How good is the simulation of the guns in SF/WoX games?

[+WhiteBoySamurai]

the thing I consider worth further checking is bullets speed, seems a bit too slow for me, but it's just my "feel" gotten from other sims

 

I remember reading somewhere that bullets in TW lose velocity much more quickly than in real life. This also notoriously affects artillery and naval guns so that they don't have nearly the effective range that they should. Maybe the rounds don't have drag coefficients modelled, so it's like they have flat heads or something. I wonder if there's a way to fix that?

 

Don't disable LCOS unless you want to handicap yourself. If you think it's "pointless" then you're either not using it optimally (i.e. no radar lock on the bandit) or you're using a third-party aircraft that doesn't have matching gun aim angles and HUD boresight angles (easily diagnosed and fixed). With LCOS you don't need to waste ammo on spray-n-pray or guesstimation, just keep the little dot on the bad guy (which is still a challenge) and squeeze the trigger briefly.

 

If all else fails, no matter what gunsight you're using, for best results just get close enough that the bandit fills your HUD.

[+Stary]

I remember reading somewhere that bullets in TW lose velocity much more quickly than in real life.

 

that's also my feeling WBS, as compared to other sims, IL2 family and SDOE the most, it's very visible on some target-2-player views, drop is ok but the drag... maybe it's the bullets size defined is somewhat porky? It's interesting how completely different in appearance is stationary Vulcan setup from ODS2 for example

[macelena]

Glad to see im not the only only to cage the gunsight. A couple of fighters wich really help with it are the Crusader and Mirage3s, you can have the A-A sight for a locked, stable aircraft long shot, and still fixed HUD references for "PaveThumb Mk1 instinctive fire control"

[+Gr.Viper]

With LCOS you don't need to waste ammo on spray-n-pray or guesstimation, just keep the little dot on the bad guy (which is still a challenge) and squeeze the trigger briefly.

Tried multimple times with stock F-4E. The calculated poit simply lies. Going by a solid radar lock gives me a 100% chance of undershooting a target flying same bearing, speed and altitude just a little ahead of me.

[Spinners]

Stick some chewing-gum in the slap-bang centre of your monitor...

[+Stary]

heh... reminds me of my idea from yeeears back to paint a dot on the monitor -in one of flightsims at that time I had to completely switch cockpit off to be able to run it with any acceptable framerate... can't recollect which one sadly, ~1998-2000 era

[Do335]

utter BS... every every single bullet has it's own impact point maestro... try harder

 

1 "angle" (what is that huh?) to 50 bullets? You play on easy or something..?

 

pffft i'm just more observative on this matter. fire up the game and see for yerself. numbers are figures of speech only or do you have a hard time understanding that as well. i play on hard ofc. you might be using a different exe than mine tho

Edited September 30, 2012 by Do335

[+Stary]

nope, sorry but your observations are invalid, every single bullet has own trajectory and impact point calculated, trust me, doing custom impact effects for the series since 2006 I had alot of occasions to verify this

[+WhiteBoySamurai]

Tried multimple times with stock F-4E. The calculated poit simply lies. Going by a solid radar lock gives me a 100% chance of undershooting a target flying same bearing, speed and altitude just a little ahead of me.

Just tried it on the F-4 and I see what you're saying-- it seems like the bullets are going a fraction of a degree under the aim point. It could be the drop-off I mentioned, or maybe something else.

 

Have you tried the same with the stock F-14 or F-16? Those and third-party modern aircraft with LCOS seem to have truer aim to me. It could be my imagination, or maybe some difference between Avionics60 and Avioncs70.

 

heh... reminds me of my idea from yeeears back to paint a dot on the monitor -in one of flightsims at that time I had to completely switch cockpit off to be able to run it with any acceptable framerate... can't recollect which one sadly, ~1998-2000 era

 

Heh, didn't people used to do that for certain first-person shooters too? Like to shoot from the hip with sniper rifles or some such craziness?

[+Fubar512]

LCOS is dead on....if the target never maneuvers, that is. I just leave the sight in LCOS or A2A mode, and employ seat of the pants deflection.

[thodouras95]

Tried multimple times with stock F-4E. The calculated poit simply lies. Going by a solid radar lock gives me a 100% chance of undershooting a target flying same bearing, speed and altitude just a little ahead of me.

 

I think that this is true.Whenever I am about to gun down Badgers in SF2I, I always set my gunsight to A2G.Else, I'll get closer than I have to, and will probably see my wing fly away from the rest of the plane...

 

Stick some chewing-gum in the slap-bang centre of your monitor...

 

Splendid idea.Seriously :P

[+Gr.Viper]

Splendid idea.Seriously :P

Nah, what you need is a piece of string tied around the display, so that it forms a cross dead in the centre. It worked a century ago, why not now...

[PraetorH]

see, the gyro, LCOS, CCIP all have flaws, it's known issue with slight miscalculations on these, I think TK once said it's made this way on purpose for the "fun", have to get used to...

 

So there is really no way of getting an accurate projection?

Sad. While I think gun kills are way to easy, the better way of making them more challenging would be reducing the accuracy of the guns and the effect of the bullets. I always feel like firing phasers.

It just kills immersion to put the pipper right on target, having everything already and ready - just to see the laserlike stream of bullets going right under the target.

[+Stary]

spray and pray

[+Gr.Viper]

spray and pray

Yeah, that's the way to fly those Skyhawks with ghetto-rigged ECM and 20 rounds per gun.

[+Stary]

heh nitpicker... you do kill 10 MiGs per sortie in those Skyhawks, right? ;)

[+Fubar512]

The F-86s in the Korea WIP work just fine, their lead-computing sights are spot on, even at high deflection angles.

[Toryu]

It just kills immersion to put the pipper right on target, having everything already and ready - just to see the laserlike stream of bullets going right under the target.

 

 

If you look at israeli guncam-footage, this is excatly what happens.

Put the LCOS (radar-guided) pipper on the enemy squeeze the trigger and watch a second sun rising...

Putting one or two 30mm rounds through a MiG-21 really lights up the sky.

 

Interestingly, the israelis needed to fix the flawed MIIIC-gunsight first - the initial LCOS was a POS and would let you hit anythng but what you put the crosshairs on...

Edited October 1, 2012 by Toryu

[Slartibartfast]

As I generally fly attack jets... ie the A-4E its fun with a locked gunsight... learn how to shoot without electrics must admit with the F-4 I lock the gunsight saying that most of the non-TW jets are pretty accurate for gunfighting set on the hard setting though there are times I empty the magazine and all I kill is sky even on perfect locks annoying sometimes it is...

[+JediMaster]

I usually do the "shoot in front of them and let them fly into your bullets" thing. Wastes a bit of ammo, but it's more effective.

[future_tuskegee_airman]

I have no issues with the gun when flying Isreali F-4s, because I use the Isreali way of shooting down aircraft--3 to 6 seconds slight lead then spray.There have been times in SF2V that while in a Phantom I "sprayed and prayed" but I was really proficient knocking MiGs in a 'Sader. Of course watching Dogfights Seasons 1 and 2 helped me develop and implement the right tactics. Along with Ospreys Aircraft of the Aces Series.

[+CrazyhorseB34]

_{Read "Dicta Boelke".}

[Z09SS]

_{Read "Dicta Boelke".}

 

Boelcke, wie Schwermetall, muss herein gelesen werden der ursprüngliche Deutsche zum Haben den richtigen Effekt.

 

Especially if you don't actually speak German and use a crappy translation app that makes native speaker's teeth itch.