russian victory parade 2014

[+Gepard 11,304]

The 2014 Moscow Victory Parade (russian language)

Interesting points:
some marching units had new mods of AK-74M guns
leading motorized formations showed the flag of the Crimea and Sevastopol
vehicles had St Georgs bagde stripes
all T-90A with welded turret
a lot of mobile SAM Buk-M,Kub-M2, Pantsir, S-300, Chrysantema
helicopters Mi-26, Mi-8, Ka-52, Mi-28, Mi-35
planes AN-22, AN-124, A-50 Mainstay, IL-76, MiG-29SMT, MiG-31, Su-24M, Su-34, IL-78 and Tu-160 air refuel sim,
Tu-95, Tu-22M3,  Su-27, MiG-29, Su-25

motorized vehicles starts at 50:10
aviation parade starts at 1:02:35
 

[Derk 265]

Hm...

[Snailman 517]

http://vk.com/video-15957012_168664772?list=6dd4299ae0f2316a62

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-2q0Wxc5rs

[+russouk2004 6,958]

victory?...over ukraine?...hmmm try the west?  no chance...good vids tho..

[+Gepard 11,304]

victory?...over ukraine?...hmmm try the west?  no chance...good vids tho..

 

May 9. 1945. Victory day. In all former states of the Soviet Union the highest celebration day.

Has nothing to do with the Ukraine thing.

 

Of course it was a propaganda show, but other military parades are similar. On July 14. the french celebrate their annual big parade.

[MigBuster 2,884]

On July 14. the french celebrate their annual big parade.

 

Is this celebrating a few thousand years of French Girls?

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Oh my, take them! I'll trade french girls for italian or belgian anytime. 

 

July 14 isn't Bastille day, it's Federation day, in 1790.

 

BTW, there are also parades in Belgium, in Italy and I guess in Spain. 

[Derk 265]

Hm... again. And what an incredibly bombastic a..hole commenting on the flypast.....

Liked the mixed Fulcrum-Flanker formation though.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Derk

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Nice. Wush I was there.

 

from United States

 

 

Here is Wikipedia on Moscow Victory Parade 1945 ... 

~> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Victory_Parade_of_1945

 

Gep, or someone, Putin was down in the crowd during the parade, is that normal now? In the old parades, you always saw Stalin, Kruchev...(sp?) lol, etc.. standing on the Kremlin Wall, waving and clapping. Stalin was the scary one with that limpy hand wave ... his wimpy clapping was even more scary, cos you knew when Stalin waved and/or clapped, somebody was going to get shot. Its nice to see something different. And, its *nice* to see Russia freed from not just Nazi occupation, but freed from Communist occupation as well.

[+Gepard 11,304]

Since a couple of years the place of the russian president is not anymore on the tribune of the Lenin mausoleum. But i dont know, wheter Putin had broken with the communist tradition of standing on the Lenin mausoleum .or wheter it was Yelzin already.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Good to hear. I watched the vid mostly to see where Putin watched the parade from. I was thinking, I couldn't picture him way up there behind all that concrete like the old commies.  Thanks.

[von Baur 54]

Well, thank God the Soviet Union was there to defeat the Nazis. All by themselves. Without any help. From anyone. At all.

 

To be fair, they were the only ones actively fighting Germany from the start of Operation Barbarosa until Britain (and the Commonwealth countries) and the US opened the second front with the invasion of Normandy on June 6, 1944...

 

Unless you include the North Africa campaign, which occupied German forces starting four months before Hitler showed his true colors and attacked the previously complacent USSR. I'm sure the manpower and materiels spent there wouldn't have made one bit of difference had it been available on the Eastern Front. After all, German forces didn't get that close to Moscow, or the oil reserves or anything else important.

 

Or if you don't count the invasions of Sicily and then the Italian mainland by Britain and the US shortly after defeating the Afrika Corps.

 

Or the bombing campaign started by the RAF and then joined by the USAAC in 1942 and continued through VE Day. Let's ignore the fact that British and American airmen were fighting and dieing above German soil years before the first Soviet boot ever touched it. I wonder what the effect would have been of making all the airpower and air-defence capability used to combat that available against the Soviet Union.

 

So by my count, Normandy actually represented the fourth front. But I bet that didn't get mentioned once in the speeches.

 

And how much help did the Russians provide in the Pacific? Before the atomic bomb decimated Hiroshima, that is.

 

Yeah, thank God for the Soviet Union.

 

 

One other thing. I don't remember seeing rows of tanks, trucks, missles, etc at Veterans' Day Parades here in the States. There's the occassional flyover, sure, but not the kind of show-of-force that Russia has indulged in for the past three quarters of a century. We celebrate the soldiers, not the machinery.

[+Dave 2,322]

von Baur do not forget the lend lease to the Russians too.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Oh, and the alliance between Soviet Union and Germany. 

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

The recent Russian Victory Parade simply demonstrates that there is as ever a need for diplomacy. A major conflict with the western powers would be devastating for both them and us.  

[+Gepard 11,304]

von Baur do not forget the lend lease to the Russians too.

 

Exactly. The delivery of weapons was not as important, thats true. But the delivery of food, ammo, fuel and trucks was essential.

A T-34 was superior to the Sherman, the Schpagin 41 MPi was much better then the M-1 Garant, but without food you cant fight, without ammo you cant shoot and without fuel you cant drive. And this "soft" powers were the important help from the USA.

[Snailman 517]

Oh, and the alliance between Soviet Union and Germany. 

 

And FDR's New Deal that made the USSR a world power out of stone age... with a Red Army stronger than all European powers alltogether...

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

And FDR's New Deal that made the USSR a world power out of stone age... with a Red Army stronger than all European powers alltogether...

 Wait... what?!

[von Baur 54]

Not buying that one, Snailman. The Red Army came within a hair's breadth and millions of human bullet catchers (Stalin's undesireables, btw...why waste a perfectly good gas chamber when you've got millions of enemy soldiers happy to kill off people you want to get rid of anyway) of falling. Hardly what I would call "stronger than all European powers combined". And without the aforementioned help they would have.

 

The Russo-German Non-agression treaty was what I was alluding to when I said "previously complacent USSR". I was going to say "previously complicit", given the alliance, but opted out of it. As for lend-lease, this was a rant that's been building every time I see a history program that mentions the west's "delay" in opening a second front and how the west "sacrificed Russian lives" by not invading sooner, and therefore primarily focussed on direct military action not supply lines. Fact...it was Russia that was late coming to the party, both against Germany and Japan. Yes, the US joined later (less than six months), but we were feeding bullets, beans and bandages to Britain while Stalin was still sitting back working out how he and Hitler would divide up Eastern Europe.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Lend Leace didn't get rolling really good till maybe 1942, after the crucial "win-lose" Moscow battle.

 

What Lend Leace did was to allow WW2 Euro to be fought and won through attrition on the Eastern Front. Most of the trucks that allowed a manuever war to Berlin were US trucks, ... also gold braid for uniforms, as the communists, after the revolution, decided military men had to wear bland uniforms. WW2 caused the commies to panic, and golden braid was a (small) part of Lend Leace.

 

Imagine the destruction of western Europe and millions of American casualties if the western allies faced a complete and undefeated German Army. Scary though that, but then 50,000 P-47Ns manufactured in 1946 would be scary on sheer scale, as the US barely begun to mobilize industry for war by 1945.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Lexx_Luthor

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

oooh wait, and radar, maybe the most important Lend Leace item for the later Cold war possibly.

[von Baur 54]

IMO, the US was the only country that had the combination of easily-accessible raw materials and established industrial strength to be victorius over the Axis Powers without significant help. The Soviet Union had the raw materials, but the emergency of WWII really got their industrial base going. Before 1942 it was little more than getting started. Great Britain had the industrial base but needed the raw materials shipped to them, leaving them vulnerable.Germany and Japan would fit into this category, as well. Had Germany defeated the USSR and been able to exploit its natural resources and the safety of its size they may have been able to force a stalemate in Europe/Africa/Western Asia, thus isolating the US until they could cross the ocean. And with the US fighting Japan (who would have received help from a victorius Germany), it's possible to likely that the Axis powers could have succeeded.

 

Bottom line, if the joint effort wasn't abolutely necessary for an Allied victory it was at least critical in keeping the war from dragging on and on and on. I don't dispute that Russia's fighting against Germany helped, and maybe made possible, victory in Europe. You could think of it as a three-legged stool...take away any one leg and it's going to be very difficult to stand on it long enough to hang a picture. But to hear the Russians tell it the US and Britain did nothing from Sept 1940 until June 1944. Which is far from the truth. And the fact is that, despite requests from the US, the USSR ignored Japan until that war was all but over. Their assistance was like adding a fifth leg to a four-legged stool, after the picture has been hung and the stool is about to be put away.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

 

 

And the fact is that, despite requests from the US, the USSR ignored Japan until that war was all but over.

 

Stalin kept to the Yalta Conference scheduled 3 months after the end of WW2 Euro. I too never new about this until a few years ago, always thinking the Soviets delayed until it was "easy" but I was wrong.

 

Soviet Invasion of Manchria::

 

 

As agreed with the Allies at the Tehran Conference (November 1943) and the Yalta Conference (February 1945), the Soviet Union entered World War II's Pacific Theater within three months of the end of the war in Europe. The invasion began on 9 August 1945, exactly three months after the German surrender on May 8 (9 May, 0:43 Moscow time).

 

~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria

 

Interestingly, the Germans begged the Japanese to attack Pac Route Lend Leace shipping, but Japan declined, to the point of going out of its way to allow USSR flagged ships to sail even to Vladivostok around southern Japan, at times. Through mis~identification, there was at least on Lend Leace ship sunk by a japanese sub, and US subs sank about half a dozen Lend Leace ships, again through mis~identification. But then US subs were far more efficient at anti~shipping than japanese subs so...

 

I assume at least one reason for the Japanese decline to help the Germans here was memory of the beating they took at the hands of Zhukov in Manchuria, and helping Germany would'nt fix the jam they got themselves into in the Pacific. Not sure.

 

Freaking amazing, and funny, article on the jam the japanese got themselves into.

 

Why Japan Really Lost The War:: http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

 

I'm thinking maybe the US *cancelled* more carriers in 1944 than Japan ever built in its history. Look at the tailoff in war production in 1944, Japan because of loss of ability, US because of loss of need. Smackdown.

hehe...the US built more aircraft carriers than Japan built carrier aircraft.  ... well ... almost.

[von Baur 54]

Yes, Stalin agreed to declare war on Japan within three months of VE and he did so...barely. But my point throughout this has been the fact that the USSR accused, and history has pretty much backed up the claim, that the US and Britain did little to nothing against Germany until D-Day when in fact that is absolutely not the case. The very suggestion ignores North Africa, Sicily, Italy and the strategic bombing campaign. OTOH Stalin delayed as long as he could possibly do so in providing any assistance to us against Japan, finally entering that theater at a point where the assistance was virtually unnecessary. No, dammit, it was unnecessary...no "virtually" about it.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

 

 

Yes, Stalin agreed to declare war on Japan within three months of VE and he did so...barely.

He did so exactly.

 

Perhaps we should wish the USSR had stayed out, then maybe no Korean War, perhaps a US Army occupied Sakahlin (sp?) island, Manchuria, etc... If I recall, there was some talk in USA by early 1945 that it would be preferable if USSR would stay out, for this very reason. However, there is the theory the Japanese surrendered quickly after the Soviet invasion, as they had pinned their last hope on Soviet mediation, and they feared Red Army occupation far more than US Army occupation. That makes ALOT of sense to me.

 

Who cares about Stalin's claims? Don't let that man make you angry. If anything it was for domestic consumption. They did minimize Lend Leace I think in their domestic propaganda. At the same time, the WW2 battlefield and casualties were found on the Eastern Front. You are not domestic Soviet...well given how our .gov is evolving not so sure. Let it go. Lose weight, less stress, feel better.