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33LIMA

P4 - most desirable improvements

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Not a fan of wish lists and this isn't one per se, but it IS one simmer's feedback - one not long in the tooth with P3 but who was in with P1 and 2 from early days and has a lot of propsim experience including RB3d, FCG, and FE.

 

Some of these are already coming with P4, which is great, and noted below where known to me. A few may be specific to how OFF works on my modest rig or current settings (sliders 5-5-3-3-5-5, 1600x900, 4xAA, 4xAF, Olham's recommended settings otherwise). Others may be impossible for the CFS3 engine or otherwise ruled out for P4 (or as a mod or expansion for P3 for that matter). But FWIW this is my take on what I think would make the biggest improvements in the OFF experience.

 

What do others think?

Planeset

1. Priority - DH4 (even AI) to provide 1917-18 RFC/RAF/USAAS day bomber missions & interceptions and fill one of the few big gaps in the OFF planeset

2. Priority - BE2e, and/or realistic defensive armament for BE2c [observer-armed BE2c announced for P4]

3. Priority - flyable or AI Breguet 14

4. Flyable or AI later-war German 2-seater(s) [flyable Rumpler CIV announced for P4]

5. Flyable or AI early/mid-war 2-seaters [Morane parasol and Aviatik CII announced for P4]

6. Additional AI-only planes to fill, as economically as possible, significant ORBAT gaps and/or add a bit more variety eg AW FK8, Voisin 5, Nieuport 10/12, Dorand AR, Caudron R, DH9, SSW DIII/IV, Pfalz DXII, LVG CV/VI.

 

Others (in no particular order)

(i) Increase plane visibility so as to ensure they can be (a) seen & (b) identified in most situations at greater ranges [(a)1-3m, (b) c.1m] from external or cockpit views (if looking in right direction) WITHOUT resort to zoom, TAC, FOV changes or other 'aids' [increases realism, improves scope for better patrol tactics eg stalking, refusing combat]

 

(ii) Reduce excessive spread of AA fire (especially vertical spread), compensate if needed to maintain low lethality [helps with (i), at present you can be staring at flak bursts and see nothing, let alone numbers, height and heading, let further alone type, till way too close]

 

(iii) Increase persistence of AA burst effects [they tend to disappear on panning]

 

(iv) Ensure all plane LODs have no poor transitions eg on my rig, all Albatros models don't displaying any undercart until within c.250 yard, then it suddenly pops in.

 

(v) Provide separate AI planes, modded so as to prevent AI flying at unladen weights eg by adding, say, half of fuel & ammo weight to AI planes' ULW [an undesirable legacy CFS3 feature which makes AI planes unrealistically agile, and which may account for reports of OFF AI planes seeming to climb without speed loss]

 

(vi) All default skins - bring up to same standard as best [eg Pup to Albatros standard]

 

(vii) Reduce inability of player and AI planes to make successful forced or crash landings

 

(viii) Improve 2-seater AI defensive tactics - preferably, vary between: formation flying straight & level for gunners, or limited weaving about mean course, or RTB'ing, or Lufberry circle, or counterattacking [latter 1-2 maybe only for some eg FE, Strutter]

 

(ix) Improve rear gunner fields of fire or otherwise increase % poss of at least receiving return fire (not accuracy).

 

(x) Rivers, railways & roads - remove/smooth 'corners' [P4 screenshots suggest this is coming for rivers at least]

 

(xi) Scenery objects - improve draw-in of trees etc eg fade-in rather than sudden, hi-vis pop-up at medium or higher slider settings

 

(xii) Remove/replace unrealistic damage visuals & effects eg inline and rotary engines falling out of otherwise intact fuselage

 

(xiii) Delay instant jumpers from flamers (variable, min c.5-10 seconds)

 

(xiv) Improve ability of wingmen to follow leader (eg stop them going well wide even in gentle course changes)

 

(xv) Introduce sun glare AI visibility penalty, if not already in effect [to encourage player to use the sun tactically]

 

(xvi) Remove/reduce assignment of unrealistic campaign missions eg Jastas on railyard attacks or patrols behind enemy lines.

 

(xvii) Introduce numerous active (visibly firing) artillery battery positions - 4-6 guns each with command post, poss emplaced and/or camouflaged - in the 'gun zone' either side of lines [maybe already there but not seen by me; would be a primary feature of the combat zone and a high-priority recce, strafing or bombing target]

 

(xviiii) Introduce facility for wireless-equipped (Morse not voice) 2-seaters to call in artillery fire on ground targets within suitable range of Lines (eg invisible bomb-armed wingmen for with wireless)

 

(xix) limit range of wingman commands (say to 1m, to simulate use of flares) if not already in effect

 

(xx) Remove modernisms like 'Intel' from menus (also an Americanism, it's 'Int' in the British Army, or at least was in my day, dunno what it was in 1917)

Edited by 33LIMA

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I've an inkling you'll get a good bit of (vi) in P4.

 

But, we'll get what we get. The good gentlemen who create this fine sim are their own worse critics and unstinting in their dedication to bring to life (as much as ever could be in the circumstances) the Great War in the Air.

 

P4 will be vast improvement on BHaH: HitR. Actually I want to know what they're going to call it.

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Lima,

 

Good list. Some of it may be unachievable, but there's not harm in asking, and some of the points you raise (like wayward wingmen) are quite annoying. I hope that the devs reply positively to your post, as it's a reasonable (if work intensive!) list.

 

Cheers

Si

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I guess, whatever you guys write into a wish list here, will always only be

an excerpt from the whole long list the OBD devs have hanging from their walls.

That is my confidence.

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P4 will be vast improvement on BHaH: HitR. Actually I want to know what they're going to call it.

 

Ok, I'm for starting to make recommendations or guess....... maybe see who is closest to it when it is published.

 

i.e. "OFF: Bloody April"

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Of all the suggestions for names I've heard, I still like OFF: Wooden Crosses. Iron Men the best. I wish I could give credit to who thought of it. Brilliant though.

 

However OFF: Hellshade Gets a Divorce edition is perfectly acceptable too. :rofl:

 

Hellshade

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(xiv) Improve ability of wingmen to follow leader (eg stop them going well wide even in gentle course changes)

I have every confidence that the team is going to make Phase 4 something special and I'll be happy with whatever improvements are made. If I could wish for just one thing though it would be this. :salute:

Edited by Shiloh

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A title for OFF Phase 4 is difficult.

What about: "When Hell froze over, they climbed the Skies" - joke! :grin:

 

But book titles like "Sagittarius rising" would perhaps suit.

Also: "Cross and Cockarde"

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We OFF fliers Have put forth many wish lists for P4 in the past. Many of 33LIMA's very good points have made those lists. This was some time back already. I think we can see many of our wishes present in the "work in progress pics" OBD have shared with us. It has also been stated that there is much more they cannot share at this time but that there is excitement in the team about various developements.

 

I am not against any lists but I kind of have the personal hope that things are progressing toward a release. Our expectations need to be realistic and perhaps somethings will never come to pass. Maybe there will be a P4 add-on or perhaps a P5. We need to remember that OBD does not do things in small measures. A new crate means all new campaigns in historical context for example.

 

We share a dream and apparently have much to look forward to. Expectations are high based on OBD's track record. My quess is, at this time, that what may be desired by OBD is patience and encouragement. If they're excited I'm excited. :drinks::ok:

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OFF P4 - "BALLS OF STEEL"

Edited by Morris

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A title for OFF Phase 4 is difficult.

What about: "When Hell froze over, they climbed the Skies" - joke! :grin:

 

But book titles like "Sagittarius rising" would perhaps suit.

Also: "Cross and Cockarde"

 

I like "Sagittarius Rising" as it sounds good and its astrological meaning fits well.

 

"Those with Sagittarius rising love adventure, change, and exploring new territory. They aren't happy confined to the same familiar, safe little world all the time. They have a strong restlessness and yearning for something greater than anything they've experienced before."

 

Maybe we could have a naming thread and each participant could enter 3 submissions, and a winner would be chosen by the almighty OFF developers. And the prize could be a free copy of P4 and unlimited insider information on P5. :blink:

 

Okay maybe not the last part. :grin:

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Whatever they call it, please, with sugar on top, don't use the word "Knights" anywhere.

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Whatever they call it, please, with sugar on top, don't use the word "Knights" anywhere.

 

How about Over Flanders Fields - Canvas Knights of the Sky? :grin:

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Not a fan of wish lists and this isn't one per se, but it IS one simmer's feedback - one not long in the tooth with P3 but who was in with P1 and 2 from early days and has a lot of propsim experience including RB3d, FCG, and FE.

 

Some of these are already coming with P4, which is great, and noted below where known to me. A few may be specific to how OFF works on my modest rig or current settings (sliders 5-5-3-3-5-5, 1600x900, 4xAA, 4xAF, Olham's recommended settings otherwise). Others may be impossible for the CFS3 engine or otherwise ruled out for P4 (or as a mod or expansion for P3 for that matter). But FWIW this is my take on what I think would make the biggest improvements in the OFF experience.

 

What do others think?

Planeset

1. Priority - DH4 (even AI) to provide 1917-18 RFC/RAF/USAAS day bomber missions & interceptions and fill one of the few big gaps in the OFF planeset

2. Priority - BE2e, and/or realistic defensive armament for BE2c [observer-armed BE2c announced for P4]

3. Priority - flyable or AI Breguet 14

4. Flyable or AI later-war German 2-seater(s) [flyable Rumpler CIV announced for P4]

5. Flyable or AI early/mid-war 2-seaters [Morane parasol and Aviatik CII announced for P4]

6. Additional AI-only planes to fill, as economically as possible, significant ORBAT gaps and/or add a bit more variety eg AW FK8, Voisin 5, Nieuport 10/12, Dorand AR, Caudron R, DH9, SSW DIII/IV, Pfalz DXII, LVG CV/VI.

 

Others (in no particular order)

(i) Increase plane visibility so as to ensure they can be (a) seen & (b) identified in most situations at greater ranges [(a)1-3m, (b) c.1m] from external or cockpit views (if looking in right direction) WITHOUT resort to zoom, TAC, FOV changes or other 'aids' [increases realism, improves scope for better patrol tactics eg stalking, refusing combat]

 

(ii) Reduce excessive spread of AA fire (especially vertical spread), compensate if needed to maintain low lethality [helps with (i), at present you can be staring at flak bursts and see nothing, let alone numbers, height and heading, let further alone type, till way too close]

 

(iii) Increase persistence of AA burst effects [they tend to disappear on panning]

 

(iv) Ensure all plane LODs have no poor transitions eg on my rig, all Albatros models don't displaying any undercart until within c.250 yard, then it suddenly pops in.

 

(v) Provide separate AI planes, modded so as to prevent AI flying at unladen weights eg by adding, say, half of fuel & ammo weight to AI planes' ULW [an undesirable legacy CFS3 feature which makes AI planes unrealistically agile, and which may account for reports of OFF AI planes seeming to climb without speed loss]

 

(vi) All default skins - bring up to same standard as best [eg Pup to Albatros standard]

 

(vii) Reduce inability of player and AI planes to make successful forced or crash landings

 

(viii) Improve 2-seater AI defensive tactics - preferably, vary between: formation flying straight & level for gunners, or limited weaving about mean course, or RTB'ing, or Lufberry circle, or counterattacking [latter 1-2 maybe only for some eg FE, Strutter]

 

(ix) Improve rear gunner fields of fire or otherwise increase % poss of at least receiving return fire (not accuracy).

 

(x) Rivers, railways & roads - remove/smooth 'corners' [P4 screenshots suggest this is coming for rivers at least]

 

(xi) Scenery objects - improve draw-in of trees etc eg fade-in rather than sudden, hi-vis pop-up at medium or higher slider settings

 

(xii) Remove/replace unrealistic damage visuals & effects eg inline and rotary engines falling out of otherwise intact fuselage

 

(xiii) Delay instant jumpers from flamers (variable, min c.5-10 seconds)

 

(xiv) Improve ability of wingmen to follow leader (eg stop them going well wide even in gentle course changes)

 

(xv) Introduce sun glare AI visibility penalty, if not already in effect [to encourage player to use the sun tactically]

 

(xvi) Remove/reduce assignment of unrealistic campaign missions eg Jastas on railyard attacks or patrols behind enemy lines.

 

(xvii) Introduce numerous active (visibly firing) artillery battery positions - 4-6 guns each with command post, poss emplaced and/or camouflaged - in the 'gun zone' either side of lines [maybe already there but not seen by me; would be a primary feature of the combat zone and a high-priority recce, strafing or bombing target]

 

(xviiii) Introduce facility for wireless-equipped (Morse not voice) 2-seaters to call in artillery fire on ground targets within suitable range of Lines (eg invisible bomb-armed wingmen for with wireless)

 

(xix) limit range of wingman commands (say to 1m, to simulate use of flares) if not already in effect

 

(xx) Remove modernisms like 'Intel' from menus (also an Americanism, it's 'Int' in the British Army, or at least was in my day, dunno what it was in 1917)

 

Wow, truly this is a Full Plate

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Personally, I would settle for a few more 2 Seat jobs early versions flyable and early French Voisin and Caudron as AI ( Albatros Fodder)

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Wow quite a list, P4 is well along development and of course many of those things are addressed directly or indirectly anyway but as we haven't released full features yet I think it's best we don't comment on all those individually for now.

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Wow quite a list, P4 is well along development and of course many of those things are addressed directly or indirectly anyway but as we haven't released full features yet I think it's best we don't comment on all those individually for now.

 

Understood and appreciated; I just wanted to make sure some of the 'other stuff' besides the shop window items like planes and environments still got a bit of advocacy. I'm sure we can rely on the team to package as much as possible into P4 besides the show-stealers; to me, all the less visible stuff was as much or more important in putting P3 so far ahead of P2, than the extra planes & better scenery; well worth the effort in terms of the immersiveness of the final P3 product.

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"I like "Sagittarius Rising" as it sounds good and its astrological meaning fits well."

 

That has a very authentic feel to it: Over Flanders Fields - Sagittarius Rising.

 

Probably mystify loads of people, but as far as I'm concerned, that is utterly superb, and if people don't get it, then the chances are that they aren't WWI flight simmers, in which case (shows arse).

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I like "Sagittarius Rising" as it sounds good and its astrological meaning fits well.

 

I susect copyright may exist over that one. I had thought of 'OFF: Valour's Cross' whereon the DVD image would have an Iron Cross, Military Cross, Blue Max, Victoria Cross, Croix de Guerre and Distinguished Flying Cross (et al.) fanned out and fading into the background to left and right, with a simple wooden cross at fore and centre, stark and chilling in its comparative simplicity.

Edited by Dej

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"I susect copyright may exist over that one. I had thought of 'OFF: Valour's Cross' whereon the DVD image would have an Iron Cross, Military Cross, Blue Max, Victoria Cross, Croix de Guerre and Distinguished Flying Cross (et al.) fanned out and fading into the background to left and right, with a simple wooden cross at fore and centre, stark and chilling in it's comparative simplicity."

 

It'll be interesting to see how OBD go with this. Maybe it's in copyright, but it's debatable if Lewis' estate would see this as anything other than a memorial. I certainly agree that P4 must have a stark, chilling and eye-catching image. If they can make an image that matches Matt Milne's P3 music, then they've cracked. My hint - keep it simple: do not crowd the image.

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Another good title leant from a good book about WW1 aviation would be "High in the empty Blue".

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If it has to be a book title, you could always go one better than the competition, and call it 'Over Flanders Fields - Blue Max Edition' :grin:

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Just to illustrate the point, this is what I mean by reducing the spread of AA fire and improving the visibility of aircraft. In these pics from FE2, I have been able to spot the 2 enemy planes (visible as moving specks, even if the smoke trail had not been there) right in the middle of the cluster of AA bursts, and determine that they are on their own, at roughly my own height, and heading across my nose from right to left. The crucial thing is that the spread of the AA bursts and the rendering of the distant planes meant that I was able to do this without any targeting aids, and while I'm still just far enough away to quickly consider my options, make a plan, and start implementing it.

 

gallery_66801_641_71535.jpg

 

gallery_66801_641_227069.jpg

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