Patch December 2010-C is out!

[eraser_tr]

What is such a big deal?

 

Ok, so there's a bug where you can't start on the ground, it's not the end of Strike Fighters as we know it! Seriously.

 

Now I always start on the ground, but out of the entire time in a mission, spend maybe less than a minute on the ground before takeoff. TK said he'd find out why and fix it, its probably something simple, like the starting position option for in air and on gound accidentally point to the same value (that of the air start). As soon as TK is done celebrating the holidays and is back to work we'll see a fix right away.

 

There's no need to decry the death of the sim or boycotting future additions because of it.

 

In the meantime I'll use some of the spare time to dig through main and menu ini files to see if there is something there to fix it without editing individual missions.

[Heck]

What is such a big deal?

 

Ok, so there's a bug where you can't start on the ground, it's not the end of Strike Fighters as we know it! Seriously.

 

Now I always start on the ground, but out of the entire time in a mission, spend maybe less than a minute on the ground before takeoff. TK said he'd find out why and fix it, its probably something simple, like the starting position option for in air and on gound accidentally point to the same value (that of the air start). As soon as TK is done celebrating the holidays and is back to work we'll see a fix right away.

 

There's no need to decry the death of the sim or boycotting future additions because of it.

 

In the meantime I'll use some of the spare time to dig through main and menu ini files to see if there is something there to fix it without editing individual missions.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

[+Dave]

That's not the point, the point is if you read my post. Was that with every patch as of late it's been breaking something in addition to adding something. Thus why I said one step forward and 2 steps back. So naturally some of us are going to get upset when something like this happens......AGAIN.....

[+FastCargo]

Well, there are several sides to this story about the patches.

 

First, is it important in the overall scheme of things? Of course not, ultimately, it's just a computer game that doesn't cost a whole lot of money to buy, and doesn't make a whole lot of money for it's creator. I've met TK and DanW in person, had them over for pizza and beer...believe me, they aren't A) getting rich or B) out to screw folks...they're normal folks like you and me, and like you and me can make mistakes. After working in multi-million dollar simulators that just focus on one aircraft, with no combat AI (or significant civilian AI) and still lamenting on how they don't act like the real thing, any available sim you can buy will be a pale shadow...period.

 

Having said that, the last patch strikes me as a little concerning. Some of the other bugs that were in the previous packs/patches which were significant, but could have been overlooked due to testing only with stock installs (I don't hang around to watch AI land aircraft unless I'm doing testing in which case I could just build a mission that only has aircraft on final to make sure they land correctly). However, this patch's 'Start in the air' bug seems like something that should have gotten noticed right away in initial testing. There's a very real possibility of TK having to issue 3 patches in the space of less than 1 month due to multi bug fixing, with only one of patches dealing with specific 3rd party mod support (the shadow bug).

 

It seems to me that the amount of extra work may steer TK toward the rehiring of beta testers in order to avoid this sort of thing from happening again. I know I would be concerned about my product if I'm having to jam out 3 fixes in 3 weeks. Now, there may be specific concerns TK has about hiring beta testers (including monetary or legal issues). However, those concerns may be outweighed by the perception of QC slipping...but I'm not the one running what is still ultimately, a business.

 

Is it a problem? Sure. Am I going to another sim? No...nothing out there at the moment has the balance between absolute fidelity and playability (along with modability and selection of aircraft) that TK sims have. Anything else you hear about...until the official release, it's all vaporware.

 

FC

[+Julhelm]

He's also probably been crunching like mad the last days before the holidays. I know we were at my studio and believe you me some bugs are bound to slip by when you have to contend with things like texture compression being broken 2 hours before your deadline.

[+Stary]

I'm pretty sure next patch will be out in several days, not that big deal for me. The only thing I can't believe is how they misssed the air starts (which, as stated before, I don't use most of my time).

 

Also I'm sure the prop issue could be handled by TK in other way without the need of reexporting 300+ models, process that's prone to further errors (as seen on Kurnass pic).

 

And true Julhelm, I know a thing or two about gremlins increased activity around deadline time...

[+Old Diego]

Nobody is saying that Thirdwire is not filled with normal humans. We ALL make mistakes. I think my issue is that if you remove the beta testers and take on that extra task, you are responsible to perform the task - not the paying customer or community. I mean, think about this - TK has said that he doesn't keep mods in mind when testing...or something to that effect. Fine, I can agree with that since he is not patching mods but what I don't think he realizes is that the beta testers use to test the patches/updates on their own mods too. Don't believe me? Ask around. The system has worked. This is a symbiotic relationship we have with TK. He doesn't see it that way and claims to build just for the vanilla stock customer. Woohoo for that tiny minority. Maybe those customers can keep up that warm fuzzy feeling of supporting the developer.

 

The end of the sim? Naw...more like who will be left to care if its still around.

[Murphy'S]

Nobody is saying that Thirdwire is not filled with normal humans. We ALL make mistakes. I think my issue is that if you remove the beta testers and take on that extra task, you are responsible to perform the task - not the paying customer or community. I mean, think about this - TK has said that he doesn't keep mods in mind when testing...or something to that effect. Fine, I can agree with that since he is not patching mods but what I don't think he realizes is that the beta testers use to test the patches/updates on their own mods too. Don't believe me? Ask around. The system has worked. This is a symbiotic relationship we have with TK. He doesn't see it that way and claims to build just for the vanilla stock customer. Woohoo for that tiny minority. Maybe those customers can keep up that warm fuzzy feeling of supporting the developer.

 

The end of the sim? Naw...more like who will be left to care if its still around.

 

 

if TK read this thread he'll may change his mind who knows?

[xclusiv8]

I would volunteer for beta testing work and i bet alot of guys here would also. TK should use his community

[+EricJ]

Nobody is saying that Thirdwire is not filled with normal humans. We ALL make mistakes. I think my issue is that if you remove the beta testers and take on that extra task, you are responsible to perform the task - not the paying customer or community. I mean, think about this - TK has said that he doesn't keep mods in mind when testing...or something to that effect. Fine, I can agree with that since he is not patching mods but what I don't think he realizes is that the beta testers use to test the patches/updates on their own mods too. Don't believe me? Ask around. The system has worked. This is a symbiotic relationship we have with TK. He doesn't see it that way and claims to build just for the vanilla stock customer. Woohoo for that tiny minority. Maybe those customers can keep up that warm fuzzy feeling of supporting the developer.

 

Well I think I can relate to that with the Super Hornet Packsge. With all these merged installs and me with lil old SF2E, my focus is mainly on that game, but easily usable in a merged or non-merged install. But that's just as far as it goes with that. To me it seems he's not trying to get too wrapped up in supporting the mod community to the extent of trying to do everything for us. Because he's got a lot of other things to worry about, and let the modders do what they do using his core values, and letting us experiment which in all honesty is why I enjoyed LOMAC for it's fedelity, but in the end the lack of mod capability let me get tired of it. But as other people have said, the bugs are major yes, but I'm still flying around, after reading some fixes so I'm not lost on the TW sims, just hoping for a better patch.

[+Dave]

Also if I can speak on behalf of Diego, Crazyhorse, we are working on this Mig Killer project and we were going full steam on it. Was hoping to something out for you yesterday. Needless to say we got a little pissed off and frustrated. TK has come through with fixes in the past and I was venting. Which I think as a modder for the last 8 years I'm entitled to do once in a blue moon.

[+Stary]

 

 

sorry, couldn't ressist

[+Dave]

[+EricJ]

 

That was a good one Stary...

[SFP1Ace]

BTW, has anyone noticed improved detection range for Floggers with December patches? I think MLAs & MLDs can detect player now at 70 KM, MLs at 65 KM. Before (Jun 2010?) it was 60 KM for all three subtypes, I believe!

Edited December 26, 2010 by SFP1Ace

[+Stary]

I noticed that when my burning Hunter with rocketpods under it's wings started to break apart, the pods fired few rockets on their own before wing tore off that's some nice small detail

[+Wrench]

Dave vented

 

isn't that pointing to the worng orifice???

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+Stary]

isn't that pointing to the worng orifice???

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

it's void of universe, you got it upside down

[+Dels]

Also if I can speak on behalf of Diego, Crazyhorse, we are working on this Mig Killer project and we were going full steam on it. Was hoping to something out for you yesterday. Needless to say we got a little pissed off and frustrated. TK has come through with fixes in the past and I was venting. Which I think as a modder for the last 8 years I'm entitled to do once in a blue moon.

I guess you'll have to wait at least 2 more years before your next "vent"...

 

Blue moon (wikipedia)

 

Dels

[+PureBlue]

I don't seem to have shadows displaying on the terrain tiles.

All shadows only display on each other and cut off if it crosses terrain.

This includes aircraft shadows. It's all good on runways, taxiways, and other objects but not on the terrain itself.

Can anybody confirm?!

(Same in stock terrains, All Unlimited settings)

 

Edited December 27, 2010 by pureblue

[+Wrench]

that's the 'shadow displacement issue' that only shows on Unlimted (been doing it since 12/09? 2/10?? whichever!). Drop it down to HIGH, and it'll go away.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+PureBlue]

No man, the screen is from the same spot on Dec-2010B, shadows alright..

 

I've never had this shadow problem in my Anatolia terrain. (All patches, full merged, unlimited)

But noticed it on some of your newer releases. (Eg. Libya)

Been wanting to investigate, suspecting it's from the terrain_data.ini or flightengine settings.

But this problem IMHO is something new in Dec-2010C.

Plus, High Shadow settings even won't cure it here, does it for you?

 

 

Both screens from DEC-2010B:

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2010 by pureblue

[+Wrench]

ok ... now this IS weird... reset to unlimited, and NOW the damn things look normal!!! I'm at a loss!! (2010-B patch)

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+PureBlue]

Yes it does

 

Now how about 2010-C ?

I'm going to put that in the bug thread at TW if anybody else can confirm?

 

And on a positive note:

 

1- The smoke from chimneys is fixed.

2- And somekind of gfx engine modification to stop ground objects from sinking ontop of one other, as the camera moves away (or zoomout from cockpit)

(For example the pits would sink under the tarmac after about a few miles of distance.)

 

Something else

Horizon distances decreased in flightengine.ini (C has lower distances than B)

 

[LowDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=30000.0      from 45000.0

[MedDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=42000.0  	from 50000.0

[HighDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=50000.0 	from 60000.0

[unlimitedDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=62000.0   	from 75000.0

Edited December 27, 2010 by pureblue

[SFP1Ace]

Yes it does

 

Now how about 2010-C ?

I'm going to put that in the bug thread at TW if anybody else can confirm?

 

And on a positive note:

 

1- The smoke from chimneys is fixed.

2- And somekind of gfx engine modification to stop ground objects from sinking ontop of one other, as the camera moves away (or zoomout from cockpit)

(For example the pits would sink under the tarmac after about a few miles of distance.)

 

Something else

Horizon distances decreased in flightengine.ini (C has lower distances than B)

 

[LowDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=30000.0      from 45000.0

[MedDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=42000.0  	from 50000.0

[HighDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=50000.0 	from 60000.0

[unlimitedDetailOption]
HorizonDistance=62000.0   	from 75000.0

 

"Hidden performance optimisations"