Which DM do you use

[+Winder 32]

Please Vote.

 

Ta

 

WM

[Winston DoRight 3]

I'm only using hardcore because that's the specification for multiplay. I had been using Herr Prop-Wasche's intermediate DM 1.6 and find it to be nearly perfect. No more enemy planes going down with 1 or 2 hits as in normal DM, and no more pouring hundreds of rounds into them with the hardcore DM. I wish more people would try the intermediate DM. I'm sure you'd like it and it's a simple install. Plus you can go back to the normal or hardcore simply by running them again.

 

I'm wondering how the intermediate DM would be in multiplay?

 

I've always wondered why this isn't added to the official updates. It would be great to have a middle DM approved by the dev team. It's like having hot or cold water... but no warm!

 

Herr Prop-Wasche's thread and download of the intermediate FM 1.6 is here: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...hl=intermediate

Edited June 17, 2009 by Winston DoRight

[+Winder 32]

I'm only using hardcore because that's the specification for multiplay. I had been using Herr Prop-Wasche's intermediate DM 1.6 and find it to be nearly perfect. No more enemy planes going down with 1 or 2 hits as in normal DM, and no more pouring hundreds of rounds into them with the hardcore DM. I wish more people would try the intermediate DM. I'm sure you'd like it and it's a simple install. Plus you can go back to the normal or hardcore simply by running them again.

 

I'm wondering how the intermediate DM would be in multiplay?

 

I've always wondered why this isn't added to the official updates. It would be great to have a middle DM approved by the dev team. It's like having hot or cold water... but no warm!

 

Herr Prop-Wasche's thread and download of the intermediate FM 1.6 is here: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...hl=intermediate

 

 

Well I guess the main reason for this Poll is that I want to rationalise down to one DM if possible and stop the alternatives as its a lot of work to maintain 390 DMs....... x 2... for each patch we do....

 

And we are not averse to an intermediate DM as long as balance is maintained... so now is your chance to let us know!!

 

WM

[chrispdm1 1]

I'm going to echo Winston and say that Hardcore is too hardcore and normal is nice until someone gets on your tail for 1.5 seconds and hits all main functions leaving you helpless... I haven't tried intermediate but it sounds like it should work pretty well, I'll have to download it.

[SirMike1983 3]

Hardcore-- I think hardcore is just about perfect in terms of bringing planes down. On normal they're too easy to shoot down.

Edited June 17, 2009 by SirMike1983

[Bigfish2 0]

Hardcore, please. Don't we want it to be as "realistic" as possible? It was, realistically, jolly hard to shoot things down, as far as I can tell. Made me try harder.

[redwolf 19]

Neither...currently using a 3rd party "intermediate" DM by Fortiesboy - it's a nice happy medium (no pun intended) between the two official ones.

[+Winder 32]

Neither...currently using a 3rd party "intermediate" DM by Fortiesboy - it's a nice happy medium (no pun intended) between the two official ones.

 

 

Hear ya - added an option...

 

ta

 

WM

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Have been using Normal..If I switch, it will be to Fortiesboys DM too.

Didnt like Hardcore...sorry

[+Winder 32]

Have been using Normal..If I switch, it will be to Fortiesboys DM too.

Didnt like Hardcore...sorry

 

No apologies necessary UK - this is a poll to gather info and consensus for the future!!

 

Cheers

 

WM

[Dej 17]

Hardcore.

 

If I 'spray and pray' I might be lucky. If I fly well, stay on his tail and put well-placed rounds into the engine or into the pilot, he goes down, for sure. As far as I've read, that's what it was like and if it wasn't, well then it's making a better fighter pilot out of me so I'm still happy.

[Duce Lewis 3]

I've never tried any option other than the standard Normal

Think I'll try out Hardcore and Forty's Intermediate now though

[Gous 0]

Intermediate all the way. The perfect middle solution.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Gosh, I'm sorta partial to my Intermediate damage model, myself.

[Burning Beard 14]

I use Hardcore for the same reason as Winston..... I have tried the Intermediate and thought it was fine. I have not use normal in the current form.

 

Beard

[SirMike1983 3]

Hardcore.

 

If I 'spray and pray' I might be lucky. If I fly well, stay on his tail and put well-placed rounds into the engine or into the pilot, he goes down, for sure. As far as I've read, that's what it was like and if it wasn't, well then it's making a better fighter pilot out of me so I'm still happy.

 

Exactly: I was getting a number of "accidental" kills on normal-- I'd fire off a burst at the edge of range and happen to get lucky. But that burst would often be enough to bring a plane down. With hardcore, I have to work in close and fire a series of careful bursts to get a kill. The guys back in the day had to work, so should I.

[Hellshade 110]

Intermediate 1.6. I've been using Hardcore, but I tried the 3rd party one tonight and I have to say I like the damage effects as well as the compromise between how long it takes me to shoot down a plane and how many hits I can take before I'm dropping out of the sky myself. Normal mode you basically have to fly 100% defensively. If anyone even gets 2 bullets in you, your flight controls are shot and it's exceptionally difficult to survive once you've taken any damage at all. The 1.6 Intermediate version feels right to me.

 

The question also has to be, how many folks who have voted for Normal or Hardcore have actually tried the Intermediate DM?

 

Hellshade

[Madmatt 0]

I use the Hardcore but like others above, only because right now it is the de-facto MP standard. Perhaps in the future I will run some MP sessions and make everyone use the Intermediate DM. I have even given some thought to adding in a type of DM Selector to my MP Autoinstaller. Might be best to make that a separate utility though.

 

My *real* job and some other RL issues have really minimized my game time as of late but hopefully things will clear up soon as I have lots of cool stuff I want to share with the OFF Community at large.

 

Madmatt

[Siggi 10]

Hardcore for me. I can take a few hits without losing the entire plot and I have to work for kills. From all I've read the hardcore feels very realistic in terms of putting planes down, if not in terms of them coming apart as they go (could still do with more of that).

[Fortiesboy 3]

Well, I've voted for Prop Wasches DM. I see one or two chaps have referred to it as mine, so perhaps I should make the situation a little clearer ( I hope )

 

Prop wasche altered the Damage boxes in the xdp files which made the planes succumb to hits and go in at a point easier than hardcore and later than Normal. And then submitted it as a third choice DM to change around in the same way as you could the Normal and hardcore DMs

 

Using that as a base, we both then adjusted the threshold values to give varying degrees of damage effects, ie wings coming off, fire, explosions etc.

 

We don't agree ( amicably, I would add ) on the level of damage to be seen. If you look at my thread where test samples were put up, you will see my thinking on this. - which basically is that if a plane goes down damaged, it should ( mostly ) look damaged.

 

So we each submitted for testing some modded xdp files for you chaps to try. ( And we actually haven't had any feedback on those! )

 

I am still testing and altering, but I'm of the mind that whichever DM you use - Normal, Hardcore or Prop wasches Intermediate, you can still use in those installs, different xdp files where only the Threshold values have been modded. And that one Hardcore DM with xxxx TVs could still play online against another Hardcore DM with vvvv TVs ?? This is still to be tested.

[Macklroy 2]

I use hardcore dm. But only because otherwise i feel it's 'too easy' to bring down an opponent. and also i feel it's too easy for my craft to be brought down otherwise. Other dm's are fair it seems, but for me, hardcore is the most "realistic" mode.

 

S!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

My main reason (originally) for using intermediate was for MP...But it appears that it has no effect which you use?...Someone please advise if this is the case?..... I will happily try Props/Fortiesboy DM if it doesn't screw up MP

[Gous 0]

My guess is, that when you want to play MP, you will just install the hardcore DM. And when SP, install the intermediate. If you want to switch back to MP, then install hardcore etc. etc...

It won't mess up anything.

[Peeppu 207]

I've never tried any option other than the hardcore and it is greatly!

[Fortiesboy 3]

If I could add to earlier, it may add to the clarity ( or confusion -LOL ) of what damage is in OFF.

If it is wrong I hope Winder etall will correct it, or others may have different views on it, but this thread seems as good a place to put it.

 

This is my understanding of how the damage works in OFF.

First, what is damage- in computer terms in OFF? I think it is in essentially two parts.

When your bullets hit the enemy plane, it hits certain parts called Damage Boxes. The values which those damage boxes have, determines the "probability" of the hit registering, and the amount of points needed to make the damage. Those values are entered by the programmer

into a section of the xdp files of each plane.

Now the "damage" here is defined by the computer as that which makes the part stop working.

So, the plane may start to fly as if a wing isn't working, or an aileron or engine or pilot or whatever.

Thus we see the plane wallowing or spiralling or sinking etc. - this is what the computer makes the plane do, until it hits the ground of course.

 

BUT, so far, the computer has not made the image, ( which you see on your monitor,) show the plane as having any damage effects, ie broken wings, fire, smoke trails explosions etc.

because this is made to happen by the Threshold values section of the xdp file. These are figures entered in that part, by the programmer, to make those effects occur.

Theoretically, those figures are percentages of the Damage Box figures?

So that when there is 100 per cent of the figures reached ( in the damage boxes ) to down the plane, there should be an appearance of all the effects in the TVs section,

because 100 is the figure at the end of each plane part, that the devs have programmed to be reached .

I know that is logical, and I thought it was like that, but my observations lead me to believe that it isn't as simple as that,

otherwise there would be many times, if not every time, a plane was damaged enough to fall from the sky, when we would see these effects come in,

 

But we don't - many( most ) of the time the planes go down with no major effects showing. From what I have read on the forum, this is what most players are seeing most of the time.

 

Putting the logic to one side for a while, I played around with the TVs of some planes, and I found that

by lowering the values, that these damage effects could and would be seen.

And I found that I could make these figures as low as 50-30 ( instead of 100 ) in a lot of cases.

The frustrating bit ( and the good bit, too ) was that these effects didn't always occur when you thought they would. There is a lovely element of randomness.

Which means that quite low values still did not mean it was necessarily arcade.

Some may think it is - but maybe the AI was Rookie and all visual aids were on, and Workshop settings had "strongest" bullets and Normal DM- but the arcadeness is down to those things I've just mentioned - not necessarily the Threshold values.

I'm pretty sure it can be made NOT easy, yet still have damage seen.

 

The xdp files i submitted for evaluation were using Prop Wasche's Intermediate DM file, but there is no reason why the Threshold values "section" can't be pasted into the xdp file of a Hardcore DM. or a Normal DM. I reckon it would work.

( If you are thinking on doing this, please refer to my thread where it tells you "how to" )

 

Then see if it's arcade, using the Hardcore file, on Normal bullets against Ace AI with NO visual aids apart from trackir.

You would do well to survive against two AI like that- and that scenario, I suggest, is more like it was in RL and would be like conditions were in " campaign " in OFF.

 

cheers