Pipper who is thinking of quiting modding. The other is ArmourDave who is taking the summer off for other reasons. There are a couple of more who have indicated they might be headed in the same direction. No need to name names. The only reason that these two are brought up is because they have been major players in the modding community. One for their mods and two helping other people with their mods. I for one appreciate everything they have done for this sim. If any of the modders decide to move on all we can say is thanks for what you have done for us.

[BERNARD1943 0]

thanks Ext for the information, yes, Armourdave is in holidays and he doesn't have internet access. Taking a break during holidays is indeed a very good reason for not being here in the forums

I see there are people trying to spread false information about him :evil:

 

So OK there is Lud Von Piper.

[Cretin 0]

I don't think SF is going to die. It has too much to offer. It is more of a sim than an arcade game. It has open architecture. The frame rates are great even at high res. It presents nothing but open ended possibilities. Hard to find all of that very often these days!

 

As regards pricing and location in stores, that's all business. If you had just released CFS3 would you want SF sitting on the shelf next to it? In addition, haven't you noticed how much more space is being given in stores to X-box and similar players and how space is being taken away from the ever shrinking array of PC games? It's war out there. Companies want to promote their products while at the same time squashing the competition. It appears to me that there is an all out effort at consolidation and moving everyone from PC games to game box games. Only problem is there won't be any high quality air combat sims.

 

As regards LOMAC, all I can say is that I don't see it as an either/or situation. I cannot speak for others and I have no control over the decisions of others so I don't spend much time thinking about that sort of stuff.

 

Regardless of what happens I am happy that I purchased SF. I want to support any efforts to bring forth new combat flight sims. SF is a bold effort. Even if it did "die", if I didn't already own it I would buy it after it "died" because I would like to see more efforts in the future along the lines of SF. Yeah, for me it's a cause. I don't want to one day find that the only thing available is an arcade game for Nintendo.

 

OK, sermon over, he he. You can go home now. :-)

[Scout_51 0]

want its fine with me, but I still have SF on my HDD and cant play it because I own a radeon card

 

interesting.. I also have a radeon card and have had no prob running the sim....what made this sim great was the same reason that eaw is still on my h/d,they are excellent sims,decent support and man o'man those mods.....

[striker01 0]

Back to the originally thread.

 

Future of SF

 

Please check the No. of threads. No theme has that much of threads.

 

Doesn´t look like a dead or hidden sim, does it?

 

Striker01 8)

 

 

Look at the MSFS. Someone puts a sim on the market and lives from the modders and let the sim growe. It is for people who like airline flying a heaven. Nowhere you can find more freeware stuff for a sim as on www,flightsim.com. Why shouldn´t work that for the SF. Every two years you have to buy another version of MSFS an to hope, that there are patches for the money you spent in add-ons (you need them to make the sim just looking good a little). At 30.000 ft I don´t care about some missing trees on the ground and as long as some guys create such lovely mods for this sim I willfly my Phine Phantom.

 

So tell me how to put an object to the playground a I will try to offer my contribution.

 

Regards

 

Striker01

[Dark_Knight_667th 0]

Problem number 1 that modifications in SF face..

 

Understanding the data in the ini's..not all of us are aerospace engineers like TK and some others..but yet to add an aircraft..you gotta have a set of ini's for it..some are extremely simple..some like the data.ini's are spanglish in some areas..and they are all different in between aircraft..so it all deals with the flight characteristics of each..wing type, airfoil type, sweep, drag coefficients ets..these are what I have been able to figure out so far..lift coefficents and so forth..obtaining full flight parameter diagrams for aircraft of that age is next to impossible unless you live across the street from the edwards afb reference library at the flight test center or across the street from the air and space museum..

 

Email either and neither one have the time to help..makes the job even tougher. Aircraft manufacturers no longer have the data..out of date aircraft no longer in production..ask the airforce..

 

Try building a data.ini that is within 1% of real life specs on that..its impossible. These numbers aren't constants for all aircraft..

 

DK

[+pcpilot 181]

I been lookin forward to this sim since I first heard about it. Yep, the bugs make me crazy, espesially the Radeon ones. Yep, its annoying as all get out that more info isnt forthcoming, come on Strat first and TW, sheesh. But Ill also say this, like a LOT of other guys here, I aint givin up on it just yet. This patch comin up is important to me and a lot of people. But I also really love the era of flight this sim covers. There wasnt any planes like these babies before or since. A pilot was still a pilot and not just some "integrated monitoring asset". Cant blame some modders for losing interest really. There are other places they can work where they can feel like something is happening. Communication counts. But I suspect that once the patch comes out and most of the bugs are resolved, they give 'er another whirl. Armourdave and LVP KNOW they are appreciated by the online community. They just need to be supported a little better with updates and patches by the "powers that be" to make things work like they should. Soooo, I think things will work out in the end to everyones satisfaction as long as TK doesnt walk away.

[Priest 0]

OK,

 

/soapbox on

 

Everyone one of ya got some things correct and some things incorrect.  The one thing that everyone so far has agreed to is that they will still look foward to playing the game.

 

Seawolf, I completely disagree with "its been over a year since the Gold release"

 

IMHO TK was forced by contract to put out an unfinished project.  TK also takes alot of pride in his work. Thus you can only imagine that he was about as fumed about the whole situation as all of you are now.  The Unfinished project IMO was not truely a GOLD but a Beta.  If we assume it was a beta, then maybe Patch 1 ws the "GOLD", in which case Patch 2 is really patch 1, etc...etc...  Please be patient...testing continues, and it continues because there doesn't need to be a single pilot crying about "When's the next patch coming out?"

 

Dagger, I also disagree with "OK...so we loose a few Modders"

 

IMHO The Modders are what make the game.  Without them the game will die a quick death.  They are the reason TK designed the game as he did.  FS2002 is a boring sim IMO...but the Mods turn it into a great sim.  Loosing any modder that has developed so much and inspired so many is a great loss...   I'd rather say CYA to a whole lot of others then modders.

 

I would like to see more information released just as much as the next guy, but.....  Do we want to see eyeball candy and false hopes of a campaign engine like we have from LOMAC since 2001? I didn't think so.  I'm also sorry that everyone paid for such a great game that hasn't performed as advertised.  However, I do believe TK is making every effort to get this patch out for your enjoyment.  With Enjoyment being the key word.  No Crying, No Griping, just a satisfied customer that can understand what hard work has went in to a sim created by so few to put smiles on so many.

 

/soapbox off

 

Fates

I would also have to agree with Fates, the ground pounders over at The Wargamer are dealing with their own fiasco from Strategy First, namely HOI. This game was also released in an unfinished state, the current patch is up to 18-19 meg with more on the way. It seems that Strategy First must take most if not all the blame for how SFP1 turned out. Hopefully TK can remedy the situation before a lot of gamers give up on SFP1.

[Overkill 0]

Let me just add to the voices of those that are waiting. I haven't bothered playing the sim in about 8 months so if it is fixed accordingly, it is going to be like starting over.

 

Let's all hope that TK can get it right. At least SF hasn't stopped development and TK can continue to work.

[Flakmagnet 0]

With all the talk about the second patch has any one talked to TK or Third Wire about an updated or estimated completion date not exact time just an estimated date they think things may be wraped up ready for us. :D