Fair-Use Modding

[column5 63]

I wanted to raise the subject of fair-use modding again since our membership is steadily growing and many new modders have come onboard since we talked about it last.

 

Basically, many of us in the SF modding community are promoting the idea of "fair-use" modding. That is, when we release our work, we do so with minimal restrictions. Usually we only request that proper credit be given and that our original readme files be included if our work is incorporated into other projects. No need to ask for permission to modify, no need for secret handshakes to download, etc.

 

I'd like to encourage any new modders to consider this and sign up if you are agreeable! It is one of the best things we can do to keep our simming community strong and growing.

 

More info here:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=26131

[+ravenclaw_007 7,633]

count me in

[KingAlbert 0]

I am in

[+suhsjake 11]

I'll do it.

[+malibu43 142]

I'm in.

[column5 63]

Thanks guys, you are tops.

[Viggen 644]

I have a question regarding fair use. Now, say a modder has left the community, yet kept their creations or whatever here.

 

What is the deal regarding those? Could we use those or not...

Edited July 17, 2008 by JA 37 Viggen

[Wrench 9,847]

Mostly, that depends on the group. If they have a policy of NOT allowing use, or use only by permissions, that rule must be abided by.

 

Written permission MUST be obtained via emails, or forum postings, and MUST be contained in any readme that the mod is to be used in.

 

If they've LEFT entiretly, gone off and done something else, MY opinion is, it may be considered 'abandonware', and is open for mods. HOWEVER -you knew that was coming!!!- I'd most certainly make double-damm sure that you list them as the original creator in the readme of your mod. I've done this myself.

 

If they're still IN the community, but have removed their mods from General Use, again, their wishes MUST be respected.

 

Hence, once again, the need for proper readmes. This goes for EVERYONE!!!!

 

To you joining us in the Freeware Accords Treaty (FAT), welcome!!! It can only strengthen the community, create more and BETTER mods, and increase the life-span of our favorite hobby. My personal thanks!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I´m in!

[column5 63]

Mostly, that depends on the group. If they have a policy of NOT allowing use, or use only by permissions, that rule must be abided by.

 

Written permission MUST be obtained via emails, or forum postings, and MUST be contained in any readme that the mod is to be used in.

 

If they've LEFT entiretly, gone off and done something else, MY opinion is, it may be considered 'abandonware', and is open for mods. HOWEVER -you knew that was coming!!!- I'd most certainly make double-damm sure that you list them as the original creator in the readme of your mod. I've done this myself.

 

If they're still IN the community, but have removed their mods from General Use, again, their wishes MUST be respected.

 

Hence, once again, the need for proper readmes. This goes for EVERYONE!!!!

 

To you joining us in the Freeware Accords Treaty (FAT), welcome!!! It can only strengthen the community, create more and BETTER mods, and increase the life-span of our favorite hobby. My personal thanks!

 

While I am generally in agreement with my colleague Wrench, The, I think that once a mod is released under a fair-use license it should be impossible to revoke that license. To allow that would defeat one of the major goals of the program, which is to ensure long-term availability and continuity. I'm only one voice though so there would have to be a general consensus on the matter, and the CA ownership would probably have to issue an official policy.

[Viggen 644]

Ok thanks for the clarification.

[Wrench 9,847]

While I am generally in agreement with my colleague Wrench, The, I think that once a mod is released under a fair-use license it would be impossible to revoke that license.

 

I agree wholeheartedly; but I'd like to change one word in that statement (it's the English Major in me).

 

Would needs to be replaceed by Should. But again, it goes back to the site owners making the final descision/judgement, in respecting the author's wishes.

 

Which leads us back in a circle to where we started; the loss of some good mods (pilot skins, ships, vehicles, aircraft, etc) on the "Open Market". Where, in all honesty, they should be. I know I'm gonna catch flak for that, but I can't help having my opinons.

 

My problem is, I see all 3 sides in a 2 sided argument (you gotta be Jewish to understand that one!)

 

Wrench, The ( that soooo cracks me up!)

kevin stein

[Guest Stiglr]

Mostly, that depends on the group. If they have a policy of NOT allowing use, or use only by permissions, that rule must be abided by.

 

Written permission MUST be obtained via emails, or forum postings, and MUST be contained in any readme that the mod is to be used in.

 

If they've LEFT entiretly, gone off and done something else, MY opinion is, it may be considered 'abandonware', and is open for mods. HOWEVER -you knew that was coming!!!- I'd most certainly make double-damm sure that you list them as the original creator in the readme of your mod. I've done this myself.

 

If they're still IN the community, but have removed their mods from General Use, again, their wishes MUST be respected.

 

Hence, once again, the need for proper readmes. This goes for EVERYONE!!!!

 

To you joining us in the Freeware Accords Treaty (FAT), welcome!!! It can only strengthen the community, create more and BETTER mods, and increase the life-span of our favorite hobby. My personal thanks!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Legally, though, if a person agrees to allow a sim to use their work and it gets released, they can't expect that every single person who ever downloaded it will erase if from their installs if the author later wants to stomp off in a huff and revoke said usage permission.

Basically, you can't put the genie back in the bottle once the cork's out.

 

At Targetware, the deal is, once a plane or object is released to the metaserver, and everyone can download the files, it is the non-exclusive property of Targetware (and by extension, the Targetware community). That is, Targetware has a right to use it, but the owner also has a right to be able to sell it (non-exclusively) to someone else.

That's the only way that really makes any sense for a moddable game community, and that can be expected to be enforced.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Stiglr

[+Dels 649]

You can count me in too.

[eraser_tr 29]

As soon as I feel the stuff I've been toying with for personal use is polished enough to upload, I'm all for it.

[column5 63]

Basically, you can't put the genie back in the bottle once the cork's out.

 

This is the second time in five years that I have agreed with you on something. Armageddon approacheth.

[+Hinchinbrooke 36]

Legally, though, if a person agrees to allow a sim to use their work and it gets released, they can't expect that every single person who ever downloaded it will erase if from their installs if the author later wants to stomp off in a huff and revoke said usage permission.

Basically, you can't put the genie back in the bottle once the cork's out.

 

At Targetware, the deal is, once a plane or object is released to the metaserver, and everyone can download the files, it is the non-exclusive property of Targetware (and by extension, the Targetware community). That is, Targetware has a right to use it, but the owner also has a right to be able to sell it (non-exclusively) to someone else.

That's the only way that really makes any sense for a moddable game community, and that can be expected to be enforced.

 

 

Ah, Stiglr!,

 

So awful............... almost lovable!!

 

Good times.

 

Anyway, how is the Targetware environment?

[TheChief2000 0]

You can add me to the list, even though I am mostly a lurker and my only submission to date is the external model for a VF-0S Valkyrie.

[kct 5]

I don't even know if I would learn modding anytime soon (eye-candy like HDR is not a solo effort), but I would chip in.

[Guest Stiglr]

Ah, Stiglr!,

 

So awful............... almost lovable!!

 

Good times.

 

Anyway, how is the Targetware environment?

 

It's still chugging along, albeit slower than I'd like.

 

Basically, we're all waiting for TW 2.0 which will be based in Lua and will really up the ante.

 

In the meantime, all us volunteers and mod leaders are trying to wring every last bit of juice out of 0.64, while waiting for delivery of the new engine. And we all take accuracy and realism VERY seriously. Which is why we can discuss the current failings with candor and a lack of "fanboi-ist" zealotry. We're not protecting our egos so much as we're trying to get things RIGHT.

 

 

Still, even with all the things we know are wrong with 0.64, for accuracy, it still beats any other sim out there for flight dynamics.

 

 

I had always hoped that kind of mentality would show up in this community and people would shed the "sim light" rationalization in favor of a modern-era sim that strove for realism first, "game" and graphics second. My hope for this is why I keep checking in here.

 

I suppose maybe that "could" happen here...or the developers of Targetware would develop the more modern era technology like in-flight radar, missiles and such, and then we modders could fully develop the modern wars ourselves.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Stiglr

[+Jug 99]

I wanted to raise the subject of fair-use modding again since our membership is steadily growing and many new modders have come onboard since we talked about it last.

 

Basically, many of us in the SF modding community are promoting the idea of "fair-use" modding. That is, when we release our work, we do so with minimal restrictions. Usually we only request that proper credit be given and that our original readme files be included if our work is incorporated into other projects. No need to ask for permission to modify, no need for secret handshakes to download, etc.

 

I'd like to encourage any new modders to consider this and sign up if you are agreeable! It is one of the best things we can do to keep our simming community strong and growing.

 

More info here:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=26131

 

The Jug is in. All due respect to the modders on this forum and, since I can offer only a bit of play with the .ini files, the best I can do is stand with them on this.

[MigBuster 2,884]

I had always hoped that kind of mentality would show up in this community and people would shed the "sim light" rationalization in favor of a modern-era sim that strove for realism first, "game" and graphics second. My hope for this is why I keep checking in here.

 

 

Sounds Like Open Falcon is what you want there.

 

 

The lure of this series and its strength lies in its 1960/70s setting and that its no where near as hard core as other sims. People can have fun sticking an F-14 in WW2 and hosing down some Zeros - and those who want to try and make the game near to realism can do also.

For example Navy F-4Bs and Js very rarely seemed to use any centreline gunpod - hense it was removed from their default loadouts - ok for me but not most peoples idea of fun.

 

Think the point being that any activities relating to realism are not forced on anyone - people are free to do what they like without being taken down by rivet counters.

 

 

 

Anyway back OT - sounds like a good scheme c5

[+wilco 11]

Count me in, even though I released only one skin so far.

[kct 5]

MigBuster: I see what you did there with The Final Countdown reference.

 

I would have to agree on what MigBuster said about the TW games and the "litesim" tag. If I remembered correctly, TK or someone else have mentioned that he does not want to make a game that feels like any other game out there in the market, hence the reason TW games are...unique in their own way.

 

I have seen both sides of the coin in flight games (downright arcade stuff) and the hardcore-er side of things (Falcon 4.0 and LOMAC comes to mind). In the end, I realized I would come back to TW games, because "people can have fun sticking an F-14 in WW2 and hosing down some Zeros - and those who want to try and make the game near to realism can do also" (not really, although I would want to use F-14s as the basis for a fiction...think of it as a reverse The Final Countdown).

Edited July 18, 2008 by kct

[+littlesmoke 64]

I'm not a modder, but count me in.