Commercial Add-ons, part 2

[+Major Lee 18]

Thanks for the replies to the first survey. Since the majority indicate that they would pay for aircraft, what aircraft would you actually buy? There are so many that have been done, but the quality and completeness does vary a bit. Myself, I would like to see a high level P-47D/M/N series, along with a fictional combat version of the XP-72. I would like to see a companion/antagonist set of the FW190A/D to match. (We currently have a very fine P-47N from Russo, but it does need a proper cockpit) For jets, I really need to see the F-86H. So, please answer the following questions below...

 

1: What would you pay-to-fly?

 

2: As for terrains, where/when would you pay to see in the SF series?

[DirtyBirdFA 1]

1.) The Lockheed U-2R/TR-1 "Dragon Lady" (Don't know how feasible that may be though)

2.) A sector of Russia (reconnaissance missions for above)

Edited October 30, 2007 by DirtyBirdFA

[tank03 1]

1.) The Lockheed U-2R/TR-1 "Dragon Lady" (Don't know how feasible that may be though)

2.) A sector of Russia (reconnaissance missions for above)

 

1. A cargo package: C-133, 123, 119, 17, 5.

 

2. A larger middle east: (Saudi Peninsula, Sinai, Egypt, Eastern Africa)

2a. Afghanistan/Pakistan

[+JSF_Aggie 1,291]

F-101 & F-102

[Wrench 9,848]

Pasko's had a U2 available for several years now...a quick search should find it.

 

as to a couple of the others...

 

 

 

 

As to the original questions, I can't think of any aircraft off hand, but I'd like to see the Indo/Pak terrain. The entire planeset already exists, as do most of the ground objects. Another would me more toward Soviet Central Asia/Siberia and maybe the North Cape area/Northern Europe (ala EF2K)

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+Major Lee 18]

Those are awful pics, Wrench, just awful...

[Wrench 9,848]

Well, they ARE very early in the development stages...lacking finialized FMs, skins...I did find a nice sound effect for the engines though. Unfortunately, they'e also lo-priority. We'll get back to them eventually

 

I did them in silouhette (sp?) cause there are some folks that wouldn't know a Dora from a shmora, and to hide the material coloring

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

ps: I'm SOOO looking forward to getting the finalized uvmaps to try and skin these...JG301 w/red white stripes! oi!!!

[+streakeagle 871]

I will buy any reasonably priced addon aircraft.

I generally love all aircraft and want to be able to fly them.

I have my favorites and will pay more money to see them done to the highest possible standard.

I find RAZBAM's set up to be fair.

My wishlist has largely been covered between TK's releases, free addons, and payware.

But, the F-101 and F-102 are painfully absent from an otherwise great implementation of the Century series.

Ultimately, I would like to see every jet fighter ever produced rather than just the principal NATO/Warsaw Pact front runners.

 

The Mirage Factory is a blessing.

They are giving away aircraft with quality generally comparable if not superior to any commercial developer.

However, since they work for free, their progress is relatively slow.

[triplethr3at 0]

I would pay for a flanker package :yes:

[Longestpants 1]

Personally, I would pay for an Incom T-65. (nerd joke)

 

No seriously, I agree with streakeagle; I would pay for any reasonably priced addon.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Longestpants

[lazboy 1]

No seriously, I agree with streakeagle; I would pay for any reasonably priced addon.

 

 

Ok so lets define what is a "reasonable price" for an aircraft.

 

I have purchased additional aircraft as addons for FS2004 and paid in the order of £10 ($20)for them as downloads and around £14 ($28) in the UK for them as retail packages and generally been happy with what I received for my money.

 

I reckon that bearing in mind the time and effort that comes into creating a new aircraft that between £5 - £10 ($10-$20) per aircraft would be reasonable especially if they came with additional skins and optional loadouts.

 

There are some planes I would even pay more for just to be able to fly in the skies of WOV, how much do you consider reasonable?

[+Major Lee 18]

There are some planes I would even pay more for just to be able to fly in the skies of WOV, how much do you consider reasonable?

 

 

Which planes? "Reasonable" for one person might be very different from someone else; it's how badly one wants the item in question. There are some planes I would pay $10 to $20, but precious few for which I would pay more... However, I would pay, if it were available... The high availability of variant aircraft from the free modders makes paying that much more difficult in the SF community.

[lazboy 1]

Which planes? "Reasonable" for one person might be very different from someone else; it's how badly one wants the item in question. There are some planes I would pay $10 to $20, but precious few for which I would pay more... However, I would pay, if it were available... The high availability of variant aircraft from the free modders makes paying that much more difficult in the SF community.

 

 

There are some notable omissions from amoungst the aircrafty that are currently available, The Buccaneer for instance, The Voodoo, Frogfoot for which I would happily pay to be able to fly now rather than in Two weeks time.

 

The cornerstone of the SF community is and always will be its vounteer modders but it could also be at the same time what restricts its expansion. There is somewhat of a tendancy to try and recreate every conceivable version of a particular aircraft rather than create models of completely new aircraft and thus fill some of the gaps that exist in all of our hangers.

 

I think there is room in SF for Pay per Plane as it could allow some of the gaps to be filled more rapidly whilst taking off of the Volunteer modders the pressure of the endless questions from Newbies as to when this or that plane is going to be realeased which inevitably results in the Two Weeks rebutal.

 

I would even be willing to contribute towards the cost of a modder creating a particular aircraft that could then be released free of charge to the wider SF Community if it mean't that our skies would be full of new and exciting aircraft.

 

Lazboy

[+Dave 2,322]

F-101 & F-102

 

 

Yes for sure an F-101 and F-102 would be great.

[redwolf 19]

Yes, add me to the F-101 & F-102 list as well.

[+Dave 2,322]

There are some notable omissions from amoungst the aircrafty that are currently available, The Buccaneer for instance, The Voodoo, Frogfoot for which I would happily pay to be able to fly now rather than in Two weeks time.

 

The cornerstone of the SF community is and always will be its vounteer modders but it could also be at the same time what restricts its expansion. There is somewhat of a tendancy to try and recreate every conceivable version of a particular aircraft rather than create models of completely new aircraft and thus fill some of the gaps that exist in all of our hangers.

 

I think there is room in SF for Pay per Plane as it could allow some of the gaps to be filled more rapidly whilst taking off of the Volunteer modders the pressure of the endless questions from Newbies as to when this or that plane is going to be realeased which inevitably results in the Two Weeks rebutal.

 

I would even be willing to contribute towards the cost of a modder creating a particular aircraft that could then be released free of charge to the wider SF Community if it mean't that our skies would be full of new and exciting aircraft.

 

Lazboy

 

 

You are forgetign one very important thing, what the modders interest is. Maybe that person wants to do all versions of a particular aircraft because he doesn't have the interst in a Bucc or a Voodoo. So saying that "there is somewhat of a tendancy to try and recreate every conceivable version of a particular aircraft" is moot at best. If a person isn't interested in it then its not going to get done.

[FastCargo 412]

I would even be willing to contribute towards the cost of a modder creating a particular aircraft that could then be released free of charge to the wider SF Community if it mean't that our skies would be full of new and exciting aircraft.

 

Though I understand your good intentions here, I don't think this would really help at all.

 

Besides the initial cost of 3ds Max (unless you get it at a student discount or something like that), the biggest cost in making 3d models to use in game is TIME. Every modder, including those on payware products, will still tell you that it's mostly an inherent interest in the particular product they are modding that is the primary motivation to get it done and get it done properly. Now, I think money for product helps (fulfilling a contract) and can of course provide additional income for other interests. But the downside of such an arrangement is now a binding contract and expectations to live up to. Which can be problematic if you run into snags...because you are still expected to 'get the job done', which is fair. It can actually restrict your freedom as a modder, both in opening up to criticism (justified or not) and time pressures if RL intrudes.

 

For those who mod for free, the time and quality restrictions are mostly self induced, and can be adjusted as RL changes. Offering money sounds like a great idea in theory, but just how much would be enough? I can tell you no amount of money this community could provide replaces the time I spend with my wife and son (soon to be sons plural). Hey, I'm happy to work on a project at FL360 from MEM to YVR in the middle of the night...I'm getting paid anyway, I'm away from my family, and I gotta do something to keep awake. But when I'm at home, playing with my son, modding ain't going to happen...period. And I would be leery to accept cash for a product, no matter if the final intent was to keep it free. Any person with any sort of conscience would automatically create that pressure to get it done because, hey, someone did pay for it...even if it's a 'gift' donation.

 

I frankly don't want the pressure. I like my freedom right now to walk away and say FOAD if I want to and have no guilt. I like that I can pick and choose what I want to work on, when I want to work on it, and how fast or how slow I want to progress on it. And if it sucks, well, I can say 'Too f*****n bad...fix it yourself!'.

 

Now, realize that I don't want it to come to that...I want my work to continue to improve and to contribute in general to the community. In general, I do enjoy tinkering, and it's been fun adding stuff to the sim to expand it. I look forward to my first ground object, my first aircraft, my first single mission, etc... But sometimes, there are just going to be aircraft, theatres, objects, that simply won't be provided because the 3 conditions to make one (ability, motivation, and time) don't or won't exist. At that point, the best you can do is live with it.

 

As far as what I would pay for an addon? Mainly, better terrains. Better FM/AI. That's pretty much it. I don't need clickable cockpits or nth degree detailing...

 

FastCargo

[+Dave 2,322]

FC has agood point and I am sure that the payware people can attest too that with pay comes deadlines and that is not always easy.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

I have become truly amazed at what the modding community has done for this sim. TK just has to catch up. If he did, more modders would do even more stuff.

 

MajorLee::

We currently have a very fine P-47N from Russo, but it does need a proper cockpit

FastCargo::

I don't need clickable cockpits or nth degree detailing...

The sim is so lite, customizing the many existing cockpits for use inside other aircraft external models is far more than sufficient. There is a MiG cockpit thread at ThudWire, but I surprised myself in NOT wanting TK to make payware Soviet cockpits for various reasons that I never thought about before seeing that thread (unless TK went Red out-of-box).

 

 

More here ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...sc&start=32

[+Corktip_14 0]

Well, as far as planes are concerned, I would pay for an F-101/RF-101 pack, and F-8C, an RF-8A or a C-119.

 

For the terrain, a complete good Europe map, with Belgium, France, Britain, Germany, Russia, ...

[lazboy 1]

Though I understand your good intentions here, I don't think this would really help at all.

 

FastCargo

 

Well if nothing else we have stimulated a healthy debate about the future direction of the SF Community and why we each are involved in it and what we hope to get from it in the future and the direction that it perhaps should take in order to remain healthy and prosperous.

 

It strikes me that the community has actually out grown TH to some extent and that TH is actually failing to keep up with the demands and expectations of its customer base particularly with regards what modders would like to be able to acheive within the constraints of the existing game engine.

 

Are we about to see the emergence of another source of Payware aircraft was that why this thread was originally created, I don't for one know but should a supplier have available an aircraft that I would like to fly reasonably priced I will probably pay for it.

 

Aircraft that I would love to see include: Rafale, TSR2, Buccanneer, F101, Victor, SR71,

 

 

Lazboy

[+streakeagle 871]

While "reasonably priced" is wide open to interpretation, parallel markets like MS Flight Sim addons provide a reference and I personally believe Razbam's approach is pretty much ideal: A pretty good 3d model with pretty good textures suitably modified to provide several variants for $15. Due to the complexity of the physics involved and the lack of published data, I will never expect addons to provide the quality of FM I want. I do expect that payware addon FMs should try to at least get the basic max speeds, landing speeds, and roll rates close enough that it doesn't feel like an arcade airplane on HARD settings. Such is quickly achievable by tweaking FMs from the stock aircraft provided by TK. I have paid anywhere from $10 to $40 for plastic models hanging from my ceiling so I don't have any problem paying similar prices for virtual models that are ultimately more entertaining. But I only paid more than $20 when it was an exceptionally high quality kit of an aircraft that was either hard to find or one that I really love. i.e. I paid $35 for a 1/48 Tamiya P-51D and it was worth every penny as the parts fit together so well you almost didn't need cement. I didn't have to use any putty at all to fill seams since there were no gaps or uneven edges.

 

Call me insane, but if someone could somehow provide an FM certified to be as accurate as the game engine permits, outstanding hi-res layered texture templates, and hi-fidelity external and cockpit 3d models, I would buy all of my favorite aircraft at $50 to $100 per series (i.e. F-4B/J/N/S might be a complete series). I think that is fair since an excellent hardcore study sim focused on one aircraft could easily be priced the same. If I believed there was enough demand for hi-fidelity flight models to pay me enough money to quit my day job, I would qo into business myself as my wife and sister-in-law are capable of doing the 3ds-max work while I would have to do the FMs and textures. But I don't believe there is enough demand and I don't have the spare time to do this as a 2nd job.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

streakeagle::

I do expect that payware addon FMs should try to at least get the basic max speeds, landing speeds, and roll rates close enough that it doesn't feel like an arcade airplane on HARD settings.

I hope your right. Doing the MiG-9 "FM" (loose wording perhaps) for Timmy, I finally gave up in frustration at the game engine, and decided to fully focus on my personal goal, and its not flight model competition, which is what I call the traditional combat flight The Sim tactical dogfight gaming.

 

The *one* thing TK's AI does stunngingly well is tree-top terrain following. I still find myself amazed watching the AI consistantly do this, when other The Sims have AI crashing into hills all the time. This cries out for focus on low level long range penetration missions, and interception missions against them.

 

For me, the basics for penetration and interception missions are...

 

Takeoff and landing distances

Fuel consumption

Speed

Altitude

Climb rate

Acceleration

Manueverability at high speeds and high altitudes....something I have yet to focus on.