F-22 for Israel.

[Mannie 21]

Just read it on the news this morning.

 

here's the section about it in the "Jerusalem Post".

 

 

 

Hope to see it real soon flying over my head.

 

Cheers.

[kesegy 5]

if they lift the ban for israel, then they have to do the same for the brits, who are growing very impatient with the whole f-35 issue.

 

and we all know how good the brit government is at keeping classified information classified

Edited June 3, 2008 by kesegy

[MigBuster 2,884]

Cant see the F-22 being exported for the time being - US would be stupid to do so IMO.

[Stick 773]

It will happen in 5 years. The Eagle is growing old. Besides its business.

[Mannie 21]

I believe that if PM olmert will ask the president Bush for those jet fighters, there will be an OK from the president.

besides, Lockheed and the F-22 project are in a pretty bad shape because of the cutback of order from the original number of 750 to a mere 150 or so, it was reduced to. (the acquisition order by the US air force).

The American administration will be more then happy to help Lockheed sell some more planes and keep some more workers jobs alive.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Mannie

[MigBuster 2,884]

I believe that if PM olmert will ask the president Bush for those jet fighters, there will be an OK from the president.

besides, Lockheed and the F-22 project are in a pretty bad shape because of the cutback of order from the original number of 750 to a mere 150 or so, it was reduced to. (the acquisition order by the US air force).

The American administration will be more then happy to help Lockheed sell some more planes and keep some more workers jobs alive.

 

 

Surely they can do that by pushing more F-35 and F-16 sales through

[JediMaster 451]

The people looking to get F-35s (or F-22s) don't want more F-16s.

The problem with the F-35, though, is it's still so far out.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

You know, I really am surprised how there hasn't been more of a push to have developed a less capable 'export' version of the F-22. Say, one outwardly similar to the existing model so as to have a negligible on the production line, but more importantly, to keep it open. This would lower per unit production costs and thus, more funding for more units. Customers could specify which systems they would want in the event that the US (in all likelihood) vetoes use of it's current avionics package. Export customers, even with a machine that's only 75% as capable as the USAF F-22, would still be pretty happy considering that their aircraft would trounce anything that opposed it in their region. Seems to me like they've shot themselves in the foot somewhat, with this program.

[+Typhoid 231]

an export version of the F-22 would be a great idea. How they will decide what technologies to include for which partners will be a "real interesting process" to say the least.

 

We should even export it to the USN.......

 

The program has been horrendously expensive because of the fleet cut to a very un-economic production level. Expanding the airframe numbers through foreign sales will help drive down our own costs per plane as well as helping our allies. If we don't figure that out pretty soon, the foreign market will be filled with Typhoons, Rafales, Super-Flankers, etc.

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

an export version of the F-22 would be a great idea. How they will decide what technologies to include for which partners will be a "real interesting process" to say the least.

 

We should even export it to the USN.......

 

The program has been horrendously expensive because of the fleet cut to a very un-economic production level. Expanding the airframe numbers through foreign sales will help drive down our own costs per plane as well as helping our allies. If we don't figure that out pretty soon, the foreign market will be filled with Typhoons, Rafales, Super-Flankers, etc.

 

I'd substitute Typhoons for Gripens, since Typhoons really are 20th century fighters being only ready in the 21st century... it's a shame! But Gripens, Rafales, and Super-Flankers, exportwise, FTW...

[PIGHUNTA69 0]

I say we should sell the F-22s to Israel since they are our only allies in that region. Plus Israel would know how to use it to the best of its capabilities. Remember the raid on the Iraqi reactor. (hint hint)

[BUFF 8]

if they lift the ban for israel, then they have to do the same for the brits, who are growing very impatient with the whole f-35 issue.

as are many others.

F-22 won't do the job that the JSF is meant to fulfill & we are too committed to Typhoon anyway, we wouldn't/couldn't go with F-22.

and we all know how good the brit government is at keeping classified information classified

about on a par with other countries.

 

 

I'd substitute Typhoons for Gripens, since Typhoons really are 20th century fighters being only ready in the 21st century... it's a shame! But Gripens, Rafales, and Super-Flankers, exportwise, FTW...

Typhoon is more capable than Rafale & of course is a weight class above the Gripen largely I guess due to the twin engine config. (which is however a requirement for many airforces).

[Mannie 21]

If I remember correctly The US government has already given Israel a "green light" to go ahead and ask for the F-22, some time ago. something like six to eight months back.

For some reason I find it hard to believe that our PM will go all the way to Washington just to get a NO for an answer.

I have a good reason to believe that this issue have been concluded in presidents Bushes last visit to Israel just recently.

 

As for the F-16. Its a good fighter, right.

But Israel is looking at the new generation of fighters to replace the F-16's and 15's in the next two to three decades.

I don't think the F-16 can fill this role, nor can the F-15.

 

MigBuster.

 

One more thing. To keep Israels superiority in the skies for a long time, Israel MUST have both the F-22 and F-35 in its ranks.

 

(or would you prefer that Israel will keep its superiority with super flankers instead ) J/K.

 

Cheers

Edited June 3, 2008 by Mannie

[+NeverEnough 78]

Nobody has touched on the unfortunate tendency of highly sensitive U.S. technology migrating to unfriendly corners of the world after sharing with friends and allies. Think Patriot, AWACS, Lavi.......

[Guest Vlamik]

You guys don't need a stealth fighter to drop bombs on palestinians and to keep your colonies inside their territories...

[Hooah! 0]

*Cough* Tomcat *Cough*

 

More seriously, I'll bet Canada would be interested, as our CF188s are getting tired and the F-35 isn't going to fill the bill as well as we want. We need a twin engine fighter so when one fails over the arctic, we don't lose millions in aircraft parts. Also, the capabilities of the F-35 aren't what were promised when we signed for them. More and more setbacks, and more and more delays...

[pablo10692 4]

The news is calling the F-22 as " a stealth bomber ".

 

BOMBER?

[+Typhoid 231]

Nobody has touched on the unfortunate tendency of highly sensitive U.S. technology migrating to unfriendly corners of the world after sharing with friends and allies. Think Patriot, AWACS, Lavi.......

 

that is precisely the issue when I refered to "real interesting processes" to determine which capabilities would be included in an export variant. None of us (various countries involved in import/export of military technologies) has had a problem free record in this regard. Export control has developed over the years because of exported military technology sent to a trusted ally being re-exported to third parties that the original party would not have chosen to export that to. So exporting our top of the line military capabilties to even our trusted allies is always a tough process. In both directions.

 

Given the tight integration of lots of technologies into the Raptor, even identifying which technologies we would be comfortable exporting to which allies will be a real tough challenge. Being able to break a withheld capability out of an aircraft will be even tougher.

 

I really, really doubt that any export of the F-22 to Israel, or frankly anyone else, is likely in the near term. I know that both the USAF and LM are anxious to proceed with an export variant. I also know that both the USAF and LM are real nervous about how to do that and, oddly, not anxious to export our top of the line capabilities. So any export will have key systems not included.

[MigBuster 2,884]

MigBuster.

 

One more thing. To keep Israels superiority in the skies for a long time, Israel MUST have both the F-22 and F-35 in its ranks.

 

(or would you prefer that Israel will keep its superiority with super flankers instead ) J/K.

 

Cheers

 

 

Well I said for the time being - that doesnt mean that they wont export them after they have been around a while.

 

The F-15s and 16s were exported within a couple of years of them coming into US service it appears - although back then the obvious threats consisted of current Soviet hardware (aka Mig-23). Reasons why the F-22 is being held (nearly 3 years service) are not clear although one thing that is:

 

Billions spent on development - and the funds for developing future replacements may not be as forthcoming as they once were. Why should they "give away" guaranteed air superiority over any nation on the planet that easily?

 

It might be different if Iran had squadrons of stealth F-5 shakarakas (or whatever) and yes they may have S-300 SAMs alledgedly but these will be defending their nuclear facilities (maybe) and no threat to Israel at the moment

 

You might be right and end up with a few next year - in which case I will eat my hat

[Gr.Viper 131]

Just ship some real F-22 to China and in a couple of years you will have a dirt-cheap version ready.

[+Typhoid 231]

Just ship some real F-22 to China and in a couple of years you will have a dirt-cheap version ready.

 

sadly, it was a previous export from Israel to China of US technology that will likely derail any export of the F-22 to Israel now.

[BUFF 8]

Just ship some real F-22 to China and in a couple of years you will have a dirt-cheap version ready.

it would be recalled due to too much lead in the paint though ...

[Stick 773]

sadly, it was a previous export from Israel to China of US technology that will likely derail any export of the F-22 to Israel now.

 

 

C'mon its just spreading the goodness. Besides its in the interest of Balance of Power.

[+Typhoid 231]

it would be recalled due to too much lead in the paint though ...

 

good point. Might make it too heavy.....

[MigBuster 2,884]

C'mon its just spreading the goodness. Besides its in the interest of Balance of Power.

 

So does air superiority balance out power or is it more to do with economies now? Personally I think the balance of power these days is more down to nuclear weapons - look at Russia - economy aint the best - and as far as Air superiority goes they have a model of an F-22 with red stars on the wing - however they can wipe any nation they like of the planet with the press of a button.

 

 

ok back OT