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tiopilotos

Need help with missile parameters

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Guys I think I'm a little confused with the missile parameteres seeker rate and seeker FOV.

 

I want to edit some missile parameters by using the weapon editor. I actually want to edit the maximum effective range of the A-A missiles.

 

Maximum launch range is the longest distance in which a missile can be launched from an aircraft, right?

What is seeker range, what is FOV range and in which way these two affect the maximum effective range?

 

Thanks!

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Hey there! Well first of all, Seeker range is the maximum distance your seeker will detect a target and LOCK on it. For instance, if your max launch range is, say, 40km's, but your seeker range is 30km's, you HAVE to be at 30kms away from your target for your missile to lock onto the target.

 

Seeker FOV means the field of view that the missile percieves. Meaning, if a target is not inside that "Cone" of view, it won't lock on the target. This does not affect max range, but generally, having higher FOV's aids the missile in keeping track of the target in case if it's manouvering or if it is at a high off-boresight angle.

Seeker gimble limit also helps with missile performance, but does not impact max range.

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So, which factor refers to the maximum missile range?

 

In which way I can edit the maximum range for each missile?

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Most IRMs have a fairly narrow FOV (the R-73, for example, has a 2.5 degree field of view), and a fairly wide gimbel limit, often in excess of 70 degrees, off-boresight. In real life, a wide FOV would compromise the missile's performance, making it much more susceptible to counter measures, or even environmental factors (the sun, the ground, etc)

 

Track rate is likewise of great importance, and is measured in degrees per second. A missile with a slow track rate, may miss when a target performs a violent maneuver that exceeds the seeker head's ability to slew it's optical window (or radar receiver), fast enough to follow that target.

 

In game, allowances must often be made to enable or emulate real-world performance, such as increased FOVs and Gimbel limits on vertically launched SAMs, and wide FOVs to emulate a helmet mounted sight, or an IRST system.

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So, which factor refers to the maximum missile range?

 

In which way I can edit the maximum range for each missile?

 

Basically, to edit the maximum range for each missile, you have to edit the "Max launch range" and "Seeker range" entries in the .ini file. Make sure they match to make things easier. Also, there is "missile duration" to consider. you have to make sure the missile won't "finish" before the max range is aquired.

 

 

 

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Basically, to edit the maximum range for each missile, you have to edit the "Max launch range" and "Seeker range" entries in the .ini file. Make sure they match to make things easier. Also, there is "missile duration" to consider. you have to make sure the missile won't "finish" before the max range is aquired.

 

:good:

 

Requires some testing to get it right but most important for any long range missile.

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As my actual doubt is also about MIssile parameters, I decided to post it here (and dig this one up) instead of creating threads at will.

 

If i'm not mistaken I remember reading somewhere, that: in SF 2 the heat seeker missiles lock will be on the target closest to the center of aircraft boresight line (when existing multiple targets within the missile FOV and in range).

 

So I've been experimenting with the Malaysian MiG-29 N and the R-74 Archer air-to-air missile, which can be fired on targets at high off-boresight angles.

 

My doubts are :

1 - sometimes I managed to designate the target most off-boresight rather than the target closest to center line of aircraft ?

2 - it doesn't always work, but does using " T " letter "choose closest air target" have some effect ?

3 - does "F4" padlock as anything to do with it ?

 

Check the images below and the missile trail showing it follows the target off-boresight.

post-80702-0-47661700-1445565374_thumb.jpg

post-80702-0-02115600-1445565390_thumb.jpg

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Padlocking does wonders in most cases as far as off-boresight shooting and the seeker does "sense" to a degree (though not a reflection of a HMS, or JHMCS, etc.) along with the target, so I assume that the game slews it anyway in some form or fashion. But otherwise I have done a lot of off-boresight shots with padlock and 8 out of 10 times I've gotten solid kills.  In that case if the missile still tracks and kills, then it's good to go. T does work and in conjunction with padlock helps set up your shot (given your seeker restriction) for an off-boresight kill. Best thing is to practice with your chosen missile. The 9X, and the IRIS-T, Python-5, are really good missiles to employ in the WVR fight while the Russian ones? Eh, yeah, you get what you get.

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Padlocking does wonders in most cases as far as off-boresight shooting and the seeker does "sense" to a degree (though not a reflection of a HMS, or JHMCS, etc.) along with the target, so I assume that the game slews it anyway in some form or fashion. But otherwise I have done a lot of off-boresight shots with padlock and 8 out of 10 times I've gotten solid kills.  In that case if the missile still tracks and kills, then it's good to go. T does work and in conjunction with padlock helps set up your shot (given your seeker restriction) for an off-boresight kill. Best thing is to practice with your chosen missile. The 9X, and the IRIS-T, Python-5, are really good missiles to employ in the WVR fight while the Russian ones? Eh, yeah, you get what you get.

 

Very good Eric! For me, a jet fighter; avionics; weapons sighting systems; enthusiast, this post pretty much said it all.

 

I was convinced that "T" (red box) designation had more importance to designate the target, than the padlock... but I didn't experiment much yet.

 

Indeed you guessed my next question - the padlock feature and a somewhat similar use as HMS or JHMCS.

For me, just the capability to selecting targets / locking missiles besides the HUD or Radar system (if the weapon allows it), reflects more "reality" factor to the sim - very cool feature expecially in this "light sim".

 

So, the Russian missiles?

Remember that after the 2 Germanys reunited, the R-73 Archer was seen as a rude wake-up call to western military. (I read that somewhere.)   :biggrin:

 

Do we have Python-5 missile in SF2 ?

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Hello  KJakker,

 

Thank you for the Python missiles!

Now I must assign them to an aircraft and customize some LOD file, right ?

 

I suppose they can go to Israelli F-15 or F-16.

Edited by Boresight

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Very good Eric! For me, a jet fighter; avionics; weapons sighting systems; enthusiast, this post pretty much said it all.

 

I was convinced that "T" (red box) designation had more importance to designate the target, than the padlock... but I didn't experiment much yet.

 

Indeed you guessed my next question - the padlock feature and a somewhat similar use as HMS or JHMCS.

For me, just the capability to selecting targets / locking missiles besides the HUD or Radar system (if the weapon allows it), reflects more "reality" factor to the sim - very cool feature expecially in this "light sim".

 

So, the Russian missiles?

Remember that after the 2 Germanys reunited, the R-73 Archer was seen as a rude wake-up call to western military. (I read that somewhere.)   :biggrin:

 

Do we have Python-5 missile in SF2 ?

 

As maybe it did but I don't really care about real world performance when we're talking about game performance. Various modders have done a good job modeling the R-73/74 but I don't have much confidence in them, compared to the ones I listed. Nothing against the particular modders per se, but overall I haven't been too sure about them, and even shooting boresight doesn't always work, too easy fooled by flares, etc.

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I have been playing around with the Polish Mig-29 doing some Baltic air policing lol. But I to am not overly happy with the in game performance of the R-73 so I have been doing some research on how well it actually preformed. From what I have found it should preform better than the AIM-9L/M (wider FOV etc) and I have found a few references stating the west didn't have anything to match it until the Python 4 was developed. So in terms of SF2 the data.ini needs to be slightly changed to reflect slightly better performance figures than the AIM-9M and equal to the Python 4 (available in one of the Team Viper Israeli packs).

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Don't want to create new topic so I continue on here. There are many parameters which affect missiles flight to the target. Specifically I want to make some older SAMs to launch and guide missiles below 100m. I need to clarify the following:

 

1. "Accuracy" - Does this parameter affect the missile's performance or it just represents an average single shot kill probability?

 

2. "Launch Reliability / Lock On Chance" - Not really sure how these work. Have something to do with loosing track after launch?

 

3. "Seeker FOV" - I guess this is more important for IR guided missiles. Wider FOV will make IR launches more reliable against targets flying away from boresight. However in which way affects the radar guided SAMs?

 

4. "Seeker Gimble Limit" - ???

 

5. "Track Rate" - The maximum turn rate in which the missile seeker can track the target? Low track rate means a manueverable target can make seeker loose track?

 

6. High fire control radar frequencies (track and missile guidance) ensure higher single shot kill probability?

 

7. In order to engage a target flying very low (<100m) search and track strength of the fire control radar should have high values?

 

8. After some testing I have seen that when increasing the fuzing distance the missile can hit the target but not destroy it. Lower values ensure almost 100% destruction. But how actually works? 

 

 

Sorry to ask too much.

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Hello tiopilotos,

 

Answers of what I think it is, in the quote.

 

Don't want to create new topic so I continue on here. There are many parameters which affect missiles flight to the target. Specifically I want to make some older SAMs to launch and guide missiles below 100m. I need to clarify the following:

 

1. "Accuracy" - Does this parameter affect the missile's performance or it just represents an average single shot kill probability?

 

2. "Launch Reliability / Lock On Chance" - Not really sure how these work. Have something to do with loosing track after launch?

I believe it refers to "missfire" probability.

Example: Launch Reliability of 80 (in percentage), for the AIM-54A Phoenix missile:

 

If you shot 5 (five) of these missiles, right after launching from the AC, 1 (one) of them may actually start falling from the sky, without tracking the target.

Only 4 (four) of them will actualy start tracking the target (doesn't mean they can all hit.)

 

3. "Seeker FOV" - I guess this is more important for IR guided missiles. Wider FOV will make IR launches more reliable against targets flying away from boresight. However in which way affects the radar guided SAMs?

 

4. "Seeker Gimble Limit" - ???

Maximum space / angular field of view (of the cone), from around boresight for that seeker / missile.

 

5. "Track Rate" - The maximum turn rate in which the missile seeker can track the target? Low track rate means a manueverable target can make seeker loose track?

Yes and yes. Exactly what Fubar512 said on post #4 above.

 

6. High fire control radar frequencies (track and missile guidance) ensure higher single shot kill probability?

 

7. In order to engage a target flying very low (<100m) search and track strength of the fire control radar should have high values?

 

8. After some testing I have seen that when increasing the fuzing distance the missile can hit the target but not destroy it. Lower values ensure almost 100% destruction. But how actually works? 

In real life, by lowering the fuzing distance values, you're "teeling" the missile to explode only when very near the target, hence its warhead can do more damage.

(Althoug it has its drawbacks, i.e. if the missile doesn't manage to get much near the target, it may not explode.)

 

 

Sorry to ask too much.

Edited by Boresight

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Correction:

 

4. "Seeker Gimble Limit" - ???

 

Maximum angular field of view, from the boresight to each side, for that seeker / missile.

 

For ex. R-73 Archer missile, Gimbal Limit of 60º  :

Its seeker can only see the target within a 60 degree angle around its boresight line - for each side of its nose, up and down..

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"I actually want to edit the maximum effective range of the A-A missiles. 

Maximum launch range is the longest distance in which a missile can be launched from an aircraft, right? "

 

In reality this parameter had some variables. More lower we fly, more reduced is the range of the missile, and viceversa at high altitude with the range went to the maximum with more live of the burning of the missile engine 

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No it doesn't. the best you can do is padlock and fire off boresight, which works for missiles like the 9X and I'm sure the R-73

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