mppd Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I have no real world flying experience, but an F-4 driver that I talked to from the Michigan ANG told me that the high altitude performance (as in maneuverability) of the Phantom was just horrible above 35,000 ft. He said that at those altitudes or higher, the airplane simply won't turn in the thin air, and this is probably not even modeled correctly in the WOV series. He laughed at the thought of ACM at that altitude. Some of the real world pilots that frequent this forum could probably confirm that. Mike D.
Salamander67 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 My thoughts on the subject... 1) Generally I belive that the MiG-25 was not able to shoot down the SR-71, too fast, too high, to put it simply. 2) Aviation history is full of miracles, inferior planes holding their own, someone having a bad day. In a "Cold War gone hot"-situation, I belive that sooner or later some lucky guy (or unlucky Blackbird pilot, e.g. suffering some kind of a failure) probably would have damaged/downed a SR-71. Perhaps a lucky SAM, perhaps a perfect fighter intercept. Arguably though, the SA-2 seemed to be useless for the task. 3) About the intercepts over the Baltic I've read about them in Swedish books, the swedes having monitored it on radar. The SR-71 had to follow a quite small corridor, and the soviets could plot it for quite some time, knowing where it was going, it was possible to guide a MiG-25 in such a position (well below the Blackbird) that it could achive a radar lock for a few seconds. However, as the MiG was positioned well below and much slower, I doubt any missiles fired would have had even a remote chance of hitting their target. Put in the short reaction time (I might be wrong, but I think normal time they managed to have the target locked was betwen five and ten seconds). Personally I belive that the scenario above was possible, whether it would count as an intercept is a matter of interpretation (and national pride ). There were quite a number of different US/NATO-aircrafts flying over the Baltic sea, ranging from West German Atlantics and Tornadoes to the SR-71. The reason for using the SR-71 is that the higher you are, the further you can see, meaning that the Blackbird saw things that the lower-flying aircrafts didn't. 4) I have never heard about a Blackbird being intercepted in another area, if it happened, I bet there was *quite* a number of failed attempts for every succesfull one. And, finally: 5) The Thud was the fastest aircraft around down-in-the-grass in its time. Of course if the MiG is in front of you that still means you will run into trouble, and in a dogfight the Ultra-hog was too big for its own good, and a MiG-(insert any number over 15) would probably have an advantage, that's why the Thuds usually had escort from the "nimble" Phantoms. Bottomline: Some of the arguments that different people have been throwing at each other does not contradict each other The Blackbird may have been "intercepted", though that doesn't mean it was in mortal danger. The Thud was faster, though that doesn't mean that it was immune against MiG-21's.
+Fubar512 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 the sam-2 has a lethal radius of some 50 - 60 m iirc, so no way that a shrapnel can travel several thousands feet. so it must have been a close call. Yeah, right. The key word here is "LETHAL". I can shoot a .22 caliber rifle into the air, and while the round can travel much further than 1 km, it doesn't mean that it will retain enough velocity to kill anyone after a few hundred yards.. But, as it's falling, if it were to be hit by something traveling much faster than its initial muzzle velocity... Need I draw you a diagram? The SA-6 does not have the altitude performance to catch the SR-71, the SA-5 does. The best MiG-21 variant is aerodynamically incapable of exceeding Mach 1.06 at low level, '21F-13s, PFs, and PFMs could not exceed Mach 1 at low level.
+MigBuster Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 The SR-71 is a myth. Its a very beautifull plane of excellent performance, now doubt. But it was not unvulnerable. The MiG-25 was a very beautifull plane too, but it could intercept the Blackbird only at nearly perfect circumstances. The MiG-25R could fly recon missions over Israel without israeli Phantoms and Hawks had a chance to intercept them. Such missions were flown in October 1973.The MiG-31 was designed to counter the Cruise Missiles threat rather than the SR-71. Defend against the SR-71 was the job of the SAM, especially the SA-6 Gammon. Assume you mean SA-5 Gammon? Iranian F-4s with Sparrows had no luck intercepting Soviet MiG-25s either - the overflights had to be halted though when the F-14A /AIM-54A weapon system showed up and locked one up at about 65,000ft. If the MiG-31/25 had an equal system it could have made the difference.
kct Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 (edited) I thought they have, but used the idea on another plane instead (that huge Tupolev interceptor). And what about the Amos? Edited September 7, 2008 by kct
+Gepard Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 A new FM for the MiG-25. Simply copy the lines and overwrite the entries in MiG-25PD_data.ini . Make sure to backup your old FM. I have tested it with WOI. The plane has a better handling now, but sometimes it blows of on the runway while autopilot starts the bird. [MissionData] NationName=Syria ServiceStartYear=1977 ServiceEndYear=2010 AircraftRole=FIGHTER AircraftCapability=DAY_AND_NIGHT Availability=RARE Exported=FALSE PrimaryRoles=INTERCEPT SecondaryRoles=RECON NormalMissionRadius=900 MaxMissionRadius=1103 Ceiling=24402 MinBaseSize=MEDIUM [FlightControl] StallSpeed=56.90 CruiseSpeed=249.34 ClimbSpeed=290.27 CornerSpeed=184.43 LandingSpeed=59.59 MaxG=7.00 MaxSpeedSL=371 MachLimit=2.84 PitchDamper=0.7 RollDamper=0.4 YawDamper=0.0 SideslipDamper=0.0 GunBoresightAngle=0 RocketBoresightAngle=0 FlapSettingForLanding=2 FlapSettingForTakeOff=1 [StrafeAI] RollInRange=6000.0 RollInAlt=1500.0 PullOutRange=800.0 PullOutAlt=200.0 ReleaseRange=1300.0 SecondPassRange=4500.0 SecondPassAlt=1100.0 ReleaseInterval=1.0 AimPitchOffset=-0.3 [DetectSystem] RadarType=AIR_INTERCEPT RangeUnit=KM RadarAzimuthLimit=90 RadarElevationLimit=90 RadarSearchTime=1.0 RadarSearchRange=150 RadarSearchStrength=200 RadarTrackTime=2.0 RadarTrackRange=100 RadarTrackStrength=200 DopplerLookdown=TRUE VisualBlindArc=5,6,7 VisualRestrictedArc=4L,8L MaxVisibleDistance=8400.0 HasRWR=TRUE [Sound] EngineSoundName=JetEngine AfterburnerSoundName=JetBurner DamagedEngineSoundName= FlapsSoundName=Flaps AirbrakesSoundName=Airbrakes GearsSoundName=Gear [AircraftData] EmptyMass=20174.0 EmptyInertia=260995.5,31548.9,286808.2 ReferenceArea=61.40 ReferenceSpan=13.95 ReferenceChord=4.86 UseMetricUnit=TRUE CGPosition=0.0,0.20,0.0 Component[001]=Fuselage Component[002]=Nose Component[003]=LeftWing Component[004]=RightWing Component[005]=LeftOuterWing Component[006]=RightOuterWing Component[007]=LeftStab Component[008]=RightStab Component[009]=LeftVertTail Component[010]=RightVertTail [Fuselage] ModelNodeName=Fuselage ShowFromCockpit=True HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE CLa=0.0441 CD0=0.0128 CDL=0.0001 Cmq=-0.1396 Cmad=0.0116 Cyb=-0.0441 Cnb=-0.0468 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.181,1.022,1.000,0.993,0.992,1.510,0.687,0.627,0.581,0.547,0.518,0.489,0.462,0.446 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=132.695,83.563,48.358,24.759,10.445,3.095,0.387,0.000,0.387,3.095,10.445,24.759,48.358,83.563,132.695 CnbAlphaTableNumData=37 CnbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnbAlphaTableData=-0.214,-0.205,-0.177,-0.132,-0.072,0.003,0.090,0.186,0.288,0.393,-1.286,-1.147,-1.000,-0.856,-0.500,0.000,0.500,0.866,1.000,1.000,0.805,-0.171,-2.829,-4.067,-4.667,-1.533,-1.379,0.393,0.288,0.186,0.090,0.003,-0.072,-0.132,-0.177,-0.205,-0.214 MinExtentPosition=-1.40,-7.54,-1.17 MaxExtentPosition= 1.40, 5.66, 1.06 CollisionPoint[001]=-1.40, 5.66,-0.91 CollisionPoint[002]= 1.40, 5.66,-0.91 CollisionPoint[003]= 1.23,-3.74,-1.17 CollisionPoint[004]=-1.23,-3.74,-1.17 CollisionPoint[005]= 0.00,-7.54, 0.50 CollisionPoint[006]= 1.21, 5.66, 0.53 CollisionPoint[007]=-1.21, 5.66, 0.53 DamageRating=DESTROYED SystemName[001]=Engine1 SystemName[002]=Engine2 SystemName[003]=FuselageFuelCell1 SystemName[004]=FuselageFuelCell2 SystemName[005]=FuselageFuelCell3 SystemName[006]=FuselageFuelCell4 SystemName[007]=DecoyDispenser2 SystemName[008]=Airbrake SystemName[009]=LeftMainGear SystemName[010]=RightMainGear SystemName[011]=ECM SystemName[012]=DecoyDispenser1 SystemName[013]=LeftPositionLight SystemName[014]=RightPositionLight SystemName[015]=TopFuselageLight SystemName[016]=BottomFuselageLight SystemName[017]=LeftTailLight SystemName[018]=RightTailLight [Nose] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=nose ShowFromCockpit=FALSE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.297 HasAeroCoefficients=FALSE MinExtentPosition=-0.69, 3.24,-1.33 MaxExtentPosition= 0.69,10.03, 1.09 CollisionPoint[001]= 0.00, 9.05,-1.33 CollisionPoint[002]= 0.00,10.03,-0.79 CollisionPoint[003]= 0.00, 5.13, 1.09 SystemName[001]=Pilot SystemName[002]=NoseGear [LeftWing] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=LWing DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.059 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CLa=0.5986 CD0=0.0025 CDL=0.0013 Cmq=-0.6688 Cmad=0.0048 Cyb=-0.0133 Clb=0.0014 Clp=-0.0224 Clr=-0.0001 Cnp=-0.0004 Cnr=-0.0008 CLaMachTableNumData=14 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.994,0.995,1.000,1.008,1.020,1.055,1.134,1.098,1.100,1.103,1.075,1.009,0.948,0.893 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.597,1.078,1.000,0.974,1.007,3.856,2.350,2.378,2.021,1.787,1.628,1.506,1.409,1.330 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=49.000,36.000,25.000,16.000,9.000,4.000,1.000,0.000,1.000,4.000,9.000,16.000,25.000,36.000,49.000 CmqMachTableNumData=14 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.869,0.898,1.000,1.238,1.895,0.000,0.000,1.236,0.553,0.640,0.629,0.602,0.549,0.482 ClbAlphaTableNumData=37 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 ClbAlphaTableData=2.360,2.431,2.636,2.950,3.335,3.745,4.130,4.444,4.649,3.360,1.970,1.883,1.750,1.587,1.413,1.250,-10.722,-2.485,1.000,8.287,9.448,9.871,3.429,7.231,6.353,3.647,6.118,6.720,7.009,5.624,4.130,3.745,3.335,2.950,2.636,2.431,2.360 CnrAlphaTableNumData=37 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.000,0.004,0.015,0.034,0.060,0.094,0.134,0.181,0.234,0.293,0.357,0.426,0.500,0.577,0.658,0.741,0.826,0.913,1.000,0.913,0.826,0.741,0.658,0.577,0.500,0.426,0.357,0.293,0.234,0.181,0. 134,0.094,0.060,0.034,0.015,0.004,0.000 XacMachTableNumData=14 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.20 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=0.250,0.255,0.270,0.299,0.346,0.992,0.336,-0.024,-0.277,-0.403,-0.502,-0.574,-0.632,-0.682 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.1953 AlphaStall=15.94 AlphaMax=23.90 AlphaDepart=32.69 StallMoment=-0.006 StallDrag=0.004 StallLiftTableNumData=37 StallLiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallLiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallLiftTableData=0.000,-0.013,-0.027,-0.044,-0.060,-0.057,-0.049,-0.033,-0.014,0.000,0.018,0.052,0.098,0.146,0.212,0.256,0.356,0.556,0.945,0.613,0.379,0.277,0.220,0.175,0.124,0.077,0.040,0.000,-0.014,-0.033,-0.049,-0.057,-0.060,-0.044,-0.027,-0.013,0.000 StallDragTableNumData=37 StallDragTableDeltaX=10.00 StallDragTableStartX=-180.00 StallDragTableData=0.001,0.008,0.021,0.043,0.082,0.123,0.171,0.227,0.292,0.367,0.451,0.562,0.689,0.825,0.937,1.018,1.142,1.122,1.000,1.122,1.142,1.018,0.937,0.825,0.689,0.562,0.451,0.367,0.292,0.227,0 .171,0.123,0.082,0.043,0.021,0.008,0.001 StallXacShiftTableNumData=37 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallXacShiftTableData=-0.486,-0.486,-0.415,-0.374,-0.369,-0.355,-0.330,-0.304,-0.269,-0.243,-0.217,-0.182,-0.156,-0.131,-0.116,-0.112,-0.071,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.071,-0.112,-0.116,-0.131,-0.156,-0.182,-0.217,-0.243,-0.269,-0.304,-0.330,-0.355,-0.369,-0.374,-0.415,-0.486,-0.486 Chord=5.89 Ymac=-1.77 StructuralFactor=1.5 MinExtentPosition= -4.04,-2.24,-0.90 MaxExtentPosition= -1.22, 2.68,-0.50 CollisionPoint[001]=-4.04, 0.57,-0.76 CollisionPoint[002]=-4.04,-2.56,-0.76 SystemName[001]=LeftFlap SystemName[002]=LeftInnerWingStation SystemName[003]=LeftOuterWingStation SystemName[004]=ECMLinks SystemName[005]=LeftAileron [RightWing] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=RWing DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.059 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CLa=0.5986 CD0=0.0025 CDL=0.0013 Cmq=-0.6688 Cmad=0.0048 Cyb=-0.0133 Clb=0.0014 Clp=-0.0224 Clr=-0.0001 Cnp=-0.0004 Cnr=-0.0008 CLaMachTableNumData=14 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.994,0.995,1.000,1.008,1.020,1.055,1.134,1.098,1.100,1.103,1.075,1.009,0.948,0.893 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.597,1.078,1.000,0.974,1.007,3.856,2.350,2.378,2.021,1.787,1.628,1.506,1.409,1.330 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=49.000,36.000,25.000,16.000,9.000,4.000,1.000,0.000,1.000,4.000,9.000,16.000,25.000,36.000,49.000 CmqMachTableNumData=14 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.869,0.898,1.000,1.238,1.895,0.000,0.000,1.236,0.553,0.640,0.629,0.602,0.549,0.482 ClbAlphaTableNumData=37 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 ClbAlphaTableData=2.360,2.431,2.636,2.950,3.335,3.745,4.130,4.444,4.649,3.360,1.970,1.883,1.750,1.587,1.413,1.250,-10.722,-2.485,1.000,8.287,9.448,9.871,3.429,7.231,6.353,3.647,6.118,6.720,7.009,5.624,4.130,3.745,3.335,2.950,2.636,2.431,2.360 CnrAlphaTableNumData=37 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.000,0.004,0.015,0.034,0.060,0.094,0.134,0.181,0.234,0.293,0.357,0.426,0.500,0.577,0.658,0.741,0.826,0.913,1.000,0.913,0.826,0.741,0.658,0.577,0.500,0.426,0.357,0.293,0.234,0.181,0. 134,0.094,0.060,0.034,0.015,0.004,0.000 XacMachTableNumData=14 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.20 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=0.250,0.255,0.270,0.299,0.346,0.992,0.336,-0.024,-0.277,-0.403,-0.502,-0.574,-0.632,-0.682 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.1953 AlphaStall=15.94 AlphaMax=23.90 AlphaDepart=32.69 StallMoment=-0.006 StallDrag=0.004 StallLiftTableNumData=37 StallLiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallLiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallLiftTableData=0.000,-0.013,-0.027,-0.044,-0.060,-0.057,-0.049,-0.033,-0.014,0.000,0.018,0.052,0.098,0.146,0.212,0.256,0.356,0.556,0.945,0.613,0.379,0.277,0.220,0.175,0.124,0.077,0.040,0.000,-0.014,-0.033,-0.049,-0.057,-0.060,-0.044,-0.027,-0.013,0.000 StallDragTableNumData=37 StallDragTableDeltaX=10.00 StallDragTableStartX=-180.00 StallDragTableData=0.001,0.008,0.021,0.043,0.082,0.123,0.171,0.227,0.292,0.367,0.451,0.562,0.689,0.825,0.937,1.018,1.142,1.122,1.000,1.122,1.142,1.018,0.937,0.825,0.689,0.562,0.451,0.367,0.292,0.227,0 .171,0.123,0.082,0.043,0.021,0.008,0.001 StallXacShiftTableNumData=37 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallXacShiftTableData=-0.486,-0.486,-0.415,-0.374,-0.369,-0.355,-0.330,-0.304,-0.269,-0.243,-0.217,-0.182,-0.156,-0.131,-0.116,-0.112,-0.071,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.071,-0.112,-0.116,-0.131,-0.156,-0.182,-0.217,-0.243,-0.269,-0.304,-0.330,-0.355,-0.369,-0.374,-0.415,-0.486,-0.486 Chord=5.89 Ymac=1.77 StructuralFactor=1.5 MinExtentPosition= 4.04,-2.24,-0.90 MaxExtentPosition= 1.22, 2.68,-0.50 CollisionPoint[001]= 4.04, 0.57,-0.76 CollisionPoint[002]= 4.04,-2.56,-0.76 SystemName[001]=RightFlap SystemName[002]=RightInnerWingStation SystemName[003]=RightOuterWingStation SystemName[004]=ECMRechts SystemName[005]=RightAileron [LeftOuterWing] ParentComponentName=LeftWing ModelNodeName=LWng-Ext DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.044 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=0.0455 CLa=1.2129 CD0=0.0019 CDL=0.0041 Cmq=-0.8551 Cmad=-0.1257 Cyb=-0.0008 Clb=-0.0062 Clp=-0.1137 Clr=0.0018 Cnp=-0.0032 Cnr=-0.0068 CL0MachTableNumData=14 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=0.964,0.972,1.000,1.051,1.137,1.522,1.180,0.849,0.669,0.536,0.438,0.383,0.336,0.298 CLaMachTableNumData=14 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.964,0.972,1.000,1.051,1.137,1.522,1.180,0.849,0.669,0.536,0.438,0.383,0.336,0.298 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.618,1.088,1.000,0.977,1.013,2.343,1.432,1.453,1.271,1.152,1.070,1.006,0.953,0.909 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=32.749,23.837,16.338,10.251,5.576,2.313,0.463,0.025,1.000,3.387,7.186,12.398,19.021,27.057,36.506 CmqMachTableNumData=14 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.859,0.890,1.000,1.257,1.857,30.705,4.111,3.526,1.178,0.800,0.654,0.572,0.524,0.502 ClbAlphaTableNumData=37 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 ClbAlphaTableData=-1.353,-1.394,-1.512,-1.692,-1.912,-2.148,-2.368,-2.548,-2.666,-0.353,1.970,1.883,1.750,1.587,1.413,1.250,-10.722,-2.485,1.000,8.287,9.448,9.871,3.429,7.231,6.353,3.647,6.118,-0.707,-4.019,-3.225,-2.368,-2.148,-1.912,-1.692,-1.512,-1.394,-1.353 CnrAlphaTableNumData=37 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.000,0.004,0.015,0.034,0.060,0.094,0.134,0.181,0.234,0.293,0.357,0.426,0.500,0.577,0.658,0.741,0.826,0.913,1.000,0.913,0.826,0.741,0.658,0.577,0.500,0.426,0.357,0.293,0.234,0.181,0. 134,0.094,0.060,0.034,0.015,0.004,0.000 XacMachTableNumData=14 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.20 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-1.219,-1.228,-1.253,-1.299,-1.325,-0.876,-1.146,-1.245,-1.421,-1.548,-1.656,-1.725,-1.799,-1.865 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.4118 AlphaStall=15.94 AlphaMax=23.90 AlphaDepart=32.69 StallMoment=-0.013 StallDrag=0.001 StallLiftTableNumData=37 StallLiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallLiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallLiftTableData=0.000,-0.013,-0.028,-0.045,-0.062,-0.058,-0.050,-0.034,-0.014,0.000,0.018,0.053,0.100,0.149,0.216,0.261,0.363,0.567,0.964,0.625,0.386,0.282,0.225,0.178,0.126,0.079,0.040,0.000,-0.014,-0.034,-0.050,-0.058,-0.062,-0.045,-0.028,-0.013,0.000 StallDragTableNumData=37 StallDragTableDeltaX=10.00 StallDragTableStartX=-180.00 StallDragTableData=0.001,0.008,0.021,0.043,0.082,0.123,0.171,0.227,0.292,0.367,0.451,0.562,0.689,0.825,0.937,1.018,1.142,1.122,1.000,1.122,1.142,1.018,0.937,0.825,0.689,0.562,0.451,0.367,0.292,0.227,0 .171,0.123,0.082,0.043,0.021,0.008,0.001 StallXacShiftTableNumData=37 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallXacShiftTableData=-0.556,-0.556,-0.475,-0.427,-0.423,-0.406,-0.378,-0.348,-0.308,-0.278,-0.248,-0.208,-0.178,-0.150,-0.133,-0.128,-0.081,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.081,-0.128,-0.133,-0.150,-0.178,-0.208,-0.248,-0.278,-0.308,-0.348,-0.378,-0.406,-0.423,-0.427,-0.475,-0.556,-0.556 Chord=2.85 Ymac=-5.11 StructuralFactor=1.5 MinExtentPosition= -5.88,-2.83,-0.68 MaxExtentPosition= -4.04,-0.19,-0.44 CollisionPoint[001]=-5.88,-1.69,-0.37 CollisionPoint[002]=-5.88,-3.02,-0.37 HasVortexEmitter=TRUE VortexEmitterName=WingtipVortexEmitter VortexPosition=-6.57,-2.69,0.12 VortexG=2.5 SystemName[001]=LeftLEFlap SystemName[002]=LeftPositionLight [RightOuterWing] ParentComponentName=RightWing ModelNodeName=RWng-Ext DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.044 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=0.0455 CLa=1.2129 CD0=0.0019 CDL=0.0041 Cmq=-0.8551 Cmad=-0.1257 Cyb=-0.0008 Clb=-0.0062 Clp=-0.1137 Clr=0.0018 Cnp=-0.0032 Cnr=-0.0068 CL0MachTableNumData=14 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=0.964,0.972,1.000,1.051,1.137,1.522,1.180,0.849,0.669,0.536,0.438,0.383,0.336,0.298 CLaMachTableNumData=14 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.964,0.972,1.000,1.051,1.137,1.522,1.180,0.849,0.669,0.536,0.438,0.383,0.336,0.298 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.618,1.088,1.000,0.977,1.013,2.343,1.432,1.453,1.271,1.152,1.070,1.006,0.953,0.909 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=32.749,23.837,16.338,10.251,5.576,2.313,0.463,0.025,1.000,3.387,7.186,12.398,19.021,27.057,36.506 CmqMachTableNumData=14 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.859,0.890,1.000,1.257,1.857,30.705,4.111,3.526,1.178,0.800,0.654,0.572,0.524,0.502 ClbAlphaTableNumData=37 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 ClbAlphaTableData=-1.353,-1.394,-1.512,-1.692,-1.912,-2.148,-2.368,-2.548,-2.666,-0.353,1.970,1.883,1.750,1.587,1.413,1.250,-10.722,-2.485,1.000,8.287,9.448,9.871,3.429,7.231,6.353,3.647,6.118,-0.707,-4.019,-3.225,-2.368,-2.148,-1.912,-1.692,-1.512,-1.394,-1.353 CnrAlphaTableNumData=37 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.000,0.004,0.015,0.034,0.060,0.094,0.134,0.181,0.234,0.293,0.357,0.426,0.500,0.577,0.658,0.741,0.826,0.913,1.000,0.913,0.826,0.741,0.658,0.577,0.500,0.426,0.357,0.293,0.234,0.181,0. 134,0.094,0.060,0.034,0.015,0.004,0.000 XacMachTableNumData=14 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.20 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-1.219,-1.228,-1.253,-1.299,-1.325,-0.876,-1.146,-1.245,-1.421,-1.548,-1.656,-1.725,-1.799,-1.865 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.4118 AlphaStall=15.94 AlphaMax=23.90 AlphaDepart=32.69 StallMoment=-0.013 StallDrag=0.001 StallLiftTableNumData=37 StallLiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallLiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallLiftTableData=0.000,-0.013,-0.028,-0.045,-0.062,-0.058,-0.050,-0.034,-0.014,0.000,0.018,0.053,0.100,0.149,0.216,0.261,0.363,0.567,0.964,0.625,0.386,0.282,0.225,0.178,0.126,0.079,0.040,0.000,-0.014,-0.034,-0.050,-0.058,-0.062,-0.045,-0.028,-0.013,0.000 StallDragTableNumData=37 StallDragTableDeltaX=10.00 StallDragTableStartX=-180.00 StallDragTableData=0.001,0.008,0.021,0.043,0.082,0.123,0.171,0.227,0.292,0.367,0.451,0.562,0.689,0.825,0.937,1.018,1.142,1.122,1.000,1.122,1.142,1.018,0.937,0.825,0.689,0.562,0.451,0.367,0.292,0.227,0 .171,0.123,0.082,0.043,0.021,0.008,0.001 StallXacShiftTableNumData=37 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallXacShiftTableData=-0.556,-0.556,-0.475,-0.427,-0.423,-0.406,-0.378,-0.348,-0.308,-0.278,-0.248,-0.208,-0.178,-0.150,-0.133,-0.128,-0.081,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.081,-0.128,-0.133,-0.150,-0.178,-0.208,-0.248,-0.278,-0.308,-0.348,-0.378,-0.406,-0.423,-0.427,-0.475,-0.556,-0.556 Chord=2.85 Ymac=5.11 StructuralFactor=1.5 MinExtentPosition= 5.88,-2.83,-0.68 MaxExtentPosition= 4.04,-0.19,-0.44 CollisionPoint[001]= 5.88,-1.69,-0.37 CollisionPoint[002]= 5.88,-3.02,-0.37 HasVortexEmitter=TRUE VortexEmitterName=WingtipVortexEmitter VortexPosition=6.57,-2.69,0.12 VortexG=2.5 SystemName[001]=RightLEFlap SystemName[002]=RightPositionLight [LeftVertTail] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=LVTail DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.024 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE CD0=0.0019 Cyb=-0.3554 Cyp=-0.0143 Cyr=0.1644 Clb=-0.0288 Clp=-0.0012 Clr=0.0144 Cnb=0.1124 Cnp=-0.0429 Cnr=-0.7270 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.634,1.091,1.000,0.962,1.000,3.824,2.347,1.940,1.670,1.510,1.400,1.314,1.245,1.187 ClbAlphaTableNumData=37 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 ClbAlphaTableData=1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.845,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1. 000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000 CnbAlphaTableNumData=37 CnbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnbAlphaTableData=0.932,0.948,0.997,1.071,1.163,1.259,1.351,1.425,1.474,1.545,1.582,1.530,1.450,1.352,1.248,1.150,0.393,0.794,1.000,0.853,0.264,0.040,-0.544,-0.976,0.066,0.140,0.185,0.193,0.209,0.274,0.373,0.495,0.623,0.745,0.844,0.909,0.932 CnrAlphaTableNumData=37 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.069,0.073,0.076,0.075,0.071,0.063,0.051,0.036,0.021,0.005,-0.005,-0.011,-0.013,-0.004,0.685,0.849,0.572,0.860,0.965,0.880,0.345,0.230,0.259,0.394,0.052,0.025,0.010,0.005,0.000,0.002,0.009,0.020,0.032,0.043,0.054,0.062,0.069 StructuralFactor=1.5 MinExtentPosition= -0.10,-7.36,0.95 MaxExtentPosition= 0.10,-3.97,2.64 CollisionPoint[001]= 0.00,-7.35,2.64 CollisionPoint[002]= 0.00,-3.02,2.64 SystemName[001]=LeftRudder SystemName[002]=TailLight [RightVertTail] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=RVTail DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.024 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE CD0=0.0019 Cyb=-0.3554 Cyp=-0.0143 Cyr=0.1644 Clb=-0.0288 Clp=-0.0012 Clr=0.0144 Cnb=0.1124 Cnp=-0.0429 Cnr=-0.7270 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.634,1.091,1.000,0.962,1.000,3.824,2.347,1.940,1.670,1.510,1.400,1.314,1.245,1.187 ClbAlphaTableNumData=37 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 ClbAlphaTableData=1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.845,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1. 000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000 CnbAlphaTableNumData=37 CnbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnbAlphaTableData=0.932,0.948,0.997,1.071,1.163,1.259,1.351,1.425,1.474,1.545,1.582,1.530,1.450,1.352,1.248,1.150,0.393,0.794,1.000,0.853,0.264,0.040,-0.544,-0.976,0.066,0.140,0.185,0.193,0.209,0.274,0.373,0.495,0.623,0.745,0.844,0.909,0.932 CnrAlphaTableNumData=37 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.069,0.073,0.076,0.075,0.071,0.063,0.051,0.036,0.021,0.005,-0.005,-0.011,-0.013,-0.004,0.685,0.849,0.572,0.860,0.965,0.880,0.345,0.230,0.259,0.394,0.052,0.025,0.010,0.005,0.000,0.002,0.009,0.020,0.032,0.043,0.054,0.062,0.069 StructuralFactor=1.5 MinExtentPosition= -0.10,-7.36,0.95 MaxExtentPosition= 0.10,-3.97,2.64 CollisionPoint[001]= 0.00,-7.45,2.64 CollisionPoint[002]= 0.00,-6.02,2.67 SystemName[001]=RightRudder SystemName[002]=TailAntiCollisionLight [LeftStab] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=LStabilisa DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.015 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=-0.0515 CLa=0.4453 CD0=0.0014 CDL=0.0003 Cmq=-11.0927 Cmad=-0.9299 Clp=-0.0127 CL0MachTableNumData=14 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=1.329,1.336,1.000,0.485,0.292,0.137,0.134,0.120,0.114,0.108,0.101,0.092,0.084,0.118 CLaMachTableNumData=14 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.979,0.984,1.000,1.029,1.075,1.393,1.165,0.951,0.815,0.738,0.674,0.614,0.564,0.522 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.635,1.096,1.000,0.980,1.013,2.100,1.274,1.285,1.256,1.127,1.038,0.969,0.912,0.866 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=225.000,169.000,121.000,81.000,49.000,25.000,9.000,1.000,1.000,9.000,25.000,49.000,81.000,121.000,169.000 CmqMachTableNumData=14 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.978,0.983,1.000,1.029,1.076,0.629,0.543,0.450,0.390,0.361,0.332,0.303,0.279,0.259 XacMachTableNumData=14 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.20 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-6.172,-6.176,-6.187,-6.204,-6.235,-5.247,-5.486,-5.578,-5.659,-5.757,-5.807,-5.849,-5.888,-5.924 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.3192 AlphaStall=40.24 AlphaMax=48.32 AlphaDepart=58.57 StallLiftTableNumData=37 StallLiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallLiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallLiftTableData=0.000,-0.013,-0.028,-0.045,-0.061,-0.058,-0.050,-0.034,-0.014,0.000,0.018,0.053,0.100,0.149,0.215,0.260,0.362,0.564,0.959,0.623,0.385,0.281,0.224,0.177,0.126,0.079,0.040,0.000,-0.014,-0.034,-0.050,-0.058,-0.061,-0.045,-0.028,-0.013,0.000 StallDragTableNumData=37 StallDragTableDeltaX=10.00 StallDragTableStartX=-180.00 StallDragTableData=0.001,0.008,0.021,0.043,0.082,0.123,0.171,0.227,0.292,0.367,0.451,0.562,0.689,0.825,0.937,1.018,1.142,1.122,1.000,1.122,1.142,1.018,0.937,0.825,0.689,0.562,0.451,0.367,0.292,0.227,0 .171,0.123,0.082,0.043,0.021,0.008,0.001 StallXacShiftTableNumData=37 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallXacShiftTableData=-0.310,-0.310,-0.265,-0.238,-0.236,-0.226,-0.210,-0.194,-0.171,-0.155,-0.138,-0.116,-0.099,-0.083,-0.074,-0.071,-0.045,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.045,-0.071,-0.074,-0.083,-0.099,-0.116,-0.138,-0.155,-0.171,-0.194,-0.210,-0.226,-0.236,-0.238,-0.265,-0.310,-0.310 DownwashAlphaTableNumData=37 DownwashAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 DownwashAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 DownwashAlphaTableData=0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.000,-2.118,-4.171,-6.097,-7.838,-9.341,-10.560,-9.525,-4.794,0.400,5.583,10.278,11.253,9.954,8.353,6.497,4.444,2.257,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000 Chord=3.52 Ymac=-1.72 MovingSurface=TRUE ControlSystemID=1 MinExtentPosition= -2.54,-7.35,-0.22 MaxExtentPosition= -0.19,-5.37, 0.16 CollisionPoint[001]=-2.54,-6.77,-0.55 //CollisionPoint[002]=-2.54,-7.45,-0.55 DummyComponent=TRUE SystemName[001]=LeftStabilizer [RightStab] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=RStabilisa DestroyedNodeName= ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.015 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=-0.0515 CLa=0.4453 CD0=0.0014 CDL=0.0003 Cmq=-11.0927 Cmad=-0.9299 Clp=-0.0127 CL0MachTableNumData=14 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=1.329,1.336,1.000,0.485,0.292,0.137,0.134,0.120,0.114,0.108,0.101,0.092,0.084,0.118 CLaMachTableNumData=14 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.979,0.984,1.000,1.029,1.075,1.393,1.165,0.951,0.815,0.738,0.674,0.614,0.564,0.522 CD0MachTableNumData=14 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.635,1.096,1.000,0.980,1.013,2.100,1.274,1.285,1.256,1.127,1.038,0.969,0.912,0.866 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=225.000,169.000,121.000,81.000,49.000,25.000,9.000,1.000,1.000,9.000,25.000,49.000,81.000,121.000,169.000 CmqMachTableNumData=14 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.20 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.978,0.983,1.000,1.029,1.076,0.629,0.543,0.450,0.390,0.361,0.332,0.303,0.279,0.259 XacMachTableNumData=14 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.20 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-6.172,-6.176,-6.187,-6.204,-6.235,-5.247,-5.486,-5.578,-5.659,-5.757,-5.807,-5.849,-5.888,-5.924 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.3192 AlphaStall=40.24 AlphaMax=48.32 AlphaDepart=58.57 StallLiftTableNumData=37 StallLiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallLiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallLiftTableData=0.000,-0.013,-0.028,-0.045,-0.061,-0.058,-0.050,-0.034,-0.014,0.000,0.018,0.053,0.100,0.149,0.215,0.260,0.362,0.564,0.959,0.623,0.385,0.281,0.224,0.177,0.126,0.079,0.040,0.000,-0.014,-0.034,-0.050,-0.058,-0.061,-0.045,-0.028,-0.013,0.000 StallDragTableNumData=37 StallDragTableDeltaX=10.00 StallDragTableStartX=-180.00 StallDragTableData=0.001,0.008,0.021,0.043,0.082,0.123,0.171,0.227,0.292,0.367,0.451,0.562,0.689,0.825,0.937,1.018,1.142,1.122,1.000,1.122,1.142,1.018,0.937,0.825,0.689,0.562,0.451,0.367,0.292,0.227,0 .171,0.123,0.082,0.043,0.021,0.008,0.001 StallXacShiftTableNumData=37 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallXacShiftTableData=-0.310,-0.310,-0.265,-0.238,-0.236,-0.226,-0.210,-0.194,-0.171,-0.155,-0.138,-0.116,-0.099,-0.083,-0.074,-0.071,-0.045,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.045,-0.071,-0.074,-0.083,-0.099,-0.116,-0.138,-0.155,-0.171,-0.194,-0.210,-0.226,-0.236,-0.238,-0.265,-0.310,-0.310 DownwashAlphaTableNumData=37 DownwashAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 DownwashAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 DownwashAlphaTableData=0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.000,-2.118,-4.171,-6.097,-7.838,-9.341,-10.560,-9.525,-4.794,0.400,5.583,10.278,11.253,9.954,8.353,6.497,4.444,2.257,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000,0.000 Chord=3.52 Ymac=1.72 MovingSurface=TRUE ControlSystemID=1 MinExtentPosition= 2.54,-7.35,-0.22 MaxExtentPosition= 0.19,-5.37, 0.16 CollisionPoint[001]= 2.54,-6.77,-0.55 //CollisionPoint[002]= 2.54,-7.45,-0.55 DummyComponent=TRUE SystemName[001]=RightStabilizer // Crew --------------------------------------------------------- [Pilot] SystemType=PILOT_COCKPIT PilotModelName=PVOpilot SetCockpitPosition=TRUE Position=0.0000,6.1227,1.4425 MinExtentPosition=-0.25, 5.91,-0.20 MaxExtentPosition= 0.25, 6.99, 0.92 CanopyNodeName=Canopy-Frame // Engines --------------------------------------------------------- [Engine1] ReferenceName=Soyuz/Tumansky R-15BD-300 SystemType=JET_ENGINE InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL EngineID=1 HasAfterburner=TRUE NumAfterburnerStages=4 SLThrustDry=86300.0 SLThrustWet=110000.0 ThrustAngles=0.0,0.00,0.0 ThrustPosition=-0.854,-6.9751,0.579 ThrottleRate=0.5 NozzleAnimationID=8 IdleThrottle=0.10 IdleRPM=0.68 IdleNozzle=0.0 CruiseThrottle=0.37 CruiseRPM=0.82 CruiseNozzle=1.0 MilThrottle=0.65 MilRPM=1.00 MilNozzle=1.0 MaxThrottle=0.78 MaxRPM=1.00 MaxNozzle=1.0 FullABThrottle=1.12 FullABRPM=1.00 FullABNozzle=0.0 AltitudeTableNumData=10 AltitudeTableDeltaX=3048.0 AltitudeTableStartX=0.0 AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.802,0.634,0.596,0.481,0.388,0.206,0.147,0.105,0.000 DryMachTableNumData=4 DryMachTableDeltaX=0.4 DryMachTableStartX=0.0 DryMachTableData=1.000,0.980,1.172,0.000 WetMachTableNumData=7 WetMachTableDeltaX=0.4 WetMachTableStartX=0.0 WetMachTableData=1.000,0.991,1.207,1.683,2.473,2.750,3.027 MaxInletTemperature=120 GyroscopicInertia= TSFCM0=0.880 TSFCM1=1.290 AfterburnerTSFC=1.930 MinFuelFlow=0.01 AfterburnerEffectSize=1.5 ExhaustEmitterName=DirtyExhaustEmitter ExhaustPosition= -0.854,-6.9751,0.579 AfterburnerNodeName=afterburner1 AfterburnerEmitterName=F15AfterburnerEmitter MinExtentPosition=-1.13,-3.68,-1.02 MaxExtentPosition=-0.14, 2.36,-0.04 FireSuppression=TRUE GasTempMaxRPM=675.0 GasTempIdleRPM=420.0 GasTempChangeRate=0.0 OverheatTemp=950.0 DamageTempDelta=200.0 OilPressMaxRPM=35.0 OilPressIdleRPM=55.0 OilPressChangeRate=0.5 LowOilPress=12.0 LowOilTempDelta=400.0 [Engine2] ReferenceName=Soyuz/Tumansky R-15BD-300 SystemType=JET_ENGINE InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL EngineID=2 HasAfterburner=TRUE NumAfterburnerStages=4 SLThrustDry=86300.0 SLThrustWet=110000.0 ThrustAngles=0.0,0.00,0.0 ThrustPosition=0.854,-6.9751,0.579 ThrottleRate=0.5 NozzleAnimationID=8 IdleThrottle=0.10 IdleRPM=0.68 IdleNozzle=0.0 CruiseThrottle=0.37 CruiseRPM=0.82 CruiseNozzle=1.0 MilThrottle=1.0 MilRPM=0.65 MilNozzle=1.0 MaxThrottle=0.78 MaxRPM=1.00 MaxNozzle=1.0 FullABThrottle=1.12 FullABRPM=1.00 FullABNozzle=0.0 AltitudeTableNumData=10 AltitudeTableDeltaX=3048.0 AltitudeTableStartX=0.0 AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.802,0.634,0.596,0.481,0.388,0.206,0.147,0.105,0.000 DryMachTableNumData=4 DryMachTableDeltaX=0.4 DryMachTableStartX=0.0 DryMachTableData=1.000,0.980,1.172,0.000 WetMachTableNumData=7 WetMachTableDeltaX=0.4 WetMachTableStartX=0.0 WetMachTableData=1.000,0.991,1.207,1.683,2.473,2.750,3.027 MaxInletTemperature=120 GyroscopicInertia= TSFCM0=0.880 TSFCM1=1.290 AfterburnerTSFC=1.930 MinFuelFlow=0.01 AfterburnerEffectSize=1.5 ExhaustEmitterName=DirtyExhaustEmitter ExhaustPosition= 0.854,-6.9751,0.579 AfterburnerNodeName=afterburner2 AfterburnerEmitterName=F15AfterburnerEmitter MinExtentPosition= 1.13,-3.68,-1.02 MaxExtentPosition= 0.14, 2.36,-0.04 FireSuppression=TRUE GasTempMaxRPM=675.0 GasTempIdleRPM=420.0 GasTempChangeRate=0.0 OverheatTemp=950.0 DamageTempDelta=200.0 OilPressMaxRPM=35.0 OilPressIdleRPM=55.0 OilPressChangeRate=0.5 LowOilPress=12.0 LowOilTempDelta=400.0 // Control Surfaces --------------------------------------------------------- [LeftFlap] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE CLiftdc=0.30 CDdc=0.035 Cmdc=0.020 DeltaStallAlpha=-3.75 AreaRatio=1.00 DeploymentMethod=MANUAL_WITH_BLOWBACK Setting[1].Angle=15.0 Setting[1].DeployValue=113.2 Setting[1].RetractValue=120.9 Setting[2].Angle=45.0 Setting[2].DeployValue=113.2 Setting[2].RetractValue=120.9 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.2 ModelNodeName=LFlaps ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE AnimationID=2 [RightFlap] SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE CLiftdc=0.30 CDdc=0.035 Cmdc=0.020 DeltaStallAlpha=-3.75 AreaRatio=1.00 DeploymentMethod=MANUAL_WITH_BLOWBACK Setting[1].Angle=15.0 Setting[1].DeployValue=113.2 Setting[1].RetractValue=120.9 Setting[2].Angle=45.0 Setting[2].DeployValue=113.2 Setting[2].RetractValue=120.9 MaxDeflection=45.0 MinDeflection=0.0 ControlRate=0.2 ModelNodeName=RFlaps ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE AnimationID=2 [LeftStabilizer] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=PITCH_CONTROL SecondaryInputName=ROLL_CONTROL SecondaryInputFactor=0.41 MovingSurface=TRUE MaxDeflection=18.0 MinDeflection=-27.0 MaxControlSpeed=204.30 ControlRate=1.0 ModelNodeName=LStabilisa ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE [RightStabilizer] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=PITCH_CONTROL SecondaryInputName=ROLL_CONTROL SecondaryInputFactor=-0.41 MovingSurface=TRUE MaxDeflection=18.0 MinDeflection=-27.0 MaxControlSpeed=204.30 ControlRate=1.0 ModelNodeName=RStabilisa ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE [LeftAileron] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=ROLL_CONTROL MaxDeflection=20.0 MinDeflection=-20.0 CDdc=0.0174 Cldc=0.0140 Cndc=0.0205 CldcAlphaTableNumData=37 CldcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CldcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CldcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.940,0.766,0.500,0.174,-0.174,-0.500,-0.766,-0.940,-1.000,-0.940,-0.766,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.104,0.391,1.000,1.502,0.893,0.069,-0.433,0.104,0.059,-0.766,-0.940,-1.000,-0.940,-0.766,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.766,0.940,1.000 CndcAlphaTableNumData=37 CndcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CndcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CndcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.940,0.766,0.500,0.174,-0.174,-0.500,-0.766,-0.940,-1.000,-0.940,-0.766,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.195,0.976,1.000,0.878,1.000,0.561,-0.146,-0.073,-1.736,-1.666,-1.540,-1.300,-1.090,-0.816,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.766,0.940,1.000 MaxControlSpeed=272.19 ControlRate=2.0 ModelNodeName=LAileron ReverseModelOrientation=False [RightAileron] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=ROLL_CONTROL MaxDeflection=20.0 MinDeflection=-20.0 CDdc=0.0174 Cldc=0.0140 Cndc=0.0205 CldcAlphaTableNumData=37 CldcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CldcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CldcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.940,0.766,0.500,0.174,-0.174,-0.500,-0.766,-0.940,-1.000,-0.940,-0.766,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.104,0.391,1.000,1.502,0.893,0.069,-0.433,0.104,0.059,-0.766,-0.940,-1.000,-0.940,-0.766,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.766,0.940,1.000 CndcAlphaTableNumData=37 CndcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CndcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CndcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.940,0.766,0.500,0.174,-0.174,-0.500,-0.766,-0.940,-1.000,-0.940,-0.766,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.195,0.976,1.000,0.878,1.000,0.561,-0.146,-0.073,-1.736,-1.666,-1.540,-1.300,-1.090,-0.816,-0.500,-0.174,0.174,0.500,0.766,0.940,1.000 MaxControlSpeed=272.19 ControlRate=2.0 ModelNodeName=RAileron ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE [LeftRudder] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=YAW_CONTROL ReverseInput=TRUE MaxDeflection=30.0 MinDeflection=-30.0 CDdc=0.0071 Cydc=0.1044 Cldc=0.0179 Cndc=-0.0237 CydcAlphaTableNumData=37 CydcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CydcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CydcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.970,0.883,0.750,0.587,0.413,0.250,0.117,0.030,0.000,0.030,0.117,0.250,0.413,0.587,0.750,0.527,0.957,1.000,1.000,0.715,0.285,0.237,0.237,0.237,0.117,0.030,0.000,0.030,0.117,0 .250,0.413,0.587,0.750,0.883,0.970,1.000 CldcAlphaTableNumData=37 CldcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CldcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CldcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.433,-0.125,-0.608,-0.957,-1.131,-1.108,-0.891,-0.506,0.000,0.567,1.125,1.608,1.957,2.131,2.108,0.846,1.077,1.000,0.692,0.615,0.538,0.308,0.385,-0.445,-0.365,-0.539,-0.627,-0.731,-0.967,-1.286,-1.617,-1.861,-1.947,-1.823,-1.493,-1.000 CndcAlphaTableNumData=37 CndcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CndcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CndcAlphaTableData=-1.000,-0.985,-0.940,-0.866,-0.766,-0.643,-0.500,-0.342,-0.174,0.000,0.174,0.342,0.500,0.643,0.766,0.866,0.711,0.876,1.000,0.969,1.031,0.340,0.124,0.093,0.023,0.034,0.139,0.058,0.112,0.294,0.400,0.531,0.669,0.800,0.906,0.976,1.000 MaxControlSpeed=153.57 ControlRate=2.0 ModelNodeName=LRudder RotationAxis=Z-Axis ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE [RightRudder] SystemType=CONTROL_SURFACE InputName=YAW_CONTROL ReverseInput=TRUE MaxDeflection=30.0 MinDeflection=-30.0 CDdc=0.0071 Cydc=0.1044 Cldc=0.0179 Cndc=-0.0237 CydcAlphaTableNumData=37 CydcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CydcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CydcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.970,0.883,0.750,0.587,0.413,0.250,0.117,0.030,0.000,0.030,0.117,0.250,0.413,0.587,0.750,0.527,0.957,1.000,1.000,0.715,0.285,0.237,0.237,0.237,0.117,0.030,0.000,0.030,0.117,0 .250,0.413,0.587,0.750,0.883,0.970,1.000 CldcAlphaTableNumData=37 CldcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CldcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CldcAlphaTableData=1.000,0.433,-0.125,-0.608,-0.957,-1.131,-1.108,-0.891,-0.506,0.000,0.567,1.125,1.608,1.957,2.131,2.108,0.846,1.077,1.000,0.692,0.615,0.538,0.308,0.385,-0.445,-0.365,-0.539,-0.627,-0.731,-0.967,-1.286,-1.617,-1.861,-1.947,-1.823,-1.493,-1.000 CndcAlphaTableNumData=37 CndcAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CndcAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CndcAlphaTableData=-1.000,-0.985,-0.940,-0.866,-0.766,-0.643,-0.500,-0.342,-0.174,0.000,0.174,0.342,0.500,0.643,0.766,0.866,0.711,0.876,1.000,0.969,1.031,0.340,0.124,0.093,0.023,0.034,0.139,0.058,0.112,0.294,0.400,0.531,0.669,0.800,0.906,0.976,1.000 MaxControlSpeed=153.57 ControlRate=2.0 ModelNodeName=RRudder RotationAxis=Z-Axis ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE // Internal Guns --------------------------------------------------------- // Weapon Stations --------------------------------------------------------- [LeftOuterWingStation] SystemType=WEAPON_STATION StationID=1 StationGroupID=1 StationType=EXTERNAL AttachmentPosition= -4.5280,-1.5390,0.3433 AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0 EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-1.0 LoadLimit=1000 AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET ModelNodeName=Station1 PylonMass=86.18 PylonDragArea=0.02 [RightOuterWingStation] SystemType=WEAPON_STATION StationID=2 StationGroupID=1 StationType=EXTERNAL AttachmentPosition= 4.5280,-1.5387,0.3433 AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0 EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-1.0 LoadLimit=1000 AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET ModelNodeName=Station4 PylonMass=86.18 PylonDragArea=0.02 [LeftInnerWingStation] SystemType=WEAPON_STATION StationID=3 StationGroupID=2 StationType=EXTERNAL AttachmentPosition= -3.4120,-0.3715,0.3930 AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0 EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-1.0 LoadLimit=1000 AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM,ARM AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET ModelNodeName=Station2 PylonMass=86.18 PylonDragArea=0.02 [RightInnerWingStation] SystemType=WEAPON_STATION StationID=4 StationGroupID=2 StationType=EXTERNAL AttachmentPosition= 3.4122,-0.3715,0.3935 AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0 EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-1.0 LoadLimit=1000 AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM,ARM AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET ModelNodeName=Station3 PylonMass=86.18 PylonDragArea=0.02 [ECM] SystemType=ECM_JAMMER JammerType=NOISE_JAMMER JammerStrength=60.0 MinExtentPosition= -0.23, 1.60, 0.74 MaxExtentPosition= 0.23, 1.60, 1.00 [ECMLinks] SystemType=ECM_JAMMER JammerType=DECEPTIVE_JAMMER JammerStrength=50.0 MinExtentPosition= -4.04,-2.24,-0.90 MaxExtentPosition= -4.14,-2.24,-0.90 [ECMRechts] SystemType=ECM_JAMMER JammerType=DECEPTIVE_JAMMER JammerStrength=50.0 MinExtentPosition= 4.04,-2.24,-0.90 MaxExtentPosition= 4.14,-2.24,-0.90 [DecoyDispenser1] SystemType=DECOY_DISPENSER EjectPosition=0.20,1.60,1.0 EjectVelocity=0.50,0.0,9.70 NumFlare=20 NumChaff=40 MinExtentPosition= -0.23, 1.60, 0.74 MaxExtentPosition= 0.23, 2.99, 1.15 [DecoyDispenser2] SystemType=DECOY_DISPENSER EjectPosition=-0.20,1.60,1.0 EjectVelocity=-0.50,0.0,9.70 NumFlare=20 NumChaff=40 MinExtentPosition= -0.23, 1.60, 0.74 MaxExtentPosition= 0.23, 2.99, 1.15 // Fuel Tanks --------------------------------------------------------- [FuselageFuelCell1] SystemType=FUEL_TANK FuelTankID=1 MaxFuelAmount=3400 SelfHealing=TRUE FireSuppression=TRUE MinExtentPosition=-0.46, 3.27, 0.60 MaxExtentPosition= 0.46, 1.71, 0.92 Armor[FRONT].Thickness=6 Armor[RIGHT].Thickness=6 Armor[LEFT].Thickness=6 Armor[REAR].Thickness=6 Armor[TOP].Thickness=6 Armor[BOTTOM].Thickness=6 [FuselageFuelCell2] SystemType=FUEL_TANK FuelTankID=2 MaxFuelAmount=3400 SelfHealing=TRUE FireSuppression=TRUE MinExtentPosition=-0.46, 1.68, 0.60 MaxExtentPosition= 0.46, 0.80, 0.92 Armor[FRONT].Thickness=6 Armor[RIGHT].Thickness=6 Armor[LEFT].Thickness=6 Armor[REAR].Thickness=6 Armor[TOP].Thickness=6 Armor[BOTTOM].Thickness=6 [FuselageFuelCell3] SystemType=FUEL_TANK FuelTankID=3 MaxFuelAmount=3400 SelfHealing=TRUE FireSuppression=TRUE MinExtentPosition=-0.46, 0.76, 0.50 MaxExtentPosition= 0.46,-0.80, 0.92 Armor[FRONT].Thickness=6 Armor[RIGHT].Thickness=6 Armor[LEFT].Thickness=6 Armor[REAR].Thickness=6 Armor[TOP].Thickness=6 Armor[BOTTOM].Thickness=6 [FuselageFuelCell4] SystemType=FUEL_TANK FuelTankID=4 MaxFuelAmount=3400 SelfHealing=TRUE FireSuppression=TRUE MinExtentPosition=-0.46,-1.81, 0.44 MaxExtentPosition= 0.46,-0.81, 0.92 Armor[FRONT].Thickness=6 Armor[RIGHT].Thickness=6 Armor[LEFT].Thickness=6 Armor[REAR].Thickness=6 Armor[TOP].Thickness=6 Armor[BOTTOM].Thickness=6 // Landing Gears --------------------------------------------------------- [NoseGear] SystemType=LANDING_GEAR Retractable=TRUE DeployTime=5.0 AnimationID=1 DragArea=0.25 HideGearNode=FALSE ModelNodeName=FW-Strut01 InsideNodeName= ShockAnimationID=4 ShockStroke=0.40 SpringFactor=2.0 DampingFactor=1.0 WheelNodeName=FW-Wheel RotationAxis=X-Axis RollingRadius=0.348 CastoringWheel=TRUE CastoringNodeName=FW-ax Steerable=TRUE MaxSteeringSpeed=41.15 Locking=FALSE MaxSteeringAngle=45.0 InputName=YAW_CONTROL ControlRate=1.0 HasBrakes=FALSE RollingCoefficient=0.05 MaxDeploySpeed=128.61 MaxLoadFactor=5.0 [LeftMainGear] SystemType=LANDING_GEAR Retractable=TRUE DeployTime=5.0 AnimationID=1 DragArea=0.50 HideGearNode=TRUE ModelNodeName=BW-LMain ShockAnimationID=6 ShockStroke=0.25 SpringFactor=4.0 DampingFactor=2.0 WheelNodeName=BW-LWheel RotationAxis=X-Axis RollingRadius=0.543 CastoringWheel=FALSE HasBrakes=TRUE BrakingCoefficient=0.75 RollingCoefficient=0.05 MaxDeploySpeed=128.61 MaxLoadFactor=6.0 [RightMainGear] SystemType=LANDING_GEAR Retractable=TRUE DeployTime=5.0 AnimationID=1 DragArea=0.50 HideGearNode=TRUE ModelNodeName=BW-RMain ShockAnimationID=7 ShockStroke=0.25 SpringFactor=4.0 DampingFactor=2.0 WheelNodeName=BW-RWheel RotationAxis=X-Axis RollingRadius=0.543 CastoringWheel=FALSE HasBrakes=TRUE BrakingCoefficient=0.75 RollingCoefficient=0.05 MaxDeploySpeed=128.61 MaxLoadFactor=6.0 // Airbrakes --------------------------------------------------------- [Airbrake] SystemType=AIRBRAKE DeployTime=3.0 RetractTime=1.5 ModelNodeName=Airbrake AnimationID=4 DragArea=3.06 // Lights --------------------------------------------------------- [LeftPositionLight] SystemType=LIGHT Position=-4.802,-1.0,0.769 LightSrcOffset=-0.20,0.00,0.00 Color=0.98,0.25,0.25 Brightness=0.03 LightSrcRange=0.9 CanFlash=FALSE [RightPositionLight] SystemType=LIGHT Position=4.802,-1.0,0.769 LightSrcOffset=-0.20,0.00,0.00 Color=0.25,0.98,0.25 Brightness=0.03 LightSrcRange=0.9 CanFlash=FALSE [TopFuselageLight] SystemType=LIGHT Color=0.88,0.88,0.88 Brightness=0.05 Position=0.0,1.60,1.70 LightSrcOffset=0.0,0.0,0.0 LightSrcRange=0.5 CanFlash=TRUE FlashTime=0.20 [BottomFuselageLight] SystemType=LIGHT Color=0.88,0.88,0.88 Brightness=0.05 Position=0.0,6.80,-0.60 LightSrcOffset=0.0,0.0,0.1 LightSrcRange=0.9 CanFlash=TRUE FlashTime=0.20 [LeftAntiCollisionLight] SystemType=LIGHT Color=0.66,0.66,0.60 Brightness=0.02 Position=-2.66,1.24,0.25 LightSrcOffset=0.0,0.0,0.1 LightSrcRange=0.5 CanFlash=TRUE FlashTime=0.70 [LeftTailLight] SystemType=LIGHT Color=1.0,1.0,1.0 Brightness=0.03 Position=-1.716,-7.5,3.6 LightSrcOffset=0.0,0.0,0.0 LightSrcRange=0.5 CanFlash=FALSE [RightTailLight] SystemType=LIGHT Color=0.88,0.88,0.88 Brightness=0.03 Position=1.716,-7.5,3.6 LightSrcOffset=-0.0,0.0,0.0 LightSrcRange=0.5 CanFlash=FALSE
jaeger_301 Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 Concerning the F-105 vs MIG21 i think you might have to think again. Look at it from this perspective...what were the aircraft designed to do and could each do the others job? Of course not. The big difference historically being that Thuds had a lot of Mig kills while MIG 21s weren't exactly useful at hauling heavy loads of ordnance. The F-105 wasn't "allegedly" the "fastest runner on the deck". It WAS the fastest, common knowledge at the time. You can read accounts of Thunderchief pilots going as low as 30 ft while supersonic. Like i posted above, good luck catching me down there. In this sim i've been at times 700+kts at 50ft while egressing. Please explain how a MIG21 is going to get on my six and shoot me down? during the ingress the GCI placed the MIG 21 and even 17 above the Thuds, they dived on the bombladen Thuds to gain enough speed. For the NVA it was a success when the Thuds had to drop there bombload. Some F105 pilots describe misguided interceptions when the MIG s flew in formation the the howling Thuds. The primary target for the MIGS during egress where battledamaged planes or mishapps called at that time , to give them the coup de grace. during the egress of Ed Rasimus the engine nozzles didn t close and sure enough he had soon a MIG on his 6. Jaeger
Salamander67 Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Found my source about the Blackbirds over the Baltic sea, a swedish book about the GCI's of the swedish air force. The Blackbirds flew a more or less standard track, starting at RAF Mildenhall, flying over Bornholm (Denmark), turning north and coming back over international water between Gotland and Öland. For those with no map it means passing through a narrow strait, which means that the aircraft has to hold a straigth course. Contrary to what I rembered the writer doesn't mention any successfull intercepts. A MiG-25 based in DDR chased a Blackbird all the way back 30 km inside danish territory, failing to close in for a real intercept. Instead, the PVO installed long-range SAM's at Hiiumaa that painted the aircraft when it flew by. The swedes could use the avialbility of the narrow strait though, and managed to guide head-on intercepts a few times. This usually required that the aircrafts, J35 Draken's and JA37 Viggen's, being airborne when the Blackbird appeard over Denmark. If they were lucky and had good guys at the radar they could meet the aircraft for one head-on pass when it flew on the part of the course that was predictable. Calling it an "intercept" probably is an overstatement. The only real intercept happened on the 29th of June 1987 when a SR-71 appeard "low" (well, for a Blackbird) over Gotland. An airborne element with two JA37 first intercepted it and found that only one engine was lit. A while later a second element that had been standing quick reaction alert at a Base in southern Sweden started and also managed to close in on the damaged bird and take a few pcitures of it. It was then escorted to Denmark where dansih fighters were waiting for it. But as said, the aircraft was flying on one engine, so this doesnät probably count as a "true" intercept either.
Lexx_Luthor Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Blast effects are poor at high altitude. But, shrapnel can travel very far very fast up there. If that S-75 detonation happened several thousand feet below the A-12, by the time that piece of shrapnel got up there, slowing down from dragg and gravity, the A-12 was possibly moving faster and flew into it, like a bird strike. If the Ussians did not allow SR-71s over Russian lands, it might have been because of the existence of nuclular armed SAMs. That's just a guess, but one that makes some sense for now. MiGbuster:: Iranian F-4s with Sparrows had no luck intercepting Soviet MiG-25s either - the overflights had to be halted though when the F-14A /AIM-54A weapon system showed up and locked one up at about 65,000ft. After the F-14, the best potential tactical frontline fighter for all out warfare in the first Ussian/Iraq War was MiG-25, assuming everything else equal (military budget, electronic warfare, numbers in the air, etc...). For me, the late Cold War retreat to "samauri" Turn-and-Boyd dogfighting at slow speeds WW2 Japanese style meant the end of military aviation, and coincides with the retreat of public interest in military aviation since the 1960s, that and the various limited hot wars tarnished previously shiny war machines of all nations.
Lt. James Cater Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 during the ingress the GCI placed the MIG 21 and even 17 above the Thuds, they dived on the bombladen Thuds to gain enough speed. For the NVA it was a success when the Thuds had to drop there bombload.Some F105 pilots describe misguided interceptions when the MIG s flew in formation the the howling Thuds. The primary target for the MIGS during egress where battledamaged planes or mishapps called at that time , to give them the coup de grace. during the egress of Ed Rasimus the engine nozzles didn t close and sure enough he had soon a MIG on his 6. Jaeger What you posted is the typical NV GCI tactic. It worked more often than not. The point in question is about a MIG21 catching a Thud that's at full throttle in the weeds. From everything i've researched about the two aircraft i don't think it's possible. If the 105 is say around, 5-18000 ft at typical ingress and egress speeds a 21 should be able to catch one with no problem if it gets the right info from GCI and the US pilots aren't on the ball. The difficulty begins when the Thud pilots go right down to the deck at full burner. Thrust is relative to height. F4 pilots learned to deal with 21s by tactics which at times involved dragging MIGS down from altitude to where the Phantom had the power advantage and making the MIG do high g turns so it's energy would bleed off. The J-79s had a much greater thrust at lower altitudes than the Tumansky on the 21. Given crews knew what they were doing, they could more than hold their own with a MIG 21. Now look at the Thud, very streamlined for an aircraft of it's size. Designed for low level operations. Rock steady at high speeds just off the treetops. Powered by an engine thats rated at close to 25000lbs thrust. Let the Lead Sled get a dive from altitude to right above (under 100ft) the ground while at full bore and only a sheer miracle on the enemies part will result in an air to air kill for a MIG. The historical fact is that F-105s were lost to MIGs. But also consider that not only was AAA responsible for the majority of losses, Thuds scored enough kills to be considered respectible even though it wasn't even remotely designed for the A2A role.
Jug Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 Assume you mean SA-5 Gammon? Iranian F-4s with Sparrows had no luck intercepting Soviet MiG-25s either - the overflights had to be halted though when the F-14A /AIM-54A weapon system showed up and locked one up at about 65,000ft. If the MiG-31/25 had an equal system it could have made the difference. You know, this thread is full of excellent thoughts, observations, and quoted sources, but at the end of the day, the SR-71 was a huge target for the Sovs and they wanted a kill against one in the worst way. It never happened. Vary the intercepts, vary the SAM type, vary the number of shots, etc., etc. None were ever shot down! Whatever the bird really could do and whatever the Sovs wanted to do to it, the Blackbird escaped and the methods to prevent its escape did not work. Case closed, game over. On the issue of the MiG-21 vs my awesome Thud, remember that success in the sky is totally dependent on the driver, not the machine. MiGs may have killed Thuds because the Thud pilot screwed the pooch or because the MiG pilot was lucky. From a machine standpoint, the Thud was unmatched as a worm-burner, period. Ok, guys cut loose on that.
Lt. James Cater Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 Come to think of it, the original question has been answered and many other things have been explored as well. IMO i don't think anything else can come about from this thread other than a possible flame war. Perhaps a MOD should lock it?
+column5 Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 Not a bad idea. The subject has been covered.
Recommended Posts