Anyone noticed this post by TK...?

[+Stary 2,427]

It's here:

 

http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...d=a&start=8

 

"Like streakeagle says, we do have a long list of things we still want to do. Because of budget constraints, what we want to do isn't the same as what we can afford to do. So we do have to prioritize things around, and I don't think its any secret that we try to put fun/game ahead of realism/simulation. But ultimately, what constitute "fun" is subjective and different for everyone, what one person might consider fun might not be so fun to the others (air-refueling, another often asked feature, comes to mind And this is just one of those example of what I consider might be a "fun" feature to add

 

TK"

 

hmm... who knows?

[+Crusader 2,101]

From how I get it, I think TKs comment ( marked red above) is aimed at the switching cockpits function..

[crl848 9]

From how I get it, I think TKs comment ( marked red above) is aimed at the switching cockpits function..

 

Yeah, he seems to be saying that some people don't find the idea of aerial refueling fun. As I do. Refueling = ALT N to me.

[+Stary 2,427]

Seems I got it wrong... the idea of switching cockpits is interesting too.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I send them an Email and asked about some informations, not to give it to me :-P

 

"Sorry to say, we can’t give it out and the USAF will not allow the game to be downloaded.

 

 

 

Sucks."

 

Mh ok

[JediMaster 451]

Maybe when it gets older and the USAF moves on to the next thing...

[zmatt 2]

What do you mean by switching cockpits?

[+ST0RM 145]

What sucks is that I've never seen the USAF version that TK did a few years back. None of the recruiters I know have either. I wonder where it went and what became of it.

 

-S

[+EricJ 4,245]

Probably didn't bite or didn't find it appealing. Strange he mentions the air refuelling bit about the USAF version.... I mean I've refuelled American, and Russian in LOMAC, and not so sure it was so "classified" but that's TK's call, if I understood his post right.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Maybe he just thinks that the lite-simmers will find it excruciating since they can do just about everything else straight away and with great ease, where as refueling is a very precise proceedure. ...or maybe he had a bad experience with refueling in Afterburner... which was a mofo! I mean, we could guess at it all day.

 

 

Personally, I'd dig it if it was introduced, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over what he adds or not. I've enjoyed what he's done so far (although I miss Snoopy), I don't think I'll dislike where it'll go.

[+Spectre_USA 7]

I don't miss Snoopy too much, but would LOVE a Snoopy that worked!

 

The switching cockpits dealio sounds cool, but I ain't holding my breath. There are other things I'd like to see more, like a save button for any mission generated...

[MetalMania 0]

I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea what the "cost" to implement something into a game engine is. I certainly don't want to sound like I'm bitching either, because I have been able to enjoy playing Strike Fighters in a way that I have not had the time to achieve in other sims I'm interested in. I appreciate all the work TK has done in the series and will always be interested in whatever product rolls out of the Third Wire hangar. The same can be said for the modders who have infinitely broadened the appeal of the series and ensured its longevity.

 

That being said, and I admit I have no technical background to counter what I'm about to say, but I just don't see why implementing a rudimentary air-refueling code is such a big deal. It's been present in a whole bunch of sims/games for many years so it's not like it's unprecedented. I for one don't care if you have to expertly fly into position - I'd be happy enough with "fly into a box area x distance from the tanker and press 'shift-R'" or something, which then triggers an animation of the model of your plane connecting to the boom of the tanker model for a few seconds and then presto! Your tanks are full. I would guess the refueling receptacle could be programmed as an attatchment point/weapons station or something that the game would always connect the boom or drogue to, so it could be in a different location for each aircraft type. For me it's more about if I want to fly all the way home but need to top off to make it, I can do it. If someone doesn't want to bother with it, Alt-N or Esc after mission accomplished and no penalties applied.

 

I feel the same about a mission recorder/replay capability. Not unprecedented and has been around for a long time in many titles. Even if it only worked with "original equipment" and not guaranteed for mods (but better if it did) - OK. None of them are deal breakers - but I just don't see why they "can't" be done. Maybe a next generation game engine would better support them.

 

Obviously Third Wire has budget limitations, totally understandable. I wonder if it would be feasible for TK to somehow work out say the top 5 features that people want (FEATURES supported in the game engine - not particular planes or theaters), identify what the cost to implement them is, and then open up a donation system. When enough money is raised, the features are implemented. I think it's fair to say that given his attention to the community and dedication to supporting the series (free updates to current standards for all of the titles!) that he's not likely going to rip us off. It probably wouldn't totally offset the cost obstacles, but might allow them to be overcome faster. Then whatever the next title that comes out and includes them is that much of a stronger product which hopefully drives more sales and so on.

 

Or, what's the typical price of a new TW sim - $19.99? $29.99? Cheap by today's standards. Would you pay another $10 - $20 for the next title if it had refueling, a mission recorder, built in mission editor, more X Y and Z and retained the moddability? I would - it's still within the cost of your average XBox or Playstation game with waaaaaaay more longevity.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Nice post. And do like the idea of donations, since I've given out money for worthy causes. Sure the TW sims aren't the greatest... but if given the chance to donate to improve it.... I would wholeheartedly, as it is worth it!

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Very well stated, MetalMania.

 

I also would get behind something like that. Maybe a poll on the 3rdwire site, choose the top 5, have calculations made, and a goal-o-meter.

 

If it makes it, off we go. If the number is never reached, too bad, so sad. The latter would be a sticking point, but a refund would be a logistics nightmare...

[+Jarhead1 27]

Well even if people donate, and the goal isnt reached, then maybe TK could drop the price for the game a little bit, since he had a little added funding for it ya know?

 

 

But it would be nice to be able to do more stuff, especially mid air refueling, because there have been many times I have ran dry and been at max fuel conserve to make it back to the boat.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Very well stated, MetalMania.

 

I also would get behind something like that. Maybe a poll on the 3rdwire site, choose the top 5, have calculations made, and a goal-o-meter.

 

If it makes it, off we go. If the number is never reached, too bad, so sad. The latter would be a sticking point, but a refund would be a logistics nightmare...

 

 

Does there really have to be a goal? How about a donation collection every 6 months or maybe every year and then use what was collected during that time period to help fund 3rdwire?

[jomni 6]

Would you pay another $10 - $20 for the next title if it had refueling, a mission recorder, built in mission editor, more X Y and Z and retained the moddability?

I will buy the next title even without the improvements. I just want more planes and campaigns.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Well even if people donate, and the goal isnt reached, then maybe TK could drop the price for the game a little bit, since he had a little added funding for it ya know?

 

 

But it would be nice to be able to do more stuff, especially mid air refueling, because there have been many times I have ran dry and been at max fuel conserve to make it back to the boat.

 

I'm not sure about reducing the cost per se though, as it's really cheap, and the amount of work that has been put out by everybody could be very expensive addons if charged.

 

But I agree, I'll gladly pay to have air-to-air refuelling added. I've rarely had the need to, but in some cases it would be a nice thing

[Silverbolt 104]

Aerial refueling and reinforcements, it still frustrating fight against 12 Reds alone.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Aerial refueling and reinforcements, it still frustrating fight against 12 Reds alone.

 

True enough, what's the point of the "Help me I'm about to get smoked!" button when Red Crown comes back and says "Sorry boy, you're screwed!" At least an Alert flight would be nice, even if it was a Sopwith Camel with rusty, non-firing machine guns! At least it would be a distraction so you can boogie woogie out of there....

[+ST0RM 145]

I think we've seen from the number of donations versus the actual number of people here at CA who download, this proposal wouldnt net very much.

 

Is it the responsibility of the same die-hard 200-300 to foot the bill for the top 5 most wanted features?

 

Just my$.02

 

-S

[+Spectre_USA 7]

My personal Holy Grail would be a save button.

 

Has been for a long time. Some of the campaign, and even the single missions, I would love to re-fly, as they are that good.

 

I was tooting the combat-quick-turn for quite a while, but as stated there, is is all but useless if the combatants retreat the area after the clash,

I have done the re-arm thing on the ground, and tried the refuel hack, but it just isn't worth it to go back and whack that SAM site if everyone has already

headed back to the barn for Miller time.

 

So now I am banging the save button drum. Rally round, boys!

[Icarus999 70]

I think we've seen from the number of donations versus the actual number of people here at CA who download, this proposal wouldnt net very much.

 

Is it the responsibility of the same die-hard 200-300 to foot the bill for the top 5 most wanted features?

 

Just my$.02

 

-S

 

These modifications could and should be third wire payware expansion packs ... I tried to bring that up over there but I don't think TK quite understood what I was trying to say.

 

p.s. As I said before there are a lot of honor less scumbags out there who will not pay their way unless they are forced to. Perhaps it is time require noobs to subscribe if they want to download..

[+Gunrunner 314]

I think the thorny issue with refueling is that TK would want to do it right, meaning that it will not only be there for the player, but the AI and that the AI would be able to use it by itself.

In most other sims this is either absent, or partly scripted (meaning that once reaching a certain position, the AI will follow a script rather than really react to outside events).

 

 

Also, originally, the SF series was more about tactical operations, skirmishes, and there was no real need for refueling as the size of the theater made it unnecessary (except that since WoV it had an historical justification), meaning that the whole campaign engine would have to be changed, since the change in scope would mean really dealing with long flights with refueling, multiple operations, etc...

[+EricJ 4,245]

True but a good case in point is LOMAC. More often than not, depending on the mission, I wouldn't need air refuelling either. However it was still there, as a fully fuelled Su-33 at low level could fly from Anapa to Sochi in about... 30 minutes, but I would have to land because I was at bingo fuel. Same concept, the scope of the maps is depending on the person making it, and the scope of the mission. Sure you can't get huge maps, but then again, that's up to the mapmaker to require air to air refuelling. Granted though, I can fly in the Black Sea map from the SW of Turkey to the middle of the country and be really bingo fuel at low level. Granted I can still make it on deck, but I'd be really bingo! So it's all depending on a lot of factors, but It's pretty difficult in WOV to go from like... Saigon to Hanoi and not needing refuelling. If you do Hi-Hi-Hi profile yeah, but sometimes you need to get in the trees. But it's just another option to make sometimes a boring mission eventful.