Your Nemesis...

[Lt. James Cater 62]

We all have one major pain of an enemy aircraft that is your absolute worst nightmare.

 

While multiple types can pose a threat there is always one that is above the rest and just happens to be the worst thing that can appear. For me it is the MIG-19. Since reinstalling WOE and adding NF4, I've been flying the 62 campaign and the 19 is what does the most damage. Example, at the moment i'm doing recce work in the RF-84F Thundeflash. So far i've gotten jumped by Mig17s once and did the most obvious thing, punched tanks and went for the deck at full throttle. Below 2,000 ft i was able to stay ahead of them until they broke off, so i know i can outrun them. 21s i consider harmless unless they catch me asleep. Atolls can be dodged quite easily and some 21s don't even have a gun.

 

But MIG-19s?

 

In the Deuce, the 19 was easily the biggest headache. It's fast, climbs good, manuvers well, and has a 3X30mm knockout punch. Whenever we had losses you can bet that the 19 did the most damage. One put an end to my second campaign in the Deuce. Sure, i shot down a lot of them but i always did my best not to engage close in with one.

 

Now that i'm in a RF-84, i positively dread the thought of one on my 6.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Lt. James Cater

[zmatt 2]

Well the Farmer, climbs faster, turns better, accelerates faster, has a higher top speed at all levels and has a high ceiling than the RF-84F. I'd say if you come up against them you are in a world of hurt. The one thing you have going for you is range, you can stay up much longer. If you get caught in a fight I would just try and juke around and dodge them long enough till they either run out of ammo or they run out of fuel. Diving wouldn't hurt but he can catch up pretty easily so don't bet on it.

[Rambler 1-1 9]

if you get waxed, go to a zig-zag flight path on any axis, so that you're going back and froth across his line of fire. This way the time that you're in his sights is minimal. He won't be able to get a good shot off at you, and will always have to go into burner to line up again. Eventually he will run out of ammo or fuel. Juts be careful not to fall into a rhythm, because then he'll just lead you and knock you off. And watch out in case he gets lucky.

 

The wildcats used to use this tactic against the zero, but in that case the zero was lightly armed so a few hits weren't a big deal. In this situation, however, you'll have to time your turns carefully and take advantage of the low RPM and low muzzle velocity of the 30mm so you can pretty much manuver around bursts.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Can the AI run out of fuel? I thought that was removed?

 

Anyways, I usually have my most difficulties going up against flankers..... unless I'm in the F-22. But rarely do I fly in something that would give me such an advantage. I like a fair fight. Makes things interesting.

[zmatt 2]

Can the AI run out of fuel? I thought that was removed?

 

Anyways, I usually have my most difficulties going up against flankers..... unless I'm in the F-22. But rarely do I fly in something that would give me such an advantage. I like a fair fight. Makes things interesting.

 

They will bingo and go home, but they never run dry to my knowledge.

[scouserlad13 0]

I really hate the SU-27, that aircraft will really be a pain in the arse for you. Its quick, manouverable and has got a great weapons loadout.

[Icarus999 70]

I really hate the SU-27, that aircraft will really be a pain in the arse for you. Its quick, manouverable and has got a great weapons loadout.

 

Agreed.... the mix from hell is Su-27's at altitude and modernized Mig-17's on the deck. Throw in some mountain/canyon terrain and things get real interesting.

[+Spillone104 553]

Agree with Lt. James Cater.

The Mig-19 especially the S version is a very good dogfighter. Have very good performance and fantastic hit power for its time but have 2 major disadvantages: The fuel run out very quick and the ammo.

[macelena 1,070]

About the wildcat tactics, i don´t know how do yo people engage the enemies, perhaps you

prefer duels 1x1, but once in a mess, i try to shoot down whatever i see. If i see a good chance

on one chasing a fellow, i´ll get behind them while evading, i use the surprise, or any chance i may get,

i would say that this way there is no aerial nemesis.

 

As far as the aircraft i use the most in the 60s is the F-104G, you don´t use to rely on your maneuvering

against any enemy, but have some advantages: Performance (Hehe) and M61A1. With this you can literaly erase them

while merging, like jousting. This way, you can fill with lead any enemy, no matter how well does it turn. Get far as you fly

fast while they were slow, trying classic maneuvering, so they can´t follow you. You make the tempos of the engagement

 

This is why i like the Starfighter. In real life it may had been a pain in the neck, and is frustrating in the game until

you get familiar with him, but it is my favourite fighter is this era.

 

My real nemesis are AAA and SAMs. They got me mad at them. That´s why, when i´m not flying fighters i enjoy so much

SEAD

[MigBuster 2,884]

Can the AI run out of fuel? I thought that was removed?

 

Anyways, I usually have my most difficulties going up against flankers..... unless I'm in the F-22. But rarely do I fly in something that would give me such an advantage. I like a fair fight. Makes things interesting.

 

When they bingo they often hit the deck and peg it for home - which is something they never used to do so thats a big improvement

[Caesar 305]

Think there was a discussion about this earlier, but it's been a while so I'll bite: MiG-17's are the only aircraft I ever get a bad feeling about when I go up. They're small, highly maneuverable, tricky little bastards and it doesn't matter what aircraft I'm flying in, they always give me a run for my money if the engagement turns into a dogfight. Even modern MiGs and Sukohis don't give me nearly the problems that little Fresco does in a dogfight.

[MigBuster 2,884]

We all have one major pain of an enemy aircraft that is your absolute worst nightmare.

 

But MIG-19s?

 

In the Deuce, the 19 was easily the biggest headache. It's fast, climbs good, manuvers well, and has a 3X30mm knockout punch. Whenever we had losses you can bet that the 19 did the most damage. One put an end to my second campaign in the Duece. Sure, i shot down a lot of them but i always did my best not to engage close in with one.

 

Now that i'm in a RF-84, i positively dread the thought of one on my 6.

 

 

Actually got jumped by 1 of these over the sea in SF2 on a way to a SEAD mission in an F-4C - its shot down my wingy - then naturally I kept all my bombs and went in full burner to the target with the MiG-19 stuck to my six and firing practically all the way - just think a few years back i would have ignored the little **** - but he wasnt giving up!!! Due to his persistance I missed the AAA sites - however i pulled out of one dive and saw a MIG-17 in front of me going in a straight line (for once) - so I took the carrot and hit it with my remaining LAU-3As haha.

 

 

 

last week i was flying the SF2 custom 1v1 missions to do a little testing - mainly using the F-4J. Firstly I could still beat the MiG-21 in a turning fight with a bit more effort and gunned that down.

 

Didnt bother with the 17 - just did the old disengage and hit it with sparrows trick - and used my wingy on the 2v2 to hit the other when it got on my tail

 

The MiG-19 turning fight turned into a stalemate where it came down to fuel - however on my next attempt i just went past it - but outrunning it to get in to position for AIm-7s is not like it used to be - in fact I ditched the gun pod in the next flight so i could get more speed to run from it!!!

 

Going in the vertical with the F-4 against the Mig-19 is probably best not advised due to the F-4s **** handling at high altitude in this sim - and dont assume you can out climb it either because it seems you cant very easily!!

 

The MiG-19 is a pain - unless you can out turn it - in which case its easy as long as you dont fall for the carrot and stick AI tactics!!!

 

 

 

Some things i don't like about the later patch versions:

 

The MiG-17/19 react when I lock them with radar - errr afraid not - pretty sure they didnt have RWRs back then.

 

The Hunter and MiG-17A/F seem over powered - flying the Hunter in WOE you can out turn anything in it and thanks to the extra power can run most things down.

 

The MiG-17 couldnt outturn a 747 at over 450kts - unless the pilot was superman - however in this game they can out turn you at any speed! grrr

 

still - cant have everything

[Lt. James Cater 62]

About the wildcat tactics, i don´t know how do yo people engage the enemies, perhaps you

prefer duels 1x1, but once in a mess, i try to shoot down whatever i see. If i see a good chance

on one chasing a fellow, i´ll get behind them while evading, i use the surprise, or any chance i may get,

i would say that this way there is no aerial nemesis.

 

As far as the aircraft i use the most in the 60s is the F-104G, you don´t use to rely on your maneuvering

against any enemy, but have some advantages: Performance (Hehe) and M61A1. With this you can literaly erase them

while merging, like jousting. This way, you can fill with lead any enemy, no matter how well does it turn. Get far as you fly

fast while they were slow, trying classic maneuvering, so they can´t follow you. You make the tempos of the engagement

 

This is why i like the Starfighter. In real life it may had been a pain in the neck, and is frustrating in the game until

you get familiar with him, but it is my favourite fighter is this era.

 

My real nemesis are AAA and SAMs. They got me mad at them. That´s why, when i´m not flying fighters i enjoy so much

SEAD

 

Since installing NF4 i've done two campaigns in F-102s and as i said above, i'm currently flying an RF-84.

 

With the Deuce, once you are out of missles you become a rather prominent target. Check out the performance stats and you can see that the MIG-19 has a considerable advantage across the board. The saving graces about the F-102 was it's fuel capacity, afterburner, and speed at altitude. If i was able to make it to 40,000ft unmolested i was as good as gone. However, getting there was the major challenge.

 

The Thunderflash has not a single advantage over a 19. To be jumped deep over enemy territory by one is my personal nightmare. Remember, i'm in a recce bird. It's for taking pictures then running home, dogfighting is not part of the job. Ok, i've got four .50s with 310 rounds. 1v1 can be done. A whole flight?

 

I don't think so.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Lt. James Cater

[Sakai 2]

Tell you the truth, the new MF Mig-29 instills fear in me every time I face it. If not at max range to use BVR missiles, i'm not happy. When u pick air start in options very often you end up five miles away at start of mission and way into their SRAAM range, bad place to be!!! In 60's scenarios, the Mig-17 and Mig-19 normally give me the most trouble. But if I engage with the advantage it's all over, even me vs. superior numbers. I've got a screenie around here somewhere of blazing two 17's in a Super Sabre on the first pass!

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

A good topic. Some of you fellas/fellattes may wish to read this. ANG F-86 pilot flies tests against USMC pilot in MiG-19. As always, only the best are allowed to fly MiGs.

 

WE INTERVIEW LES WALTMAN ~> http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v23les.htm

 

If ThunderFlap is making you sad and depress, try some F-100 data ini work to mythically extend RF-100A to tactical or "thirdwire" use. Before U-2, a few RF-100A flew strategic afterburning recon over USSR. 4 tanks.

 

North American RF-100A Slick Chick ~> http://www.spyflight.co.uk/f100.htm

[+streakeagle 871]

A good topic. Some of you fellas/fellattes may wish to read this. ANG F-86 pilot flies tests against USMC pilot in MiG-19. As always, only the best are allowed to fly MiGs.

 

WE INTERVIEW LES WALTMAN ~> http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v23les.htm

 

If ThunderFlap is making you sad and depress, try some F-100 data ini work to mythically extend RF-100A to tactical or "thirdwire" use. Before U-2, a few RF-100A flew strategic afterburning recon over USSR. 4 tanks.

 

North American RF-100A Slick Chick ~> http://www.spyflight.co.uk/f100.htm

 

Interesting that the aircraft involved is named as a MiG-19, but every aspect of the conversation indicates that it was a MiG-17.

In particular, the Have Drill program named was the evaluation of the MiG-17.

Also the F-86 is named as being the closest thing in US servcie to the MiG for evaluations against F-100 and F-105.

None of the described info really fits the MiG-19, but the low roll rate and high turn rate easily describe the MiG-17.

An F-86 is nothing like a MiG-19, but is a lot like the MiG-15/MiG-17 family.

So, I believe it was a major typo (the whole article has tons of mistakes as typed onto the web).

[Lt. James Cater 62]

A good topic. Some of you fellas/fellattes may wish to read this. ANG F-86 pilot flies tests against USMC pilot in MiG-19. As always, only the best are allowed to fly MiGs.

 

WE INTERVIEW LES WALTMAN ~> http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v23les.htm

 

If ThunderFlap is making you sad and depress, try some F-100 data ini work to mythically extend RF-100A to tactical or "thirdwire" use. Before U-2, a few RF-100A flew strategic afterburning recon over USSR. 4 tanks.

 

North American RF-100A Slick Chick ~> http://www.spyflight.co.uk/f100.htm

 

 

I'm big on dealing with what i have to work with. So far, so good with the RF-84 and that's it. If i don't like it i can always turn in my wings.

[Falcon161 3]

I had no problem taking out Raptors in the Su-35 but my Nemises has been the F-15 Active as they seem more persistent, and they work in pairs for some reason going 2 on 1. I usually have to catch one off guard pump an R-73 up his arse and go in on guns for the one behind me after oout maneuvering him. I say 5/15 fights I have lost to the Damn F-15 Active

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

MiG-17? Very interesting streak. Yea the typos kill that interview. So Ham Drill was a typo for Have Drill? And I see Have Drill is mentioned as well. DOh

 

I was surprised at Waltman's poor opinion of the MiG armament. MiG-17 instead of -19 would shed light on that. Also just noticed this...

 

With an afterburner,...

One afterburner....check.

 

So I can't use this again for MiG-19 threads. Dam it. Thanks alot pal!!!

[Lt. James Cater 62]

MiG-17? Very interesting streak. Yea the typos kill that interview. So Ham Drill was a typo for Have Drill? And I see Have Drill is mentioned as well. DOh

 

I was surprised at Waltman's poor opinion of the MiG armament. MiG-17 instead of -19 would shed light on that. Also just noticed this...

 

 

One afterburner....check.

 

So I can't use this again for MiG-19 threads. Dam it. Thanks alot pal!!!

 

I've read a whole lot of stuff over the years and yes, it's the Mig-17 they are talking about.

 

I wish to hell there was more info out there for the 19 but no joy. Oh well, as far as i keep out of it's gun envelope i can cope with it.

[Viggen 644]

MiG-19 is my nemesis too. Damn thing smacks my F-4D, 60% of the time. Killed me more than all other aircraft and AAA combined, apart from the SA-6.

 

Did the US ever test a MiG-19?

[johnrey 0]

In the 60's mode, the MiG-19's are always on my problem.If your in a Phantom, it's the burners that always does the trick.

[+streakeagle 871]

The MiG-19 looked great on paper, especially compared to its rival, the F-100, but for many reasons, pilots hated it.

With the exception of the Chinese, most Communist air forces went from MiG-17s to MiG-21s, buying/building as few MiG-19s as possible.

There were numerous reliability/quality control issues that gave this plane a bad reputation.

 

In SFP1, none of the real world problems are apparent and as originally modeled was an unstoppable UFO in online multiplayer mixing the power of the F-4 with the maneuverability of the MiG-17.

By the 083006 patch series, the MiG-19 was a lot less dominant, the F-8E took over as the new unstoppable UFO.

 

With multiplayer having been deleted in SF2, there is really no good way to evaluate the FMs on a comparitive basis.

I need to fly against established human pilots that fly the aircraft to every limit to really know how the flight models compare to each other.

[Rambler 1-1 9]

I believe the engines in the MiG-19 had a TBO of 100 hours or something, so they were real maintenance hogs/hangar queens. I've never had much trouble with the MiG-19 in Phantoms, in fact I'd rather face one of them then a MiG-17. Above 450 knots, you can almost turn with him, and if you just use the default Phantom climb and dive attacks, they're easy fodder.

 

I also noticed a while ago that the TW MiG-19 climbs pretty quick, one once accelerated from 350 knots at 1000 feet or so to mach 1 at 10,000 feet in a minute, catching up to me in a feat that I can not call realistic. I consulted the MiG_19Sdata.ini and a reliable internet source (wikipedia) and I think the TW MiG was 300kg or so too light. I naturally added 325 kg for good luck against them in the future. Suppose the pilot is fat.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Rambler 1-1

[zmatt 2]

The I understand it is that some of the better NV pilots actually preferred the MiG-17 over the -19 and -21.

Edited June 1, 2009 by zmatt