Don't fence me in

[+Erik 1,812]

You know I keep hearing more and more about the "wall" between Mexico and the USA. In fact I just saw a John McCain ad about the "fence", as he calls it. I'm sure he's hoping that it's going to help him get re-elected. I have to think to myself are people really that stupid that they don't learn from past mistakes? It didn't work for Germany and it didn't work for China (the only man made structure that can be seen clearly from space) why do they think it's going to work now?

 

Real solutions for real problems are what we need. I guarantee a solution costs less and is more effective.

[+Stary 2,427]

Only thing is you can't see great wall of China from space

[+Erik 1,812]

I stand corrected.

 

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/space/workinginspace/great_wall.html

 

I never knew it was a myth. Regardless it's frikken huge. <laughs>

[Ruggbutt 45]

McCain is only recently against illegal immigration. Because he's up for re-election and because the polls and the voters just voted in the new illegal immigration law. McCain typically has voted for Democrat issues even though he's allegedly a Republican. I'm voting against him this election. He may have been a man of honor when he was held in the Hanoi Hilton, but all he is now is another typical Washington politician who's only interested in what is good for John McCain.

[Guest Raden]

You know I keep hearing more and more about the "wall" between Mexico and the USA. In fact I just saw a John McCain ad about the "fence", as he calls it. I'm sure he's hoping that it's going to help him get re-elected. I have to think to myself are people really that stupid that they don't learn from past mistakes? It didn't work for Germany and it didn't work for China (the only man made structure that can be seen clearly from space) why do they think it's going to work now?

 

Real solutions for real problems are what we need. I guarantee a solution costs less and is more effective.o u

 

 

Hi Erik and every one; no offense to u and others. The other (and just erected not long ago) fence in the other part of the globe, a real 'hot spot' in the MidEast (we WOI-ers flew frequently, alas haven't seen the new wall n fences in the West Bank -- wonder one would think of making a mod on it?) seemed to have escaped ur attention: kindly have a look. And it worked man! No more Jihadists could sneak in easily now!

 

 

The Google link:http://www.google.co.id/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=wall+seperating+israel+and+palestine&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

BTW, the other "walls,"virtual tho, have long also been erected in most countries -- industrial (but losing their manufacturing industries they had been proud of, the States I mean due chiefly "out-sourchings" to "low-paid" working masses in India, and China; does "wall-mart" ring a bell? ) and "developing" ones (like the country where I live now, the nation of felons) -- further dividing the very very very rich and the less fortunates. 

 

I've learned a lot having lived several years in the "black continent". A bit late for the US to go in there as the European nations, the South Korean, and the most aggressive Red China already "own" the "black continent" .........

 

C u all later.))

 

 

[column5 63]

Hi Erik and every one; no offense to u and others. The other (and just erected not long ago) fence in the other part of the globe, a real 'hot spot' in the MidEast (we WOI-ers flew frequently, alas haven't seen the new wall n fences in the West Bank -- wonder one would think of making a mod on it?) seemed to have escaped ur attention: kindly have a look. And it worked man! No more Jihadists could sneak in easily now!

 

[Edit: I don't think that] Erik was advocating for the border fence. Its a stupid idea and something that establishment types like McCain point to as evidence that the government is doing something about the massive problem we have with illegal immigration, when in fact members of both parties have been facilitating it. If we had an independent watchdog media, this would be the biggest political scandal in US history. But we don't.

 

Anyway, the man to try and help is J.D. Hayworth who is runing against McCain in the Republican primary. He is a strong conservative and former US Representitive from Arizona. I have donated to him and strongly reccomend that anyone interested in the future of the country help him defeat McCain.

 

http://www.jdforsenate.com/

[+whiteknight06604 934]

A fence by itself is stupid but as part of a solution it would help.A fence and patrols and electonic survelance would all help.Just boot boots on the ground and have patrols out destroying water stations would really put a dent in the problem.Also making it a crime to aid people crossing the border with a real penalty will help too.That way people who hand out maps to water stations can be arested.

[+Dave 2,322]

2 fences that are 12 ft apart with mines in between and or guard towers. I applaud Arizona's tough stance on this. This is a huge problem and needs to be stopped.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

All that manpower and money being used overseas could have been better used along the border.As it is, the Border Patrol needs to be overhauled, reinforced, and deployed more agressively.

[+Gepard 11,295]

Once upon the time i walked along the borderfence that devided the two Germanies, with my Kashi over the shoulder and a comrade and his dog on my side. And from eyewitness i can say that a fence is a good methode to stop illegals. But .... It is not real a human solution of a geeper problem.

[column5 63]

2 fences that are 12 ft apart with mines in between and or guard towers. I applaud Arizona's tough stance on this. This is a huge problem and needs to be stopped.

 

LOL, well I understand the sentiment but...

 

Like most Americans I love the Mexican people and their culture--the food, the drinks, music, etc. I want a large number of people from Mexico to be able to obtain work visas and US citizenship every year. I just don't want the border to be an open seive. Anyone who enters our country without permission is a criminal and should be treated as such.

[ezlead 42]

Some UAV's with FLIR,TRAM and LGB's or JDAM's would negate the need of a "fence".

Before some start screaming at me,I know it's not right or feasible.

IMHO However,Our country is being "invaded". Just because it's not an organized army doesn't make any difference. That should be enough justification to send troops to the borders.

Edited May 11, 2010 by ezlead

[Ruggbutt 45]

I'm voting for JD Hayworth. As for the border, a fence is something that is needed. To start. Phoenix is #1 in the world for kidnapping. Most of the kidnapping is directly related to illegal drugs, illegal immigration and illegal immigrants. That's a fact. Home invasion rose 68% in one year, a direct result of illegal immigration. Arizona is in double digit inflation, and illegals are taking jobs that Americans will do. There was a study a couple years ago posted in the L.A. Times (which is a liberal rag) that says it all about illegal immigration regarding jobs: 9% of the illegals are actually doing jobs we won't do, such as picking crops. The other 91% are doing jobs we will. Those of you who are near the age of 40: 20 years ago who was working in the fast food restaurants? Or doing dishes or cooking in restaurants? I remember it being high school kids. The teen unemployment rate is much worse here in AZ. And lets not forget that 20 years ago diseases like TB were eradicated in this country. Not so any longer. And in some instances people who haven't been medical screened and have gotten their food handlers card have all kinds of diseases.

 

I love AZ and I love how the history of our state is rife with mexican and indian culture. It's everywhere in the names of the cities and the names of streets. I respect the chicano people (Americans of Mexican descent) who came here for a better life, learned the language and worked hard to pass the citizenship test. They want to be American. They're proud to be American. And they haven't lost any pride in their heritage. The majority of them that I know don't like the illegals for their disrespect of this country by refusing to obey the laws. Then there's the entitlement attitude of the illegals. They think they're owed something. Google the illegal immigration protest in Phoenix. Watch the vids. Police were assaulted in a "demonstration" with bottles and rocks. By people who are here illegally. Working here illegally. Not paying taxes. And even with the cops present they break the law. We've seen how they act with no police presence (kidnapping, murder, etc).

 

Time to lock down the border and stop the Mexican Army from firing upon our border agents. Our governor is going to send the Guard down south. I hope their hands aren't tied and are allowed to return fire. Our nation isn't sovereign any longer.

[+Dave 2,322]

LOL, well I understand the sentiment but...

 

Like most Americans I love the Mexican people and their culture--the food, the drinks, music, etc. I want a large number of people from Mexico to be able to obtain work visas and US citizenship every year. I just don't want the border to be an open seive. Anyone who enters our country without permission is a criminal and should be treated as such.

 

 

That is how I feel about it. I have no problem with them being Mexicans. There is a right way and a wrong way to immigrate to this country and coming in illegally is wrong. It needs to be controlled.

[+whiteknight06604 934]

I see nothing wrong with keeping anyone from comming into the country illegaly.there is nothing imoral or evil about making people wait in line.it's a priviledge not a right to be allowed into this country.I do not care what part of the world you are from just fill out the papers and wait in line.We are not the worlds welfare program.I have friends from all over the world and I think that the cultures that the live in are great but there is nothing racist or evil about protecting our borders.there is no moral equivilent between us stopping someone from comming into this nation illegaly and The Soviet Union killing people fleeing an evil goverment.there is a saying that while not PC these days sums things up pretty good. Ask an American Indian what happens when you don't control imigration.allow all law abiding people from anywhere in the world into the USA at a rate that allows them to be assimilated into the population,learning the langauge and the history of our nation is a must.I think a good way to get the other nations on board would be to start deducting the prossesing and repatriation costs from what ever aid we give them or if they are the rare country that dosn't get aid the we should impose import taxes on any goods they send us in a direct proportion to the amout of illegal imigrents they fail to stop.

Edited May 11, 2010 by whiteknight06604

[JediMaster 451]

What's the point when they just build tunnels?

[Ruggbutt 45]

What's the point when they just build tunnels?

You're right, let's give up.

[+Erik 1,812]

Yeah I'm definitely not speaking in favor of the wall idea. The real problem is that the fence or wall when complete as designed will have miles of holes in it and non existent in some places. A lethal electric fence that is complete from end to end and provides perimeter detection as well as ground detection and defenses I might support but not this public placebo they are force feeding the public.

 

All I'm saying is embrace the problem with real solutions don't cling to some fantasy "I'll protect you" idea sold to you by a politician.

[+Dave 2,322]

 

All I'm saying is embrace the problem with real solutions don't cling to some fantasy "I'll protect you" idea sold to you by a politician.

 

Right on Erik, right on.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Hm... I say build a mile deep trench that's 1/4 mile wide.

[+Erik 1,812]

It will eventually fill up.

[shotdown 8]

Funny thing is that countries with far tougher immigration laws than the one propossed in Arizona are complaining about the americans closing the door. It's like Hitler calling Mussolini a tyranical dictator.

[serverandenforcer 33]

It will eventually fill up.

 

Not if you regularly set the floor of the trench on fire.

[Gr.Viper 131]

What if they fly into the trench and drop a bomb into the Earth's core???

[JediMaster 451]

They still haven't stopped the ones coming over to FL by boats and rafts, are they going to build a fence there too? Should it be on the beach or out in the water?

 

I'm opposed to spending billions to mitigate a problem by a few percent. If the "cure" costs more than the problem, it's not a cure!

 

 

The obvious solution is to lower the wages in those areas to below Mexican standards so that there's no appeal.