SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[cougar_1979 37]

Definitely agree with Cougar.  I took a flight of Super Foxes against an Eagle squad yesterday (by accident, but that's not important right now )  and the only way I could stay competitive was to keep super low and fast to avoid Sparrows, then pop up and take advantage of better turn rates and close-in IR shots right after the merge.  Got all but one before the Golden Sparrow came...

How did you manage to beat them? Got any useful tips WVR? The onaly way i could outfly a 4th gen in an A-4 so far, was to go single circle on him right away, and perhaps goad him into falt scissors if i fail to get him on the first cross.

[DoctorDrago 3]

How did you manage to beat them? Got any useful tips WVR? The onaly way i could outfly a 4th gen in an A-4 so far, was to go single circle on him right away, and perhaps goad him into falt scissors if i fail to get him on the first cross.

That is pretty much exactly it.  The fight was a 2v4, but my wingman got hit almost immediately every time.  I stayed below 500 AGL until the merge, popping expendables to avoid the BVR shots.  Compared to flying higher I felt like the missiles were having a harder time tracking me against clutter, but I don't know how rigorously the sim models that.  In any case it was the only way I could survive to get into visual range...

 

At the merge, the Eagles stayed up on their perch, so I performed an Immelman directly underneath them, which presented me with two hot tailpipes (well, four, because Eagles). Two heater kills, and immediately into an ugly chandelle-ish circle to get some energy and turn inside Eagle 3 for another sidewinder shot.  At that point I was  completely  out of energy at medium altitude, and Eagle 4 put a Sparrow into me.  

 

This was also the last of six or seven disastrous tries at the same setup, and the only one where I even got close before getting popped, so there was a fair amount of luck involved too. But since then I've had more success with NOE evasion with other platforms, so I feel pretty confident in that tactic at least. 

[saisran 84]

Here's to hoping for some playtime during the coming holidays. As of now i managed to sneak it a couple of flights. 

 

I got no vids or pics just a story.

 

F-14B Vs F-22A Raptor. Guns only

 

After sweeping a flight of bombers and their escorts i was left with plenty of fuel after the drop tank so i decided to order my flight home and practice some low flying. RC spotted a bandit 5 miles 7 oclock. Not wanting to be a sitting duck i went and pointed my nose in the bandits direction to get him on radar. Got nothing asked RC for bandit position; 5 miles, 12 oclock, angles 0. Im looking at the right place but the tomcat's radar isn't showing the bandit. I scanned the horizon and saw the bandit just in time before he passed underneath. Took the cat up for a hard climb to the right, Blowers in full. Got visual on my shoulder, the game identified the bandit as an F-22. We Oscillated up and down in a right hand turngoin g around 320 to 380 Kias in about 4 turns in which duration the raptor took some snap shot which didn't connect. I needed some separation and more speed. endured until we get up to 5000 ft; rolled the cat in an inverted dive until  before 1k ft. rolled right up and pulled out of the dive just before the water. i was able to get 1nm and started a climbing back up in a right turn. managing my throttle and stick input i was able to maintain an airspeed of around 450 to 520 KIAS while maintaining a G loading of 4.5 to 4g. As it turns out the Raptor doesn't like flying this profile and had to back down to just over 400 KIAS just to turn with my tomcat. I felt an advantage and took the tomcat in the vertical which placed my tomcat above the Raptor. What happened next is the reason why the raptor should be feared. There i was; half a mile behind with my sights right on point and no radar lock. I toggled out of ACM to try for manual acquisition and no joy. My gunnery hasn't always been my strong point but it has always been quite a long time since i went analog. I followed the raptor though every turn with each of my shot being a result of a misinterpretation of the gun sight. Finally, i threw caution out the windows and drove my tomcat right up close so that his afterburner can melt the nose of my cat. He jinked up and i waited for him to bring his nose down, placed a bit of rudder correction to steady the sights; and took a short burst which set the raptors engine on fire. After that it's a slow descent to the ocean below. 

 

It was really amazing that during 16 mins( i think) i tangled with the raptor, i only spent a few thousand lbs of fuel. I was never in the burner except for the instance i needed to extend and for the couple of occasions i went vertical. for the most part i was only using 30 to 50% of the tomcat's power to keep up with the raptor. I guess it help the fight that i didn't pulled the stick too hard. it seems like the raptor doesn't like it when the opponents isn't going for who ca turn the tightest approach. Although the radar failing to lock has always been an issue against stealth fighters; given the right circumstances you can get a radar lock. And even if you don't you can always rely on the latest -9s and good gunnery.

[cougar_1979 37]

That's one fight i really wanted to see

[saisran 84]

That's one fight i really wanted to see

Sorry Cougar. Still unable to make my Mirilis work. I gues one of the nvidia update butchered the software.

[saisran 84]

i tried to see i can replicate the fight against the F-22.  Still have some quirks on the recording software but its working somewhat but with audio issue.

 

The first practice battle was all over the place. as i was trying to fight while trying to maintain visual by using the mouse to pan the camera. End result was i lost orientation to my planes position to the ground several times. Therefore, i went back on what i was usually do and made this DACT. 

 

F-14B vs F-22 Raptor Guns only. 

 

I was cruising at 8000ft, speed of 450kts when i got a RWR warning. My instruments shows i'm getting pinged by someone upfront. Of course, even the Tomcats Awesomely powerful radar can get negated by the raptor's stealth. Added power and head straight to the threat. Got visual around 5nm just a bit to the left of my nose. Just around mach one we merged. i nosed my jet up and take a climbing left turn. Trading my speed for altitude and in attempt to get a position of advantage. I allowed the tomcat to bleed off airspeed as i climbed above 14,000 ft. At this point we were probably just behind the 3-9 line of each others plane.  as the tomcat's speed drops to 400 Kias, plugged in the burner as the tomcat begins it's descent; pulled just a bit harder to tighten my turn. I was on the descent and hes trying to gain altitude. (We are just about to complete two turn cycles)  I felt that the position was good so i eased of the power to try and maintain speed and turning rate. Slowly but surely my nose bagan to threaten him. He was going around 350Kias and i was coming in from 500 Kias to about 450 Kias.  The Raptor reveresed is turn to throw me off but i was able to cut him off. trying to steady the piper on center as best as i could, i saw a probable opportunity and took it. It was a bit too far and not enough lead. I kept on pursuit and saw him level his plane. I dont know if he was either trying to extend, or reversing his turn. either way, i had too much energy for him to try either. He grew bigger on my sight and before he could try anything else. I pressed the trigger and allow as many rounds as needed.

 

https://youtu.be/Cw2EgTOYYPg

 

For whatever reason, the raptor wasn't as aggressive as the one i met in the campaign. Probably because i was able to met him on equal ground on the merged and i kept him on the defensive early on since i knew who he is and what threat i had to deal with. In a campaign scenario, if ever i got an RWR screaming at me ad can't get a radar lock myself i would have dived into the clutter immediately which would have placed me on the defensive and would have made it hell trying to reverse position while still keeping an eye out on other threats. Still Tomcat 2! Raptor 0!

 

[ShrikeHawk 384]

8 Macchi C.202s vs 16 P-40Ls

 

I have this C.202 that was giving me fits. The AI simply couldn't handle the FM very well. If the AI cannot perform the settings for them as directed (climbspeed, cornerspeed, etc) they tend to wallow or wander aimlessly. I've been getting good results with the C.202 when I noticed it seemed very floppy in the pitch. The AI were doing better, but I wanted to fix this for me. I adjusted the cmdc in the elevators. This could potentially reduce maneuverability, but I thought making the plane a more stable gun platform would be worth it. It had better results than I expected.

 

I edited a random single mission to pit 8 Macchis versus 8 P-40s. In 8v8 missions you can get a better idea of AI performance than in 4v4.There were other enemy flights, but I rarely see them during the mission, so I ignored that. I started the mission and noticed right away that my cmdc edits were paying off. The Macchi handled much more smoothly, with more certainty.

 

And then things got ugly.

 

Just as we engaged the enemy, a second flight of 8 P-40Ls arrived. My 8 C.202s now faced 16 P-40Ls. I build my FMs to make for extremely aggressive AIs and the P-40s are very, very good at this.  The C.202s have very weak armament (2x .30 cal, and 2x .50 cal). Usually, the AI get very few kills with such weak guns. Even if they can engage successfully, they often blow their whole ammo supply without a decisive result.  I figured I'm dead because the AI won't hold the enemy fighters off well enough, and this test is a bust.   I fought on anyway...because it's fun.

 

Much to my amazement, I survived the battle. Even more amazing, I only lost two of my wingmen! Nearly every single one of the P-40Ls were hit. The engagement ended with nearly half of the 16 P-40s wandering off with damage. Every time I targeted one, it had damage. The AIs performed magnificently! In this battle, I got a very high hit percentage. The weak guns couldn't bring a P-40 down quickly, but it could tear up the controls. I just kept shooting at the moving targets until their controls were shot out.  My plodding targets lost the means to evade. And that's when I bored into point blank range with guns blazing. I never once shot a wing off, but tore everything else apart. Often, their engines just quit on them.

 

It was a proud moment for me. Everything worked better than I expected. Making the plane a more stable gun platform was an immense payoff. It benefited the AIs as well, who now seemed more aggressive with more stable pitch controls. Below is the final tally, and below that, a typical shootdown during the mission.

 

 

[Caesar 305]

Cool to see some WWII era stuff!

[cougar_1979 37]

Great flying mates!

[ShrikeHawk 384]

They really did a great job. If they'd been armed with cannon, they might've shot everything down!

[Caesar 305]

This is one I wish I had recorded, or taken screenies during the fight.  I made a mission to simulate the first mission of Ace Combat 5 using the UK terrain; still haven't added the spy plane yet, but it's basically a 4v12 with rear-aspect short-range missiles.  I swap out the various aircraft, and in this instance the setup was myself in an F-14D, an F-4E (75) and two F-15A's.  Loadouts were:

 

F-14D: 4x AIM-54A, 2x AIM-7F, 2x AIM-9H & Gun

F-4E & F-15A: 4x AIM-7F, 4x AIM-9E-2 & Gun

All MiG-21's were packing AA-2's.

 

Because I can't load tanks on the F-4E's and F-15's when flying the F-14, I chose to fly the squadron part of the way to the target, then Alt-N to get to the engagement area, even though I know this is going to limit our range/face-shooter advantage.  Since the Fishbeds are only packing rear-aspect IRMs, this makes it a bit more even anyway.  Upon the skip, Hawkeye notifies the flight of bandits in the area, and my radar gets three groups of four.  Knowing I want to fire all my Phoenix missiles pre-merge to keep weight off the jet, and knowing the AIM-54 has a long Rmin, I elect to engage the furthest group with AIM-54's, then worry about the closer guys.  I direct my flight and wingman to engage air targets, knowing they'll likely shoot at the closest groups.  While I designate four targets (~15NM away, flying nearly perpendicular to my vector), -3 opens up with a Sparrow against one of the closing Fishbeds.  I begin ripple firing four AIM-54's ten seconds later, with two going stupid and two guiding proper.  -3 fires another Sparrow after the first misses, and two Fishbeds take the two AIM-54's to the face.  No kill remarks from -3, and I continue to focus on the far group.  Two Sparrows later, and the far group is dead.

 

As the center group gets into it with the F-15's, one of the MiG-21's has gotten on -3's tails and looses an AA-2 in his direction.  Being that there are several mountains in the area, I believe -3 crashed during his defensive break, and he is not shot down, but rather crashes into a mountain side.  It is around this same time I put the F-14 into about a 6g turn towards my flight, directing -4 to engage air, and noticing some of the Fishbeds have broken away to engage me.  The third flight closed with my flight and a furball ensued.  There are two MiG-21's on -4's tails, and I know I can get an easy pair of kills as they engage him.  Tone on one, Fox 2, kill, tone on two, Fox 2, kill.  In the midst of this, -4 takes a shot at someone on -2's tail, but misses.  I now take this target.

 

The fight here is almost entirely horizontal at around 8-15,000 feet, and the highest "g" I put on the F-14 was 7.6g; for the majority of the fight, I had the engines around 50% throttle, only tapping burner to catch up to my targets.  The GE engines allow me to catch up to the MiG-21 that is harassing -4, who is doing a great job preventing the Fishbed from getting a shot on him.  Line up and shoot him down with the gun.  I notice another Fishbed on -2, and work my way over.  About 30 seconds after my gun kill, that Fishbed fires on -2 with an AA-2, and misses.  About one minute later, I saw his wing off with the Vulcan, and down he goes.  Another attempts the same thing, but this time, fires two AA-2's, and again -2 evades.  Hell of a Phantom Phlyer, this AI!  Again, I put about a 5.5g turn on the jet, accelerate, get on his six, and saw his wing off for another kill.  About 30 seconds later, I bring the aircraft down on a Fishbed who is trying to catch up to -4, but not doing a great job against the F-15.  Guns kill #5.  The last kill is against the final Fishbed that is attempting to gun -4.  -2 winds up on this one's tail, and I'm a little behind -2.  -2 hits, but doesn't kill the MiG-21 and runs out of ammo in the process.  -4 has extended and the MiG attempts to disengage.  I slide in as -2 breaks off and shoot him down for guns kill #6.

 

End of mission.

 

 

Takeaways:

Against bandits with rear-aspect missiles, keeping the energy up allows you to not only deny your foe a shot by cutting off angles, but also keeps the aircraft in a region where it can accelerate better to catch up to other foes and shoot them with a missile or guns.  I flew this mission multiple times.  The time before this the team was comprised of an F-14D, F-4E, and 2x F-5E's.  The MiG-21's got three missile and two gun shots on me; none connected, because I never let the aircraft drop below 300 knots, and always had the energy to evade.  I also ran this in a more period-correct F-14A with similar results.  While I love getting into a slow-speed, flaps down, dirty knife fight in a phone booth in 1v1, 1v2 or even sometimes 1v4 scenarios (much more rare), that is NOT the place you want to be when there's a lot of bandits in the skies with missiles.  I was also real happy to get the six gun kills!  Haven't done that in a while...

 

Leaving the combat zone:

 

Landing back on the island:

[saisran 84]

This is one I wish I had recorded, or taken screenies during the fight.  I made a mission to simulate the first mission of Ace Combat 5 using the UK terrain; still haven't added the spy plane yet, but it's basically a 4v12 with rear-aspect short-range missiles.  I swap out the various aircraft, and in this instance the setup was myself in an F-14D, an F-4E (75) and two F-15A's.  Loadouts were:

 

F-14D: 4x AIM-54A, 2x AIM-7F, 2x AIM-9H & Gun

F-4E & F-15A: 4x AIM-7F, 4x AIM-9E-2 & Gun

All MiG-21's were packing AA-2's.

 

Because I can't load tanks on the F-4E's and F-15's when flying the F-14, I chose to fly the squadron part of the way to the target, then Alt-N to get to the engagement area, even though I know this is going to limit our range/face-shooter advantage.  Since the Fishbeds are only packing rear-aspect IRMs, this makes it a bit more even anyway.  Upon the skip, Hawkeye notifies the flight of bandits in the area, and my radar gets three groups of four.  Knowing I want to fire all my Phoenix missiles pre-merge to keep weight off the jet, and knowing the AIM-54 has a long Rmin, I elect to engage the furthest group with AIM-54's, then worry about the closer guys.  I direct my flight and wingman to engage air targets, knowing they'll likely shoot at the closest groups.  While I designate four targets (~15NM away, flying nearly perpendicular to my vector), -3 opens up with a Sparrow against one of the closing Fishbeds.  I begin ripple firing four AIM-54's ten seconds later, with two going stupid and two guiding proper.  -3 fires another Sparrow after the first misses, and two Fishbeds take the two AIM-54's to the face.  No kill remarks from -3, and I continue to focus on the far group.  Two Sparrows later, and the far group is dead.

 

As the center group gets into it with the F-15's, one of the MiG-21's has gotten on -3's tails and looses an AA-2 in his direction.  Being that there are several mountains in the area, I believe -3 crashed during his defensive break, and he is not shot down, but rather crashes into a mountain side.  It is around this same time I put the F-14 into about a 6g turn towards my flight, directing -4 to engage air, and noticing some of the Fishbeds have broken away to engage me.  The third flight closed with my flight and a furball ensued.  There are two MiG-21's on -4's tails, and I know I can get an easy pair of kills as they engage him.  Tone on one, Fox 2, kill, tone on two, Fox 2, kill.  In the midst of this, -4 takes a shot at someone on -2's tail, but misses.  I now take this target.

 

The fight here is almost entirely horizontal at around 8-15,000 feet, and the highest "g" I put on the F-14 was 7.6g; for the majority of the fight, I had the engines around 50% throttle, only tapping burner to catch up to my targets.  The GE engines allow me to catch up to the MiG-21 that is harassing -4, who is doing a great job preventing the Fishbed from getting a shot on him.  Line up and shoot him down with the gun.  I notice another Fishbed on -2, and work my way over.  About 30 seconds after my gun kill, that Fishbed fires on -2 with an AA-2, and misses.  About one minute later, I saw his wing off with the Vulcan, and down he goes.  Another attempts the same thing, but this time, fires two AA-2's, and again -2 evades.  Hell of a Phantom Phlyer, this AI!  Again, I put about a 5.5g turn on the jet, accelerate, get on his six, and saw his wing off for another kill.  About 30 seconds later, I bring the aircraft down on a Fishbed who is trying to catch up to -4, but not doing a great job against the F-15.  Guns kill #5.  The last kill is against the final Fishbed that is attempting to gun -4.  -2 winds up on this one's tail, and I'm a little behind -2.  -2 hits, but doesn't kill the MiG-21 and runs out of ammo in the process.  -4 has extended and the MiG attempts to disengage.  I slide in as -2 breaks off and shoot him down for guns kill #6.

 

End of mission.

 

 

Takeaways:

Against bandits with rear-aspect missiles, keeping the energy up allows you to not only deny your foe a shot by cutting off angles, but also keeps the aircraft in a region where it can accelerate better to catch up to other foes and shoot them with a missile or guns.  I flew this mission multiple times.  The time before this the team was comprised of an F-14D, F-4E, and 2x F-5E's.  The MiG-21's got three missile and two gun shots on me; none connected, because I never let the aircraft drop below 300 knots, and always had the energy to evade.  I also ran this in a more period-correct F-14A with similar results.  While I love getting into a slow-speed, flaps down, dirty knife fight in a phone booth in 1v1, 1v2 or even sometimes 1v4 scenarios (much more rare), that is NOT the place you want to be when there's a lot of bandits in the skies with missiles.  I was also real happy to get the six gun kills!  Haven't done that in a while...

 

Leaving the combat zone:

 

Landing back on the island:

 

Very nice gunnery Caesar. 6 Gun kills for just 1 short of 300 rounds. That's some pretty good sharpshooting. I do wish you had it on Video. :)

[Stratos 3,191]

Guys can I request a small series of MiG-21bis vs F-5E please? Guns and IR missiles and both sides If possible. Want to know how those two planes compare against each other.

[saisran 84]

Guys can I request a small series of MiG-21bis vs F-5E please? Guns and IR missiles and both sides If possible. Want to know how those two planes compare against each other.

This is an interesting one. Any takers?

[Stratos 3,191]

This is an interesting one. Any takers?

 

I will give it a go myself, but I'm not the best dogfighter out there, that's why I make the request here too.

[saisran 84]

I will give it a go myself, but I'm not the best dogfighter out there, that's why I make the request here too.

Same here. I'm not too confident in being able to handle the Mig. Maybe Eric and the other can give it a go.

[+EricJ 4,244]

Lol maybe if I wanted to commit suicide.  Fact offhand is that the Mig-21 is NOT the plane I'd think capable of handling the F-5 but vice versa should be easy, I guess I'll do it sometime.

[+EricJ 4,244]

Well ten minutes later...

 

All Bouts:

 

Me: F-5E Sharknose Tiger II with 2 x AIM-9X (and for the last two) 2 x IRIS-T, and guns

Opposition: Mig-21bis "Fishbed-N" with at least gun, and maybe missles

 

First bout:  Maneuvered and found out the Tiger II's poor wing loading, almost fell into the ground but luckily the FIsbhed Lawn Darted into the ground.

 

Second Bout: I Lawn Darted into the ground

 

Thirt bout:  THey say that "third time's a charm" and this itme it was.  Managed to not be soo aggressive on the pitch (which caused the problems earlier) and managed to not pancake into the ground.  After that needless to say the FIshbed even on padlock is a real pain to keep track of, but given I had better missiles all I had to do was keep him from maneuvering.  As much as I chastised (:Famous Last words") the thing is with the TIger II you have to be firm with it but not too hard.  Too hard and you end up losing a lot of lift fast and given my first time flying it, pancaked into the ground the second time.  Aganist the MIg-21 which has a better wing and tail area, managed to outmaneuver me and quite literally win the energy fight.  But once you fiugre out what your issue is (or mine in this case) another joiust wil help you keep yourself flying and focus on killing the enemy.  So that being said I managed to keep the Mig from maneuvering and played with him a bit before spiking him with an IRIS-T.

 

Takeaways:  Not much to add other than be firm with the stick on the Tiger II and not cause yourself to lose lift so easily.

Edited April 11, 2015 by EricJ

[Caesar 305]

Nice report, Eric!  I took the Tiger up against a variety of aircraft when the new one got released, but I don't remember if the MiG-21 was one of them (I recall F-4, F-14, F-15, and F-16 at least).  I can try my hand at it, too.

[Caesar 305]

This is the F-5 side of the fight.  I took up an F-5E(72) against a MiG-21Bis Fishbed-L.  Loadouts were:

 

F-5E: 2x AIM-9J, Guns

MiG-21Bis: 4x AA-2, Guns

 

The fight started at the merge with both aircraft turning into each other.  The Tiger turned a bit nose high, the Fishbed a bit nose-low.  Keeping around 5.5-6g in the turn at the high 400's of knots, the Fishbed was able to start getting behind the Tiger's 3/9 line.  The Tiger pulled harder as the two started to come back together, now in the high 300's, but nose-low, about 20 seconds post-merge.  The two aircraft passed and the circle continued.  The Fishbed continued to turn nose-low, allowing the Tiger to maintain more "g" as well.

 

 

 

As the Fishbed maintained its turn, the F-5 was able to catch up and get nose-on keeping around 400 knots, and about 7g.  Roughly 25 seconds after the start of the second circle, the F-5 gets tone with an AIM-9, but waits to shoot until the angle is better.  Unfortunately, this also made the distance much less, and the J-model AIM-9 missed upon firing.  As the F-5 was diving on the MiG-21 at the time, higher "g" was necessary to stay on the Fishbed as it climbed.  The F-5 loaded about 8.5-9g in an ascending turn to stay on the Fishbed.  The Tiger selected gun, but had too much closure velocity, and pulled straight up to get above, and hopefully back behind the MiG.

 

 

 

 

This worked, and the Tiger pirouettes high and above the Fishbed, coming back down from on-high.  In 15 seconds, the F-5 is back on the MiG-21's tail.  This taks a 9-9.3g turn due to the remaining energy, at about 430KIAS.  As it appears another overshoot is possible, the Tiger inputs full right rudder to slice the nose into the Fishbed's flight path and fires a burst of rounds, taking out the Fishbed's engine and right wing, ending the fight about 2 minutes, 50 seconds after the merge.

 

 

Takeaways: the F-5 appears to be a better sustained turner than the MiG-21Bis.  My position of advantage was achieved through an energy circle, but actual exploitation of that advantage required use of the vertical plane when the Fishbed slowed down.  I had the feeling the AIM-9J's wouldn't work well, and they didn't.  They seem to take a moment to start maneuvering, and I don't feel like I can rely on them like the Navy AIM-9H.  In the end, it was the gun that got him.

[+EricJ 4,244]

Nice report, Eric!  I took the Tiger up against a variety of aircraft when the new one got released, but I don't remember if the MiG-21 was one of them (I recall F-4, F-14, F-15, and F-16 at least).  I can try my hand at it, too.

 

Nice, this is actually my first time (I think) in using the F-5E instead as a target though I have flown it bakk maybe years ago but overall it's a nice plane in it's own way

[saisran 84]

Decided to download a flyable Mig-21 and got 5tipe's croatian Mig-21bisD which was i guess a modernized jet with a western style cockpit. I'm a bit disappointed and pleased with the plane at the same time. I was looking forward to wrestling hardships of flying an unfamiliar system but i was instead greeted with a familiar US Style cockpit and a very sweet handling aircraft. While i fee the plane doesn't like going below 300 knts and has a sluggish throttle response; the plane flies well and smooth around the upper 300 knits region. 

 

If you all would like to watch the three sets of videos. (Testing out OBS recording software) You can see that for the first fight i failed to take notice of the 2nd F-5 on my tail and got taken out. The 2nd fight was a very easy A-toll kill which uncharacteristically guided nicely all the way to the target. And lastly, tried a lot of patience opting not to take 2 earlier opportunities to take a no chance to miss hit with the 30mm cannons.

 

https://youtu.be/zfMr1Rko73c

 

https://youtu.be/ajFp7TZ6CK4

 

https://youtu.be/pZUQWVIAcSI

 

This version of the -21 was a very capable fighter. You hold the throttle in the setting you want and control how fast and how tight you fly by virtue of the stick and rudder. It also has a nicely tuned gunsight which makes gunnery a lot easier. To be honest i think it flies too well (or maybe i just really have no idea how the Migs work) will ave to try an older version for comparison.

[+EricJ 4,244]

Lol that post I made above made me look very biased in my post above didn't it?

 

The Mig-21 isn't a slouch no doubt but I guess I'm polarized by flying the Super Bug too much I guess

Edited April 11, 2015 by EricJ

[saisran 84]

Reflecting on it. I dont think your post is biased at an EricJ. I really think there might be something different between the FM of the -21 i downloaded (since its a modernized-westernized version), For one its has a delta like wing that's supposed to bleed energy real fast, but i was able to sustain a pretty decent turn rate for a very long time. I'm thinking of confirming this later on by placing a pit with the stock mig-21. 

[+EricJ 4,244]

Okay yeah.... I never really tried (but maybe I should) as I've flown it, but not in a DACT and that was a Lancer one... I think I still have it and well... I can do this:

 

2 bouts

Me: Mig-21 LanceR C with 4 x AIM-9M, gun, tank (First bout)

Opposition: F-5E with 4 x IRIS-T (defaulted to that missile), guns.

 

Startef off as normal and let him play around and well.... the F-5E done by Centurion-1 doesn't have a UFO like flight altitude but man that thing has some serious turning abillity as well as better energy than the LanceR.  It was nice that the LanceR can carry more capable AAMs and while I had the ability to fire Russkie versions, I went Western.  I desperately tried not to Lawn Dart or plow myself into the ground in some cases (even though I still had some good control authority) but in most cases I was simply trying to get myself into a launch position so I can get a shot off, and maybe work myself into a better one if that one had missed.  But the pilot would overmatch my moves and essentially had the better energy to counter me and keep me from getting a good solution while he worked himself into a better one so he could spike me.  So most of the bouts I was simply trying to get him off of me and wear him out but he still had plenty of energy going for him while I was floundering around trying to stay aloft and again, not Lawn Dart into the ground.  I managed on the second bout to try and work him into the ground (more or less a Phyrric victory_) but he wouldn't play and kept going.  Any energy circle I would try and break out he would simply reverse on me and again fly around while he simply pulled and flew around to get me in his sights. Pretty much both bouts I ended up taking an IRIS-T to the tail which by game logic "killed" me.  The second bout only ended up like the first, only took a bit longer.  Most that happened was I managed to evade one IRIS-T as he tried to spike me, but in the end the Tiger II maneuvered on me and managed to gret me in the end.  Enough of the LanceR.

 

Takeaways:  I may have pulled stick too hard and that's what did me in, I think but the LanceR simply didn't have the push I felt compared to the TIger II, which as said while doesn't have a UFO-like flight model, moves.  Maybe it's just inexperience or the fact that the LanceR isn't as capable as the Mig-21 is supposed to be.  To be fair it has BVR capability but against the Tiger II in the WVR fight.... it may not be the good choice but if you can catch the TIger II in a good position and carry good AAMs this point may be moot.  The good thing as mentioned was that the LanceR can carry better missiles than the installed Russkie ones i currently have and quite frankly don't have much confidence in that the Tiger II can outmach my Aphids with early to late model Sidewinders, or in this case IRIS-Ts.  However it was a simple energy issue and while the LanceR is a good upgrade of the basic Fishbed it still doesn't have the push (in my mind) to be able to counter the energy and abilty of the Tiger II to feel comfortable in going up against it again.

 

Me: Super Hornet F/A-18F Block II EPE w/4 x AIM-9X, 6 x AIM-120, tank, gun.

Opposition: F-5E Tiger II with 4 x IRIS-T and guns

 

I was a little chagrined that I got my ass handed to me twice so I decided to shake off the rust and get back at the Tiger II.  Comparatively speaking the F/A-18F is about twice as heavy (or three times) as the TIger II but the extra "push" from the EPE engines made a big difference as after nearly mid-air colliding with him we started to play.  He rolled to the right relative to my position and turned and I simply followed him and worked myself into the kill slot and essentially rolled and pulled and quite honestly was ablet to match ihs moves easily, keeping him in front of me and the Tiger II managed to try and maneuver out of the kill slot but again ingrained reflexes simply took over and quite honestly able to read him pretty good and keep him from working out of it.  And it was quite fun to be able to roll and counter him constantly as he tried to work himself out and force and overshoot, but old reflexes die hard with a jet you've flown for a good while.  Once I got a little tired (though I should have kept playing with him because I'll be honest that's one of the most fun engagements I've done in a long while, man it was great.. I mean that's just a good touch to a real weird day.  Anyway he ended up on my left and while the cross shot doesn't work and isn't recommended, I fired off-boresight (he was essentially pointing near 45 degrees towards my nose, roughly I think) with a 9X and splashed him.

 

Takeaways:  Again the Super Hornet is of course heavier than the TIger II by somewhat of a long shot but unlike the Mig-21 does have that push and feel of energy that compared to the LanceR and has and made it a very satisfying engagement and kill.  So by all rights of the imagination the Tiger should be able to simply outmanever the Super by sheer weight.  But as mentioned on another topic you're looking at  a generation gap between the two fighters and therefore with the push from the engines it was a matter of simply rolling and managing your own energy against a highly mobile aircraft that can stilll shoot you down if you're not paying attention.  But in all honesty using the Super Hornet and knowing you'll win shows that newer technology and a trained pilot can take on a variety of aircraft and still come out ahead.  However it should be said that the IRIS-T wasn't a joke and therefore I had that in mind for all of the bouts.  While there can be discussion on comparative capability vs. the AIM-9X overall keeping the Tiger II from maneuvering around to spike me is a preferred solution.

Edited April 12, 2015 by EricJ