Bad Mood

[Spiff 2]

Greetings ThirdWire Community,

 

I'm in a bad mood so I'm going to rant. When I purchase ThirdWire games I expect them to work out of the box err download (and they do and I like them alot). But when you have a merged install (a selling point on the gen2 titles) and target aircraft don't have skins (a real immersion killer) that burns me. I'm not a programmer and the bleeding hearts will say it's alot of code and things are gonna slip through the cracks (OK, I'll buy that, instruments not working, gear doors in the wrong position, decals not showing, etc.) but not skins on aircraft. . . TO ME IT SCREAMS POOR QUALITY CONTROL AND I DON'T GIVE A ****! When another CUSTOMER brought this up I wish TK would have hit this one a little harder than he did (saying it would be addressed with a new installer). What I took away from the conversation was the customer bought another game to fix the issue immediately without trying to mod which is certainly the customer's option. I'm not posting this at Thirdwire because I think they are above board when it comes to customer service and supporting the flight sim/modding community; these days customer service is non-existent. I'm done.

[+Erik 1,805]

Some might say that what can be perceived as an oversight is also the genius to the ThirdWire series. The extreme mod'ability is what makes it highly desirable to the degree that this entire community rallies behind it.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Greetings ThirdWire Community,

 

I'm in a bad mood so I'm going to rant. When I purchase ThirdWire games I expect them to work out of the box err download (and they do and I like them alot). But when you have a merged install (a selling point on the gen2 titles) and target aircraft don't have skins (a real immersion killer) that burns me. I'm not a programmer and the bleeding hearts will say it's alot of code and things are gonna slip through the cracks (OK, I'll buy that, instruments not working, gear doors in the wrong position, decals not showing, etc.) but not skins on aircraft. . . TO ME IT SCREAMS POOR QUALITY CONTROL AND I DON'T GIVE A ****! When another CUSTOMER brought this up I wish TK would have hit this one a little harder than he did (saying it would be addressed with a new installer). What I took away from the conversation was the customer bought another game to fix the issue immediately without trying to mod which is certainly the customer's option. I'm not posting this at Thirdwire because I think they are above board when it comes to customer service and supporting the flight sim/modding community; these days customer service is non-existent. I'm done.

 

Sorry to burst ur bubble, but I guess if u dont like it, I can understand u getting mad, since something doesnt work right, but now how many game makers patch there games for FREE to fix the mistakes they make?????? Maybe before u just go apes**t over here u should post the problems ur having at the OFFICIAL thirdwire site, not just post ur aggrivations here. From what I can see, u didnt even post at TW because u believe they are "above board when it comes to customer service" one second and then u say that customer service is "non-existant". Which is it? You cant have ur cake and eat it too when u post here saying ur done with the sim and not over there telling TK or some other of their staff what ur problems are.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Jarhead1

[Guest rscsjsuso5]

i just want to give my two cents and say i agree with all of you but u must understand is that no game is perfect and perfection comes from the user itself. u get the game for the platform of building a game . example u install winxp u might have all the drivers and some you might not . no game/program is perfect out their another example i installed an aircraft go to loadout screen all empty i'm mad really mad but take a deep breath and say to ur self , no mod is perfect and maybe some simple edit will do the fix. hey spiff i agree with u but as of today u have 50 something post, u can increase that and make your simming experience even better, we all got to have fun one way or the other and it doesn't have to be a pain in the rear or something. another example is i played red jets and they put an f16 pit in a su27 man that pissed me off, later i learned the reason is that red jets is an arcade flight sim. also i played nova's mig29 and man the graphics was horrible but later they teached u about avionics and locking on your target. tk's main goal is to created a simple flight sim and that it can be modded and that nothing is perfect.

 

smiles upon u may their be calmness and complete enjoyment in your sim experience.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Let see if I've got this right....

 

TK admitted that there was an issue only when merging title 2 and title 3, stated that he'd fix it in the next patch (with the emphasis on HE, there is no team at ThirWire), and you're singling him out for poor QC? How long have you been simming/gaming?

 

Falcon 4.0 (large team effort); released in 1998, all but unplayable until the community stepped in.

MiG Alley (team effort); released 1999, buggy, took two patches to fix it, still buggy in multiplayer

LOMAC, (large team effort), memory leaks, etc. Wasn't really fixed until they released Flaming Cliffs.

 

Now, I'm not putting down the aforementioned sims, nor their developers. I've just used them as examples, to illustrate my point... And that is, that even a team of devs working with a generous budget, still won't guarantee that a sim (or an app, or even an operating system) will be totally free of bugs. Come to think of it, one has to look no further than Micro$oft

Edited September 25, 2009 by Fubar512

[Spinners 15,985]

Hi Spiff. Sorry things aren't working for you because the merged install thing is a fantastic feature and works for me like a charm.

 

I've found TK's customer service to be exemplary, even to the extent of answering an e-mail where I asked him for a mesh name (to help me place a decal before I knew how to use XV132 to read LOD files).

 

Stick with it mate. There's a feeling that SF2:I is just around the corner and I've a feeling that TK will nail this little wrinkle... and probably add something tasty to the series as well!

[+Jimbib 741]

Fubar, I think the wambulance may need calling again...

[Fubar512 1,350]

Fubar, I think the wambulance may need calling again...

 

 

Whaaaaambulance summoned, and on its way....

 

Edited September 25, 2009 by Fubar512

[+Old Diego 66]

I'll peel the onion back and attempt to dissect what the complaint is all about. Ignoring the obvious frustration, all I read is that Spiff is upset at what should have been an obvious bug during beta testing. Its amazing that there are so few major bugs with Thirdwire releases. Its the minor ones and the quantity that cause frustration. This is one of them. Speaking with many modders off line, I hear lots of complaints about quality and bugs right after game/patch release. Some of them are more colorful in the language use and excitement than Spiff.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Well, the issue is that in testing (and yes, have been on Beta teams before, and have even beta-tested WoE for TW), the software devs understandbly ask that you initially install their product "clean", with no merging or mods....that's how this slipped through. AS TW uses the same beta team for all their releases, when the time comes to test the "merged" feature of the current beta, one can easily see that the team members probably have the entire title-set (SF2, SF2V, SF2E) installed from previous tests. So, it's rather obvious how something like this can slip by.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Fubar512

[+Old Diego 66]

I use to work for Activision for years and tested too many titles to recall them all. The first thing we did when testing a new version was wipe the previous version of the game off the drive. If there were other titles that interacted with the new version, they too were removed. This did not happen with the released version but, it should have happened.

 

What I'm trying to say in this thread is to cut people some slack when they are upset with having found a bug that should have been caught. Even though there is a work around for this particular problem and it appears that Thirdwire is working on it, not many are happy with the thought of reinstalling the game/games to whatever level of customization they want.

 

Beta testing is a tough business. I know, I was there. Many times the developers made changes after we were done testing and released the title. Many times the bugs and our pleas to fix them went seemingly ignored. Many times the bugs would be fixed at a later date. Thirdwire has a good track record for squashing bugs.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Yeah but Diego, Spiff said he didnt even report it on the TW site. Why are you gonna go to another site and just explode and bitch about a product, without even going to the products home site and informing the maker first????? Thats the point I am trying to make. Plus one minute he is giving TW mad props for customer service, then the next second he is saying they suck. WTF??????

[+Old Diego 66]

Spiff mentioned that it was brought up before and that the problem was being worked on. Not being Spiff, I can only assume he is upset over the bug being there in the first place. As to his opinion of customer service - have you ever been frustrated to the point you make no sense on the internet? I have.

 

I would take away from this thread that this was a simple venting thread. Instead of talking him down from the ledge, we just told him to jump. I see these threads from time to time and usually ignore them for what they are...maybe I should have followed my first instinct and not replied but I'm bored and I really should be getting ready for work.

[Spinners 15,985]

So, it's rather obvious how something like this can slip by.

 

But not quite obvious enough for it not to have happened!

[+Jarhead1 27]

I dont know, I just get irratated when someone goes and complains about the sims, especially with all the support that TK does give towards the sims, like the updates and patches to bring the old games to the present standards, thats all.

[MigBuster 2,884]

. . TO ME IT SCREAMS POOR QUALITY CONTROL AND I DON'T GIVE A ****! When another CUSTOMER brought this up I wish TK would have hit this one a little harder than he did (saying it would be addressed with a new installer). What I took away from the conversation was the customer bought another game to fix the issue immediately without trying to mod which is certainly the customer's option.

 

TK will no doubt sort the issue out as soon as he can - may even be in the next patch.

 

Not sure you could get better service than that tbh.

 

My advice would be - don't merge your games until the patch is out.

 

 

 

And as for Quality Control you really haven't got the first clue about software development or anything have you! - considering the size of the operation he does miracles.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Take a look at this Spiff and then u might understand why some stuff might slip by.-----> http://forum.combata...=\flying+under\

Edited September 25, 2009 by Jarhead1

[+Dave 2,322]

Let me throw a kink into all this. Why is it that I am flying with it all 3 sims merged and I have yet to see this bug at all? Everyone one of my Mig's have skins on them. Hell when I get off duty I can get you screen shots too if you want. I find it odd that its happening to some but not all.

 

I installed in this order, SF2, SF2:V and SF2:E. Am I missing something?

 

 

Finally having been on the beta team for this series (Gen 1) its very very easy to miss something. For example when trying to squash a major bug, you can get focused on that and miss a minor one. Knowing all the members of the beta teams, some of who are modders here at CA, they do not lack a good quailty control. It's called s**t happens. TK will fix it. I am sure a few of the testers would not even take offense to what you said though.

[Gr.Viper 131]

Dave, the glitch is that, since SF2E installer got very complicated, if you're installing SF2E over SF2V without the SF2, some of the skins for AI planes get lost. TK said he'll fix it.

[+Dave 2,322]

Dave, the glitch is that, since SF2E installer got very complicated, if you're installing SF2E over SF2V without the SF2, some of the skins for AI planes get lost. TK said he'll fix it.

 

Ah ok, so a lesson to be learned, install SF2V then SF2E and see what happens.

[Spiff 2]

Hello All,

 

The responses were pretty much what I expected. I was having a bad day. Jarhead needs to read a little closer but Old Diego got it. That being said everyone has a line as a paying customer-mine is having the stars of the show naked (that might be good elsewhere but not for me here). I also don't know TK's working environment, staff, bills, etc. but I'll gladly pay $20 for his simming experience. I can't remember the last time I paid that for a flight sim if ever, starting with Yeager's air combat? Some might consider it a minor glitch in the grand scheme of things, I don't. As for customer service I think TK is great and I thought I got that across but the ball got dropped for me on this, because nowadays IMHO there is very little customer service. The bar just seems to get higher and higher with this modding community.

[eraser_tr 29]

I haven't seen the problem with all 3 merged. Admittedly, I haven't played it much, I'm still porting over all my stuff. Another person on the TW forums apparently fixed the problem by lowering his graphics settings (video memory?)

 

The good thing with SF games, so long as its not a problem in the game's code, it can be easily fixed by a little bit of work.

[+Dave 2,322]

Its all good Spiff. Sorry for the dog pile. Everyone stand down.

[Spiff 2]

Hello All,

 

I wanted to comment on something that kinda goes along with this topic. If you're flying these sims and don't stop once in awhile (maybe during a break in the action) to check out some external views. . . you're missing out. I'm sure some people don't appreciate the little things but the modellers sure do. Show of hands now, how many people out there have taken a second to watch the speedbrake deploy on an A-7 in the 2nd gen sims SF2V or E? I'm sure there's a little time and effort expended i.e. work(how much?, I'm not a modeller). So to whoever did that, I saw it and appreciated it.

 

P.S. They still should've caught missing aircraft skins on a merged install.

 

Spiff

[+Dave 2,322]

 

 

P.S. They still should've caught missing aircraft skins on a merged install.

 

Spiff

 

Guess you had to be there then. It can happen to the best beta testers. So we will agree to disagree.