What's your fav method of air-to-air combat?

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Cool I tried the other tactic closing in like a porpoise. hosed the sucker down but got hosed myself At least I didnt die

Getting hit by the tail gunner will happen occasionally. Personally, i try to aim for an engine or wing root to maximize damage.

[xclusiv8 35]

I tried the old fashioned way of shooting unguided rockets at the bombers. It was more effective than i thought.

[MaverickMike 10]

IRM for me. I love beeing close enough to the enemy to be able to see them go down, but not catch any 37mm in the face. I do like a spin in the hunters however and the only kill with these aircraft is a gun kill. As for beagles I find if you fly on their 6, around 1nm away and around 500 feet below them, 3 out of 4 AIM-9B will usually hit the target (The missile will lock on to the engine heat easier against the backdrop of the sky). It usually takes 2 to bring one down however....

 

Mike

[macelena 1,070]

If you want to get something done well, go nuclear....

 

Edited November 15, 2009 by macelena

[Rambler 1-1 9]

Guns and early IRMs. there's nothing more awesome then diving in on a MiG, go into scissors, then vertical scissors, then hamerhead, then it's AIM-9Bs and Ds and guns. I'll also use sparrows, but that's about it.

 

I always fly in the 60s and 70s with NATO and US aircraft, so I just use the tactics I've read about and it's awesome. Those BVR fights are boring and tense, but when you get right into a hairball with burners and guns blazing, there's nothing better. The satisfaction of a guns or missile kill is so much greater too, because it's so rare with these big jets.

 

In fact, this is what got me hooked on the TW sims in the first place. The awesome 60's-style gunfights.

[jet_spud 0]

If you want to get something done well, go nuclear....

 

 

 

LOL nuke air-to-air now we're really talking, fry em all!

[jet_spud 0]

thanks guys - there's some real good tips in there,

 

i guess if this had been a poll, guns would probably have won.

 

still, i kinda enjoy watching that big firework snaking after that MiG, makes a change from my il-2 approach of knocking the undercart off Ju-87's and 52's and watching those lame ducks fly on as happy as larry!

 

what i really like about this series is just how fast everything happens - everythings growlin' and bleepin' and i got that plonker screaming guns, guns, guns at me like some demented record thats got stuck whilst i'm going thru loadsa combinations except the right one! usually my tanks go instead of my missiles -still might hit an arab down below i guess!!

 

so i find myself still punching the pause button on a regular basis so am possibly not quite ready for online yet!!!

[JediMaster 451]

Well in Il-2 my favorite kill was to saw the bandit's tail off with my prop, but that's not feasible here.

 

I'll agree that IRM's are my favorite, especially the earlier ones as getting a kill with them was far more difficult than with an R-73 or AIM-9X today. Also since my plane seems to be the size of 5 B-52s stuck together I dislike getting close to planes with tailguns! So many Tu-16s, Tu-22s, and Il-28s have notches on their planes from killing me that I've probably made several bomber gunners aces over the years...

 

Another thing is those bombers generally won't go down from a single IRM hit anyway, and I've even had fighters survive sometimes.

The best is when you hit one and it seems to survive, it flies for another few minutes, and as you close in to get a guns kill (I'll never waste a missile on a damaged fighter!) they eject/die in the cockpit and the plane goes down without any more effort on your part!

[the test pilot 5]

i leave the gun as the last option.

 

i usually start with a BVR attack to cut away some bandits, then i go to heaters.

 

sometimes i use guns to save a few missile shots for threats on homecoming.

[jet_spud 0]

Well in Il-2 my favorite kill was to saw the bandit's tail off with my prop, but that's not feasible here.

 

I'll agree that IRM's are my favorite, especially the earlier ones as getting a kill with them was far more difficult than with an R-73 or AIM-9X today. Also since my plane seems to be the size of 5 B-52s stuck together I dislike getting close to planes with tailguns! So many Tu-16s, Tu-22s, and Il-28s have notches on their planes from killing me that I've probably made several bomber gunners aces over the years...

 

Another thing is those bombers generally won't go down from a single IRM hit anyway, and I've even had fighters survive sometimes.

The best is when you hit one and it seems to survive, it flies for another few minutes, and as you close in to get a guns kill (I'll never waste a missile on a damaged fighter!) they eject/die in the cockpit and the plane goes down without any more effort on your part!

 

 

I did that with an IAF A4 when I was flying a MiG-21 recently - unfortunately I'd used all my 23mm (not much) on another Skyhawk and killed it, and all I had left was the two air-to-airs, first one missed by a mile (think I hit the sun though , second one seemed to detonate a little behind the target for some reason? Becuase I'd used all my gun ammo, he got away - so there's a lesson there; keep a few rounds just in case.

 

Must try that tailchopping tactic in il-2 - sounds fun - did you have to bail out after?

Edited November 18, 2009 by jet_spud

[JediMaster 451]

I have about a 50% survival rate doing that. Half the time I fly away to fight another day, the other half I either bent/broke the prop or wound up colliding.

[+hi ho silver 179]

I like to get down low and use the terrain darting in between hills ,mountains going around and sneek up behind them irm then guns its dangerous but fun :)

[jomni 6]

Of course gun kills are more satisfying.

I'm really happy when I nail a US jet using the Mig-17.

[Sakai 2]

I've got to say, I love this topic. Me personally, early IRM kills are my favorite. It's not always easy to get into a good firing position for those bad boys. The F4J vs. Mig-17 fight can be incredible. I have had many that stretch into minutes of twisting and turning with a final IRM shot or gun burst decides the victor. Although, in the 60s, getting a kill with the sparrow can be satisfying because of the very low pk of the earlier models.

 

When it comes to modern jets, I think the challenge is much, much greater. The higher effectiveness of the weapons demands much more multi-tasking with both launching and evading. To me this is much more difficult with modern aircraft, and leads to more confusion in my brain. Although, on those few occasions when I actually get into knife fights with fighters like the Su-27, a kill is oh so satisfying. I dont care what I use at that point, as long as the job gets done.

 

Also, I find that I love to fly red in the early to late 60s, specifically the Mig-17/21, and getting kills over US aircraft with them is an achievement.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I've got to say, I love this topic. Me personally, early IRM kills are my favorite. It's not always easy to get into a good firing position for those bad boys. The F4J vs. Mig-17 fight can be incredible. I have had many that stretch into minutes of twisting and turning with a final IRM shot or gun burst decides the victor. Although, in the 60s, getting a kill with the sparrow can be satisfying because of the very low pk of the earlier models.

 

When it comes to modern jets, I think the challenge is much, much greater. The higher effectiveness of the weapons demands much more multi-tasking with both launching and evading. To me this is much more difficult with modern aircraft, and leads to more confusion in my brain. Although, on those few occasions when I actually get into knife fights with fighters like the Su-27, a kill is oh so satisfying. I dont care what I use at that point, as long as the job gets done.

 

Also, I find that I love to fly red in the early to late 60s, specifically the Mig-17/21, and getting kills over US aircraft with them is an achievement.

 

I think i had maybe 2-3 dogfights in a MIG21. Every time it was coming in from 6 o'clock at high speed and letting fly with Atolls at near point blank range and then guns on the next pass if possible.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Doesn't matter. Best is the no dogfight kill; either bounce with guns or from long range with missiles. Anytime you get into a pop culture "zero" or "triplane" Samarai style dogfight, you already lost the basic mission. That's why I always say fly a tough Russian Style airplane.

 

 

hgbn::

Missiles isn't always easier.

[jet_spud 0]

Some good info been raised on this one guys.

 

I guess what aircraft you're flying vis enemy is also an important factor - there's nothing better than taking out a superior bird who should've trashed you easily right?

 

Easiuer said than done mind...........

 

me and multi-tasking = pause key

Edited November 21, 2009 by jet_spud

[Sakai 2]

lol, yes, the pause key can do wonders for S/A. In the modern arena, the weapons on both side are very lethal. I have nightmares about R-77s, and the AMRAAM has the same effect, some of the guys survive the first volley, just not me. If the fighters weren't so cool I probably wouldn't even fly in that era, but I love the Su-27 and it's variants. The fights I enjoy the most are from the 1955 to 1979 time period. The BVR missiles aren't Zues lightning bolts and the heaters aren't all that easy to use either until the later period. One really great matchup is the F-4 vs. Mig-23, well matched aircraft in my opinion. F-86 vs. Mig-17 I enjoy as well. The F-15 is the USAF fighter I get the most satisfaction out of killing with red fighters. Not so much in a Mig-29 or Su-27, but in the Mig-21/23. I posted a screen once that I lost when my puter killed itself of my gun pipper on the tail of an Eagle in the cockpit of a Mig-21bis, that was a kill I still remember.

[+Nightshade/PR 7,943]

My 2 cents...

Dogfighting is when you turn and shoot some overconfident sucker in the face on an attack mission. It's usually (for me) a short, close range gun or IRM missile engagement at low level with no margin of error. The strike completion is what I came for. However, I try and never lose sight of the bad guys in the area, and always have my guns hot in case a quick shot presents itself.

BUT, I do like stalking enemies on CAP and Sweep missions. For that, I prefer the shot from dead astern after sneaking in close, or the L/R shot out of their engagement range. My favorite is floating up from underneath the blind spot dead astern, and using IR missiles for total surprise. Head on gun passes (as stated earlier)I have found are safest for bombers, and almost ALWAYS suicidal against F-15's. While a various mix of tried and true tactics work, the guy handling the stick's innovation can make the difference.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Nightshade/PR

[UnknownPilot 33]

Being an IL2-er myself, I gotta say that when talking about this thread's subject, _favorite_, ie, preferable or most enjoyable, the idea that dogfights should be looked upon with disdain really smacks of sour grapes to me.

 

Ignoring the notion of strike missions, when it comes to air to air combat, the idea is man and machine vs man and machine. Who gets the drop, who can turn the tables, who can get the most out of their plane, etc. And for that, it's all about the guns. From the Fokker E.III to the F-4J and everything in between. Seeing a target on your scope and loosing a missile then waiting for it to either disappear and not knowing if it's down, or for it to miss... enh. There's an appeal to it, but it gets stale pretty quickly.

 

Getting up close, down n dirty, and earning that kill is so much better. OR... even popping some bandit asleep at the stick, say maybe coming high and hot out of the sun and blasting him out of the sky before he ever knew you were there, that's awesome too. (Boelcke, Richtofen, and Hartmann were on to something afterall.... hehe) (some consider it "cold" and maybe not being earned, but the earning is in preparation and planning, like a sniper. And it's most satisfying with heavy weapons and either sawing a wing off or detonating the target - Butcher Bird, Jug, Pfeil, Schwalbe, and the Wing are my favorite for that purpose. [though it's also awesome to take out a TnB'er with The Wing, fighting their fight, too, they always cry lol ] - Unloading copious amounts of lead from those multiple heavy cannons or 8 M2s, seeing the flames and tracers, hearing those satisfying thuds or saw-like sounds, and watching the enemy pop like a balloon... it really brings out one's fangs )

 

 

I dunno, I like all kinds. Missile kills are greatest when you let go of immersion and go movie-style, hit F9 and track the missile in and see it nail the bandit at long-ish range. That is satisfying. As is using the systems on board for more than just eye-candy, finding the target, tracking his range, selecting the weapon, judging the merge rate, figuring out how to intercept him on the fly, etc.

 

 

For the era I've been messing with though, mid-60s, AIM-9s are just dead weight and Sparrows work best against target drones. So I always carry a gunpod, or fly a fighter with an integrated gun. Use the radar to find and track the bandit (and on the F-8 it seems keeping a lock helps with the gun sight too), then use old school energy tactics to fly circles around him, get off that snap shot, and watch him go down in flames, then get the hell out and start scanning for anyone that might have gotten too close in those vital target fixation moments.

 

 

I won't reserve any ammo though. lol I'll use missiles first then move to guns and try to come home with as many racked up as I can, however they were obtained.

[charlielima 328]

I do not like A2A.

I have to pickle my nape, snakeyes, zunis and CBUs.

That makes me sad.

We also have to try to get that Mig stencil from those 2 VF squadrons that won't even swap movies with us.

 

 

 

 

Shooting the guns at anything that moves turns my screws tho.

CL

[Darrin 3]

sparrows nothing better than staying on target staying in cockpit holding that little dot then !!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GOT HIM! SWEET WOV sparrows

Edited January 9, 2010 by Darrin

[Eagle99 0]

I like SHUTING DOWN Tu-16 whith AIM-7F:good:

[Guest Raden]

I prefer Gun kills. But if you're playing very modern stuff it helps to even out the odds a bit using BVR missiles first.

 

 

Missiles isnt allways easier.

 

If you're playing on hard with everything and are flying the F-4 in Vietnam. You sometimes wished you had a gun instead of useless missiles.

 

Few hours ago I was leading a single, Armed_Recon MSN over IsraelME. We were just four of us. I exhausted all of my AHM, the deadly, long-range R-23R in 1L/2R swept wing of our Su-24 (sluggish big bird!) skinned for Joardan. 

 

 

Six (Yes 6 on TER) of my small IRM-turned-to AHM, R-62M all MISSED miserably the Bandids! Only two AGM left must first launch them for nearby Israeli ground SAMs.

 

Then I watch as my Wingman and number 3 were hunted by a one (believe me!) an F-16 of Iran! Man! My Nation.ini sucks! Excuse me....

 

So, I would have to rely on my 200 cannon (23mm), and closing in. From around 1km I spent the entire cannon in a side-way shoot stance at around 900km/hur.... and boom!

 

The Iranian bandit exploded sky-hi!

 

 

 

 

 

[Outlaw7 0]

It always starts with the RWR going off I turn into the threat, going full burner trying to get a lock and firing BVR before the merge but it always comes to Sidewinders until they're spent and then its guns-guns-guns