Russian Fighter Jet Buzzed U.S. Ship: Officials

[Stratos 3,191]

I agree with Typhoid here. EU and the US are trying to create a WALL of friendly countries surronding Russia, those movements creates in Russia the need to react and protect its interests and prestige. I think is basic geopolitics here. Just imagine Mexico receiving tons of economical help from Russia, then weapons and finally Russian soldiers, planes and ships. Will the US let that happen?

 

BTW remember that those "cool and democratic" Ukrainians, just organized a "Coup d'état" against a democtatically elected president (even If that guy was bad for the country, there are new votations planed in some months, couldn't those guys just wait and vote for another?). My fears are that the EU and others are behind that.

[Dave63 13]

As for the topic at hand honestly I do not see the difference between this incident and these...

 

 

The Cold War has been over for 30 years. That's the difference.

[+Typhoid 231]

The Cold War has been over for 30 years. That's the difference.

 

and in that time, the Russians have continued to fly exercise runs with strategic assets against North America, have continued to overfly our ships at sea (and we have continued to overfly theirs), the Russians have "manuevered aggessively" against US, NATO and allied forces, and the Russians have been expanding their empire and spheres of influence for years, etc., etc., etc.

 

They overflew one of our carriers with a full flight of Fencers not too many years ago. 

 

And, of course, we've both maintained alert forces capable of turning the northern hemisphere into a radioactive wasteland inside of 35 minutes.

 

nothing ever really changed. 

Edited April 16, 2014 by Typhoid

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Your world view is so ancient you probably still wear "Member's Only" jackets.

 

Personal attacks? Come on Hannity, I know you got more than that.

Edited April 16, 2014 by CrazyhorseB34

[+Gepard 11,295]

That Russian aircrew is lucky they arent a smoking hole in the sky. The last thing you want to mess with is a guided missile destroyer that is a basically waterborne SAM porcupine. 

 

I would not bet on it. If the 24 is activating their jammers, the us fireguidance system is blind. This has proven by F-4ICE which carried soviet SPS-141 jammer pods during a lot of training exercises near Deciomomannu in the last years. It was used to simulate anti ship missile attacks which were covered by jamming fighterbombers. In nearly no case the attacked ships were able to lock on the intruding Phantoms. The SPS-141 proofed as very capable.

And the Su-24 has the SPS-141 jammer on board.

 

 

The whole western reaction on Putins Ukraine thing is very weak. Its like the barking of a West Highland Terrier, nothing what a russian baer is worry.

The best reaction would be to send a US Carrier group for friendship trail into the Baltic. Visit Kiel, Gdansk, Riga and Tallin and Kolya will understand the message.

Then Germany and France should send one Battallion of the German French Brigade to the baltic states. One company to Estonia, one to Latvia, one to Lithuania. That would be enough. No barking, only showing the teeth.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Gepard

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I do agree with my german neighbour. 

[+Erik 1,812]

I would not bet on it. If the 24 is activating their jammers, the us fireguidance system is blind.

 

Maybe 20 years ago. Active jamming only changes the acquisition type from passive to active. The same smoking hole ensues. 

[+Typhoid 231]

The whole western reaction on Putins Ukraine thing is very weak. Its like the barking of a West Highland Terrier, nothing what a russian baer is worry.

The best reaction would be to send a US Carrier group for friendship trail into the Baltic. Visit Kiel, Gdansk, Riga and Tallin and Kolya will understand the message.

Then Germany and France should send one Battallion of the German French Brigade to the baltic states. One company to Estonia, one to Latvia, one to Lithuania. That would be enough. No barking, only showing the teeth.

 

agree.  Some forces into Poland and the Balkan states right away.  Also put a NATO force into Western Ukraine (with Ukranian permission of course) to put that trip wire into place. 

 

in the entire history of the Cold War, neither side ever crossed a tripwire. 

 

(KAL-007 being the exception that proved the rule)

[+Typhoid 231]

Ok, can we stop the trip down memory lane yet?

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/17/kerry-jews-in-ukrainian-city-told-to-register/

 

this is particularly ironic since the Putin propaganda machine has been accusing the Ukranian government of such, and now it turns out to be the pro-Russian antisemites themselves.

 

I don't think any sentient person really wants to re-live where this is going.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Typhoid

[+Dave 2,322]

Gepard, the jammers on the Su-24 are not going to keep it from getting blown out of the sky. The Aegis system is almost impossible to jam. Its multi-mode system specifically hops and re targets based on the type of jamming and intensity of the jamming. I'm surprised the Russians even had an SU-24 in flying condition. 

Oh and finally everyone debate the topic please not each other. 

[+Dave 2,322]

You guys make it hard on me sometimes. I have friends from both ends of the political spectrum, but guess what? I do not rate my friends by the politics they keep. I could care less actually.  So can we please keep it civil. 

[thodouras95 25]

hehe, yeah and the us never lies^^ golf of tonkin, WMD´s in iraq,...... the list goes on. me thinks same sh*t different hemisphere.

no right the US isnt annexing Iraq or other countries they bombed. what the mostly US do is even worse.

bring democratic revolutions with bombs. burning the country to the ground and go home with leaving it even more worse as it was before.

if you are playing worlds police force do it right and do the whole job. and dont blame countries who do the same.

democratic revolution with bombs worked only once. germany 1945.

 

for georgia conflict: the us is doing police actions for more than 50years world wide. and if russia/china say´s no in the security council they do it anyway.

but than the US complains if someone else (in this case russia) do excactly the same thing. why is the US getting away with it.?!?! especially with the unlawful War against Iraq in 2003.

as far as i know no one was sentenced for it. why has anybody else accept responsibility for there action in Den Haag but the USA didn´t have to. i dont get it!

i mean come on "they have WMD!" sometimes later "uups the didnt have WMD´s......sry our bad" and thats it?!

 

it´s like  you kill your neighbor because he "killed" your wife, and than "ups, sry forgot that my wife visited her mother, my bad."

 

EDIT: dont get me wrong, i dont hate the US in general or so, but me thinks that some citizen there should wake up and question the stuff you got served by your politicans and media.

i also did not say the putin is a white knight, but he is also not the black knight.

 

EDIT2: but we got of track. sry for that

 

Para 1: I don't think Russia is the best example of a world police at the moment.In fact, I'd say they are the ones causing the need for an intervention :)

 

EDIT #1: Speaking of stuff being served by the media, Putin's propaganda machine runs like clockwork.

 

But yea you're right, we kinda went off topic.But I have no comment on the original topic :\

[+Erik 1,812]

You guys make it hard on me sometimes. I have friends from both ends of the political spectrum, but guess what? I do not rate my friends by the politics they keep. I could care less actually.  So can we please keep it civil. 

 

Political discussions get moved anyway so I can't imagine this getting political in the pub. 

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

I just watched FAUX NEWS. The frat boy idiot they had reporting from Donetsk described it as a battlefield....... Uh no it is not.

 

He also claimed that Russians armed with baseball bats are guarding government buildings in Donetsk. Baseball bats? Where in the fuck in Ukraine can someone buy a baseball bat? The footage showed a drunk guy with a hard hat and a rake handle.

 

The idiot also claimed that "Russian MiGs" are patrolling the airspace over Donetsk. That also is a lie. They showed footage of Ukranian jets not Russian. (Blue and yellow markings means not Russian). If Russian VVS jets are patrolling Dontesk then that is a formal breach of Ukraine's borders. But it did not happen. It is lies. From Fox.

 

THE COLD WAR IS OVER.

 

But the people who watch Fox or RT do not know that. Because those media outlets sole purpose is to push ideology not facts. So if you watch and hang on every breath that comes out of Fox you probably do live in a bubble. You also probably think Cliven Bundy is a hero and not a criminal like he is.

 

To move NATO troops into Western Ukraine would be one of the stupidest things NATO could do. It would only give Putin the green light to move "real" Russian soldiers into western and southern Ukraine.

 

What would be the point of moving NATO brigades to the Baltic? None. The Baltic is not the problem. A chess move that silly would only force Putin to do more ridiculous things.BTW two weeks ago we did send four more F-15C's to the Baltic air police mission......

 

Putin is no fool. He knows the West cannot do anything and will not unless a NATO MEMBER STATE is invaded. No NATO members states have been invaded. If a NATO member is invaded we will have instant WW3. As we should because that is why NATO exists. ( I have 3 NATO medals so what do I know?)

 

Russia is the WORLD'S second largest exporter of oil.(Saudi Arabia, Russia, then UAE) Oil is a commodity traded in US Dollars (The world's most valuable and stable currency) on the world market.( shade tree conservatives really need to study macro economics) To impose an oil embargo or oil sanctions on Russia would in effect completely throw the world's energy market into crisis. That temporary inconvenience is a lot better than WW3, right?

 

So what do you do? Cooler heads my friends. This is the precise reason people like John Bolton should not be our UN Ambassador.

 

I fully support the actions of the President of the United States Barak Hussein Obama on the issue of Ukraine.

 

Also if Ukranian Paratroopers give their rifle bolts to "militia" and let them hot dog their BMD's, like happened yesterday, if they do not have enough fucking guts to defend their own country then do not expect my Son to give his life for people too cowardly to defend their own

nation. (sound familiar... ARVN,NIA,ANA)

 

My wife works with a woman from Ukraine. Her opinion is she really does not care one way or the other.

 

The only way the US military will be actively involved in this is if a NATO member is invaded and like I said before Putin is not stupid.

Let them sort it out. If Ukranians do not want to be Ukranians anymore then who fucking cares.

 

I heard the USS Donald Cook watched the Su-24's take off and they had the "death ray" on them the whole time. Funny the USS Donald Cooks mission in the Black Sea is part of the missile defense shield. So, whatever. Reagan is dead.

 

I think the only fully functioning SPS-141's in the world are at Nellis! Ha!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Baltic states are not the problem, yet.

But they are obviously on Putin's to do list. Remember the 2007 or 2008 massive hacking coming from Russia against Estonia's electronic infrastructures? Sounds like a rehersal. 

There is sizable russian minorities in these three states, dating back from the soviet era. 

And that's Putin's tactic: 

1/ I want to restore Russia's greatness;
2/ Find some "russian" minority or majority outside the borders;

3/ Stir some unrest and use special units to have so-called self-defense militias pop up;

4/ Intervene, watch the reaction of western powers, annex.

Rince and repeat.

 

What we showed, what we show now is only perceived as weakness. And weak we are indeed. Politicaly, moraly and military. I am not even sure we would intervene if Russia was to molest a Baltic State. 
Hell, we might again threaten them with "sanctions".

I am not calling for war, of course. But I am calling for a show of will and of force. That's enough to draw a line in the sand for next time.
 

[+Gepard 11,295]

Maybe 20 years ago. Active jamming only changes the acquisition type from passive to active. The same smoking hole ensues. 

 

No the last of this training exercises was in 2012, that means 2 years ago. And SPS-141 was successfull. The attacked shipes were not able to lock on the incoming planes. Only after the Phantoms had passed the ships the firecontrol system was able to lock on. But in real life combat it would have been to late.

Dont underestimate the enemy.

[Stratos 3,191]

As Crazyhorse says, what in the world we have to win in Ukraine? Nothing, and what we can lose? A LOT!

[+Dave 2,322]

No the last of this training exercises was in 2012, that means 2 years ago. And SPS-141 was successfull. The attacked shipes were not able to lock on the incoming planes. Only after the Phantoms had passed the ships the firecontrol system was able to lock on. But in real life combat it would have been to late.

Dont underestimate the enemy.

Well those ships weren't Aegis class DDGs either. No SPS - 141 is going to shut down one of those. 

[+Brain32 265]

I really don't want to go into deep politics here but truth is that US ship was in the Black Sea so Russian aircraft came to say hello. What happens when Russian ship moves around the Gulf of Mexico? USN/USAF/ANG no say hello?

 

Anyway like I said I don't want to go into politics but I do want to go in the way media people make their money these days, every freakin thing has to be a sensation with 24h coverage, analysis, panels, 3d presentations...I mean geez stuff like that will ALWAYS happen and it's common, I bet Russian and NATO/US planes also still meet in the sky regularly, just hey pssst don't tell that to CNN as all hell will brake loose.

 

I mean next thing I wait to happen is:

"BREAKING NEWS!!!" We interrupt this program to let you know...that if you buy BeaverMuncher3000 now you get ButtHumper 2250 completely free + special offer - a set of not so sharp knives that really look sharp!!!

Now dial 0800-I-LIKE-MY-BEAVERS-MUNCHED and don't miss this special offer.

NEXT!

A panel of Beaver munching experts discusses the topic and provides an in-depth ANALysis of the product with special holographic 3D presentations and effects...

[+Erik 1,812]

No the last of this training exercises was in 2012, that means 2 years ago. And SPS-141 was successfull. The attacked shipes were not able to lock on the incoming planes. Only after the Phantoms had passed the ships the firecontrol system was able to lock on. But in real life combat it would have been to late.

Dont underestimate the enemy.

 

:: walks away slowly ::    

[JediMaster 451]

I really don't want to go into deep politics here but truth is that US ship was in the Black Sea so Russian aircraft came to say hello. What happens when Russian ship moves around the Gulf of Mexico? USN/USAF/ANG no say hello?

 

Anyway like I said I don't want to go into politics but I do want to go in the way media people make their money these days, every freakin thing has to be a sensation with 24h coverage, analysis, panels, 3d presentations...I mean geez stuff like that will ALWAYS happen and it's common, I bet Russian and NATO/US planes also still meet in the sky regularly, just hey pssst don't tell that to CNN as all hell will brake loose.

 

I mean next thing I wait to happen is:

"BREAKING NEWS!!!" We interrupt this program to let you know...that if you buy BeaverMuncher3000 now you get ButtHumper 2250 completely free + special offer - a set of not so sharp knives that really look sharp!!!

Now dial 0800-I-LIKE-MY-BEAVERS-MUNCHED and don't miss this special offer.

NEXT!

A panel of Beaver munching experts discusses the topic and provides an in-depth ANALysis of the product with special holographic 3D presentations and effects...

 

Are you ANTI Beaver??!?! You are a traitor to your nation, then!!!!11111111111111

[von Baur 54]

Maybe that's the problem, here. Putin's tired of Ukraine having all the good beavers.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

As Crazyhorse says, what in the world we have to win in Ukraine? Nothing, and what we can lose? A LOT!

Nothing in international politics is only about the topic at hand. It's far greater than Ukraine.

Ukraine is lost, it was a strong probability since Crimea, it's obvious since tuesday and its ridiculous attempt to fight back. When your own army does not respond, you are doomed. 

 

Still. 

It's not about war, or Crimea, or eastern Ukraine. It's about sending messages. The whole world is watching, and the whole world is seeing the western powers being humiliated two time in a row. 

Without a single show of force. I don't think Peking or Teheran missed that. That's a huge and massive prestige blow. And prestige do counts in international politics, as well as fear and credibility. 

Putin will do it again and might deal an even worse humiliation in the baltic states.

Other will try their own cards elsewhere in the world, we are now seen as what we are: weak. 

[von Baur 54]

Palpatine:

Japan made the mistake of confusing a desire not to fight for weakness and an unwillingness to fight. And they paid for it.

 

 

 

Take a look at a narrative of what's been going on. First replace the word "Putin" with the word "Hitler". Then replace "Russia" with Germany". Then replace "Crimea" and "Eastern Ukraine" with ""Austria", "Sudetenland", "Czechoslovakia", and "Rhineland" and what do you have?

 

 

A history lesson!

[macelena 1,070]

The precedent to be set is unvaluable, however, getting a bloodshed, even if limited to Ukraine and Russia, would mean only to harm innocent people (even the combattants) while the guys who are to blame assume those casualties as long as they serve their purpose. People pushing their personal agendas into thier country´s policies are guilty, even if their population somehow support them.

 

I would say to look at those issues with a criminalistic point of view. Who is profiting, who has the means and opportunity to do the harm intended...and counter it. You can´t deter a bad guy by killing the servicemembers they use as expendable henchmen, you have to hit them where it hurts and disable the original purpose of their misdemeanor. If you have a country being invaded for, in example, using it´s sea access, block that access. If some guy fucks around to get reelected, strike the people who they work for and pay for their campaigns.

 

But if we keep striking against the state wich may be not so much of a natural enemy, or at least not as hostile, instead of the corrupt element wich turn their policies against the interests we are to defend, we can expect to be played with, using our rules to forecast our response. 

 

Just to prove i´m able to apply this regardless to the "side": If i was Saddam Hussein when Desert Fox, i would have got Monica Lewinsky vanished before, say, answer with a 9-11. The former would have looked awkward as crap, while the later would have meant anything short of nuking Baghdad.