FYI.....

[+Dave 2,322]

While its fun to talk about military aviation, some have to remember not to post things that might be compromising. It could have the ramifications of getting CA shut down as a worse case scenario. When in doubt, don't post it. A lot of these statues also have their equivalents to our allies which makes this obligatory I believe the term is.

 

WARNING

 

Intentional or unintentional disclosure of classified information, whether or not the individual had knowledge that such information was classified, is prohibited by USC Title 18 Ch 37 Secs 793, 798 and is punishable by law.

 

 

Statute:

 

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information -

(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(b) As used in subsection (a) of this section -

 

The term "classified information" means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

 

The terms "code," "cipher," and "cryptographic system" include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

 

The term "foreign government" includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

 

The term "communication intelligence" means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

 

The term "unauthorized person" means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

 

© Nothing in this section shall prohibit the furnishing, upon lawful demand, of information to any regularly constituted committee of the Senate or House of Representatives of the United States of America, or joint committee thereof.

 

(d)(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law -

(A) any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds
the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of
such violation; and
(B) any of the person's property used, or intended to be used,
in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission
of, such violation.

(2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1).

(3) Except as provided in paragraph (4), the provisions of subsections (b), ©, and (e) through (p) of section 413 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853(b), ©, and (e)-(p)), shall apply to -

(A) property subject to forfeiture under this subsection;
(B) any seizure or disposition of such property; and
© any administrative or judicial proceeding in relation to
such property, if not inconsistent with this subsection.

(4) Notwithstanding section 524© of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.

(5) As used in this subsection, the term "State" means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United States.

[+Dave 2,322]

I forgot to add this. This is the kind of stuff us US Military members have to abide by. So I figured this is as good as example I could post.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Roger that!

[rovert97 1]

i've got the paperwork from back in 2001 when i was discharged about what not to talk about for at least a certain amount of years.... the fines.... well they aren't pretty.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

That's one good reason among many I prefer crapp jets instead of the all in wonder digital superHUDjetfighters made by the post - Cold War McDonell/MiG/Nortrop/Sukhoi corporate merger. WretchFest Maximus.

 

Less current "secrets" involved.

 

But still alot of secret stuff hidden in the Olde Stuff I would imagine, but probably not as much that might effect a sim of this detail (although, one never knows!!).

[JediMaster 451]

Sometimes the stuff that is still classified decades later boggles the mind. Like the SR-71's true capabilities (when it's been TOTALLY retired for over 10 years), or some of the JFK assassination files (when the official story indicates there shouldn't be ANYTHING classified), etc.

The problem is only a few limited people are capable of declassifying things and they tend to err on the side of caution and don't.

Another good one is the F-16's exact flight model numbers. The plane is decades old and has been everywhere including in countries that aren't friendly anymore. There's no way the thing's specs aren't in the hands of every unfriendly nation's intel services by now, but it stays classified because maybe SOMEONE doesn't know it yet.

I once read the only difference between a classified briefing and what you see on the news is that the classified one has the names of the sources and thereby gives you a measure of the credibility. Something on CNN will likely not be believed by everyone, so you have that doubt which will make adversaries not take it as gospel.

[Mannie 21]

No need to worry about me Dave.

 

I keep my mouth shut for two reassons.

 

1. I don't know much anyway.

 

2. I don't want the MOSAD bitting on my tail.

 

You dig?

 

Cheers.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

I once read the only difference between a classified briefing and what you see on the news is that the classified one has the names of the sources and thereby gives you a measure of the credibility. Something on CNN will likely not be believed by everyone, so you have that doubt which will make adversaries not take it as gospel.

 

I've sat in a lot of "classified" briefings and done a lot of "classified" ops, and I'll tell you this, sometimes a lot of the "classified" intel we received was useless, well not useless per say it just wasn't really needed. Some stuff that is secret, I had no idea why it was secret, obviously I'm not going to go into it, but it seemed trivial. Some things that were secret at the time like numbers of a/c and types in a particular flight probably aren't secret anymore, but that stuff really isn't that interesting.

 

But you are right, a lot of the stuff that was secret was the identity of the intel collector.

[macelena 1,070]

Damn, i was about to tell who wasted Kennedy.

 

Don´t worry, Dave. If you achieve the confidence by command to learn something classified,

you shall be smart enough not to post it here.

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

Stealing a line from Armageddon (merged with another one from another movie): "I've only got five words for you, macelena: The Truth is out there!"

[macelena 1,070]

Stealing a line from Armageddon (merged with another one from another movie): "I've only got five words for you, macelena: The Truth™ is out there!"

 

 

Aaaaah!, Truth is a TradeMark.

Second deception in same topic

[JediMaster 451]

Any "numbers" that are current or even recent I can understand being classified, and they often are like freqs, ranges, speeds, etc, but I'll just say anything that was classified before I was born I have a hard time believing needs to stay that way!

Then you've got something like the B-2 where it's not just the stealth numbers that are classified. As they say, it was called the "Advanced Tech Bomber", not "Stealth Bomber" by the USAF.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

I remember signing a stack of forms pertaining to information that may or may not have been relevent to a previous position I've held. And while most everything I'd experienced or worked on was probably already (or now currently)in the public domain, the 6 figure fines and possible 3 year gaol sentence (I think it was 3, last time I looked anyways) and being somebody's butt monkey are punishments I'll quite happily avoid.

[+SkippyBing 8]

There is a particularly genius bit in the UK Official Secrets Act that says you can't put two unclassified pieces of information together to come up with something that's classified. The first time you read it you think, yeah I bet I can, then you realise it's to prevent people using open source information etc. to get around the Act by saying well if you read X and Y then Z is obvious when they knew Z all along.

[JediMaster 451]

Oh, the "Chinese Food" method (I call it that because of the "Column A" combined with "Column B" characteristics) is probably the biggest source of CMIs here. The problem is it's hard to know ahead of time if that will be classified so it happens by accident, harder to prevent. We do have little signs up all over with stuff in "column A" and stuff in "column B" that says "if you cross the line, problem!" You can put as much stuff from column A in one document/email that you want, and ditto for column B, but just one thing from the other side combined with just one from the first and you've gone and made a headache for the comm people.

[macelena 1,070]

I´m not from the USAF Cyberspace Division, but i don´t think that anybody would post sensitive things, or

that information released here could be of interest, or if been so, detected, processed and used properly

by a rogue power. We aren´t so important well, better keep the mouth closed about some issues

[+Typhoid 231]

I´m not from the USAF Cyberspace Division, but i don´t think that anybody would post sensitive things, or

that information released here could be of interest, or if been so, detected, processed and used properly

by a rogue power. We aren´t so important well, better keep the mouth closed about some issues

 

 

you would be surprised. An outstanding (ly bad) example is the USAF Maj who (used to) fly F-22's and posted all kinds of very interesting details on it on a web blog somewhere. briefly.....

 

One of the guys I work with actually used to be that guy's wing commander. He had some "choice" comments about that idiot!

 

point being that people can be stupid and put stuff up that has no reason to be here and should not be up here. And yes, there are some very savy and very bad actors out there who data mine everywhere.

 

You would be surprised to see just how quickly Google will pick up blog comments from places just like this and, in fact, have picked up posts from this very site.

[+Jug 99]

you would be surprised. An outstanding (ly bad) example is the USAF Maj who (used to) fly F-22's and posted all kinds of very interesting details on it on a web blog somewhere. briefly.....

 

One of the guys I work with actually used to be that guy's wing commander. He had some "choice" comments about that idiot!

 

point being that people can be stupid and put stuff up that has no reason to be here and should not be up here. And yes, there are some very savy and very bad actors out there who data mine everywhere.

 

You would be surprised to see just how quickly Google will pick up blog comments from places just like this and, in fact, have picked up posts from this very site.

Most non-technical classified stuff can be figured out by a little practical common sense. What makes it classified is who tells the tale. If I said something that is real close to the classified answer (say about politics), I don't have any credibility. If I am the government spokesperson saying the same thing, then it is classified because I am the official who knows. If I am a spy, I don't care what Jug's comments are because he has no credibillity no matter how close he is in his conjecture. It is assumed that the government spokesperson does not suffer the same problem. What is scary is what an insurance salesman can put together with a few unclassified facts and a good common sense approach to what he doesn't know. Tom Clancy did so in most all of his list of really good novels. What gave him all of the credibility he needed was the discomfort with which the US Navy read his novels.

[+Typhoid 231]

"What gave him all of the credibility he needed was the discomfort with which the US Navy read his novels. "

 

you aren't kidding!!!

 

[macelena 1,070]

What gave him all of the credibility he needed was the discomfort with which the US Navy read his novels.

 

The guy got pics of him aboards any kind of ship, from a VLS-less AEGIS (saw the Mk44 launcher) to a SSBN.

 

About the Raptor pilot you mentioned, typhoid... did you get him keel-hauled? That´s something that USAF should get from Navy,

not only Phantoms

[+Typhoid 231]

The guy got pics of him aboards any kind of ship, from a VLS-less AEGIS (saw the Mk44 launcher) to a SSBN.

 

About the Raptor pilot you mentioned, typhoid... did you get him keel-hauled? That´s something that USAF should get from Navy,

not only Phantoms

 

he was the star of a security training briefing that went around the services. Sort of an all service here-is-how-you-can-destroy-your-career presentation. Haven't heard what he is doing now, probably folding towels in the BOQ at Shemya......

[JediMaster 451]

I guess the fighter jock's natural predilection towards bragging went too far that time.