dsawan Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 Looks like a similar situation with the F-4 B-D versions and Vietnam proved you need cannon against Mig's close up. Quote
the test pilot Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 Looks like a similar situation with the F-4 B-D versions and Vietnam proved you need cannon against Mig's close up. the mirage 2000D is a Mud-Moving only version. so, it won't need a gun that much Quote
+FastCargo Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 Define "that much"... Once is more than enough if you're dead because you didn't have a gun. FastCargo Quote
+christian59 Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 above ennemy area the normal flight combat of 2000D/N is 100 feet at mach 0.95 in fully automatic terrain following (+6G to -2.3 G) they work are weapon delivery only not dodfight gun are useless Quote
+allenjb42 Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 above ennemy area the normal flight combat of 2000D/N is 100 feet at mach 0.95 in fully automatic terrain following (+6G to -2.3 G) they work are weapon delivery only not dodfight gun are useless True, but wouldn't guns be useful for strafing ground targets? Quote
kct Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) Well, uh, don't argue about what the French did, considering that the 2000B is a trainer, the 2000N is a nuclear weapons delivery platform (which means what it does is to drop the nuke and RUN), and the 2000D is developed from the -N. I think dogfighting and gunfights are the last thing they had in their mind, considering that the delta design is 'not-as-well-suited' for dogfighting compared to the others, not to mention the second crew took away the space for the gun. Edited September 20, 2008 by kct Quote
Guest Sony Tuckson Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 the 2000 not a good dogfighter, is that what you mean?... I think it is as well suited for that role as any other a2a fighter of its own generation and a gun, even for self protection only is very usefull indeed.... Quote
kct Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) About dogfighting, that needs someone that have ACTUALLY flown a M2000 to tell us about it. What I implied is that the M2000 could probably dogfight like the others of its generation, except that doing that was probably the last thing the crews had after a strike (more so with a nuke strike from the -N). And of course, the single-seat M2000 did have a gun, but as some of us mentioned here, the addition of a second crew took away the gun. That was pretty much the same story with the two-seat F-104 right? Of course, someone said that 'a gunless bird is a useless bird'... Edited September 20, 2008 by kct Quote
Kirsten Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 the 2000 not a good dogfighter, is that what you mean?... I think it is as well suited for that role as any other a2a fighter of its own generation and a gun, even for self protection only is very usefull indeed.... Indeed, apart from the fact that no Mirage 2000 D/N driver would probably be looking for a dogfight before or after dropping ornance, the Mirage Deux Mille can perform a couple of manoeuvers thet no F 14, F15, F16, F18 or Fulcrum can follow. The reaxed stability/ fly by wire/ small canard configuration removes most of the traditional disadvantages of the delta wing, while keeping most of the advantages. A well flown demo of a Mirage 2000 is a breathtaking experience !!! (see You Tube) Aju, Derk :yes: Quote
kct Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 Not to mention its single-seat sibling did have a part in movie stardom. Quote
+FastCargo Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 Indeed, apart from the fact that no Mirage 2000 D/N driver would probably be looking for a dogfight before or after dropping ornance, the Mirage Deux Mille can perform a couple of manoeuvers thet no F 14, F15, F16, F18 or Fulcrum can follow. This didn't stop them (Mirage 2000-5) from getting 'killed' at Red Flag by F-16s on a semi-regular basis. Pretty manuvers at airshows don't necessarily translate to air dominating tactics in the field. That being said, Crusader is correct in that it is an equivalent dogfighter to the aircraft of it's generation...and though they won and lost fights, it certainly wasn't anything close to a turkey shoot for either 'side'. But what do I know...I was only drinking beer with the French pilots after watching our debriefs (including ACMI) during Coalition Flag...what happens in Vegas... FastCargo Quote
kct Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 And another thing. Too bad we didn't see its bigger brother (the 4000) flying with anyone... Quote
Kirsten Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 This didn't stop them (Mirage 2000-5) from getting 'killed' at Red Flag by F-16s on a semi-regular basis. Pretty manuvers at airshows don't necessarily translate to air dominating tactics in the field. That being said, Crusader is correct in that it is an equivalent dogfighter to the aircraft of it's generation...and though they won and lost fights, it certainly wasn't anything close to a turkey shoot for either 'side'. But what do I know...I was only drinking beer with the French pilots after watching our debriefs (including ACMI) during Coalition Flag...what happens in Vegas... FastCargo Agreed, same goes for cobra's and all sorts of tumbling manoeuvers by canard equiped aircraft. Tactics & pilot skills are the dominating factors in the end, but just the same the Mirage 2000 is a more than fair dogfighter i.m.h.o., "a slippery eel" to put in terms of the most popular animal in this forum.. Aju, Derk Quote
+Gocad Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 the mirage 2000D is a Mud-Moving only version. so, it won't need a gun that much That's pretty much a pre-OEF statement. Quote
kct Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 Er, mud-moving only version developed from nuke-moving version, that is more like it. Quote
GwynO Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 I tried downloading this when it came out but kept getting crc errors during unpacking (using Alzip). I tried again recently and got the same problem, is there a specific program I should use for this? Alzip usually does them all, rar, iso, zip, 7zip, gzip you name it, it unpacks it. I tried the alternative download link but that appears to be dead. Quote
+Dave Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Just downloaded it and unzipped it winzip. Worked just fine. . Quote
+EricJ Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 This didn't stop them (Mirage 2000-5) from getting 'killed' at Red Flag by F-16s on a semi-regular basis. Pretty manuvers at airshows don't necessarily translate to air dominating tactics in the field. That being said, Crusader is correct in that it is an equivalent dogfighter to the aircraft of it's generation...and though they won and lost fights, it certainly wasn't anything close to a turkey shoot for either 'side'. But what do I know...I was only drinking beer with the French pilots after watching our debriefs (including ACMI) during Coalition Flag...what happens in Vegas... FastCargo Some stuff I read hinted at it's maneuverability and pushed to the envelope it'll make you sweat, but not in fear. Then again the Frogs are sneaky ones so.... Quote
GwynO Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) Downloaded 7zip and gave that a try with this, and hey presto! This is going to have a looooot of playtime from me! Just fantastic and a work of art!!!! Oh and works splendidly in SFP2 on hard setting!!! Edited May 16, 2009 by Kopis n Xiphos Quote
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