How close is RoF snapping behind P4?

[Siggi 10]

It's not that close to getting its teeth into P3, never mind P4.

 

Don't get me wrong though, RoF is a fine sim. But it's still so far behind P3 in terms of content and scope and range. Full front, full plane-set and all the skins and stuff. Living breathing world. Technical details. AI. Its beta-campaign is a massive leap forward but...things...are...going...so...slooowly. I did think they'd cracked it but...

 

Then again, if P4 isn't out before summer the sky will fall! Quick guys, hurry up! Alert! Alert!

[+elephant 36]

And the latest, IMO arcadish call on Hollywood style scarves and the non historical way streamers were finally depicted,

really pissed me off!

Not to mention the "personal package"...

Alhough my good relations to the developing team, due to my pilot skin work,

I couldn't help it and was kind of aggresive against their "commercial trick" in the RoF Forums.

The AI fix of cloud blindness and RTB when hit or low at fuel was very welcome, indeed.

I tried the beta Career but dropped it at once in favor of Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator.

I agree with the pace RoF goes it could approach OFF planeset, in may be...10 years...

 

[Hellshade 110]

Don't want to turn this into a us vs them type thread, but RoF has made a nice stride forward with it's beta career mode. It doesn't have anywhere near the scope of OFF P3's campaign though and at best, with so few planes in the sky at one time it always feels like you are on the quiet part of the front. So yes, OFF is stil far ahead of RoF in campaign, however there are currently some small details where RoF has pulled ahead. Arty spotting / directing fire missions actually allow you to change where the fire is being sent, which is a very nice touch. What kills the immersion there is how bare the front actually is unfortunately. For the most part, you re-direct your artillary rounds from one patch of empty ground to another patch of empty ground. Few if any tanks or men can be seen so you kind of feel like "what's the point?"

 

 

In my humble opinion, each sim holds it's strongpoint on opposite ends of the flight sim spectrum, one for single player campaign and one for multiplayer. Both seem to be making an effort to start covering the other end better. In the end, we all win. OFF 2 will be released when the devs feel comfortable it's the experience they want to deliver. I "can't wait" to see what they put together because I'm sure it'll be fantastic as always...but between P3, Skyrim, RoF MP and being back to Rift, I don't have time for all the games I have now. Not to mention my wife got me BF3 for Christmas so I need to work my way through that.

 

In Skyrim I created a Dead is Dead character who so far has made it to level 17. In Rift I have leveled up a Cleric using what is called a "Duracell" build so he can just mow down mobs endlessly 3 to 7 at a time and never stop. In RoF I've been doing quite well on the MP side of things and in OFF I've been trying my hand on the german side in an Alb DII.

 

Hellshade

[Burning Beard 14]

For Multiplayer, ROF is still the only game in town.

 

Beard

[Siggi 10]

The new online campaign for RoF promises to be a killer, if they can get over the lag-causing AI limitation. Which also cripples the offline component in terms of how many planes can be up at one time. RoF will never be able to fill the sky like OFF can (living breathing world stylee), online or off.

 

Skyrim, most played game since P3, simply superb.

[+DoctorQuest 125]

RoF needs to drop the DRM. I simply will not consider it until they do.

 

And I don't play online so that is no selling point for me.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I play RoF online with a couple of guys I know, and it's great fun. The flight and damage models are great. But the single player mode is not even close to OFF. So when I want to fly WW1 crates with other humans, I have RoF, and when I want to fly a great and immersive single player career, I have OFF.

[carrick58 23]

I am caught up. I have a scarves left over from Xmas parties ( one is white and one is wool O.D. color) also I have attached a paper streamer from a grandsons birthday party to the lamp on the right side of the Computer Desk. when the Fan is turned on it waves and looks cool.

Edited January 4, 2012 by carrick58

[lederhosen 7]

Salute

 

my 2 cent...

 

ROF is super for mmp, even with an old GTS450 I get rock solid 50fps.

But the single player gets boaring. Flown full real with no time advance can at times be ok.

 

P3 is a super campaign. But. Some of the things that happen dont make sence and pisses me off to no end to the point were I cant see

 

any point flying campaigns to the end. I realy hope that in P4 that AI and flight routes are better. If so then P4 will rock.

 

I think ROF was never intended for single player use, but that may change eventually. Love to have the Arty spotting/Photo missions

 

in P4 like in ROF. Wish P4 would be released soon as I'm not realy interested in my current P3 Campaigns anymore when I know something better

 

will soon be out.

 

 

 

Led

[nbryant 8]

In Skyrim I created a Dead is Dead character who so far has made it to level 17.

Hellshade

 

 

Now that is hardcore! .....and a great idea. I have 130 hours invested and a long way from complete but I like the idea of a DiD campaign.

 

As far as RoF. I find myself intrigued, drawn to the appearnace and some of the new features. It just doesn't maintain the attraction the OFF does and personally I think that once P4 is published it will draw enough attention to really show some others just how much is not available in RoF.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, I have been a well known RoF slagger in the past...But it's grown on me (a bit)...because of the DM and FM...but, their business accumin is awful!... I was an early purchaser of the game, at full price, with naff aircraft, that I would never even bother flying in OFF...then they come out soon afterwards with RoF Ice...with more planes...not even a diddly squat for the earlier purchasers....and if even now, you buy the aircraft...you are looking at an extremely expensive Sim...on a par with FSX (which is worth every penny I've spent on it!...but, I guess thats the way of things!

 

OFF has always been my first love...and it will be my last....flying of the Future...and crates from the past!...heehee...gone into song mode!

[themightysrc 5]

I'm only vaguely interested in RoF, mainly because of the online thing and the pricing structure (and my rig's rubbish).

 

I fly because of campaigns - which is why I played RB3D and quickly gave up on FE (despite some lovely planes and graphics). A crap campaign system, where I have to pay for every plane I wish to fly and have my activity monitored online, whilst enduring updates that I can't control and which will wolf down my monthly download limit?

 

No thanks.

[MikeDixonUK 5]

I do quite like the idea of flying around with a Pistol it must be said - although I think it's just a generic *bang-bang point in the general direction of enemy* thing, rather than something you could use the ironsights with - then again I can't say I've ever tried aiming down the ironsights of a gun whilst flying an aeroplane at the same time, so you never know, It would be nice if they actually had any pre war stuff for it though, where it would be more useful, with unarmed aircraft and the like.

 

Streamers would be good if they were for Flight Leaders though, I'm not sure if that's what they were for historically - but I think they were in the film Aces High.

 

It'd be nice to have a way of easily finding your Flight Leader after a Dogfight, for when you need to form up again.

[+Winder 32]

We are reading with interest...

 

 

WM

[Von Paulus 8]

Well, I have been a well known RoF slagger in the past...But it's grown on me (a bit)...because of the DM and FM...but, their business accumin is awful!... I was an early purchaser of the game, at full price, with naff aircraft, that I would never even bother flying in OFF...then they come out soon afterwards with RoF Ice...with more planes...not even a diddly squat for the earlier purchasers....and if even now, you buy the aircraft...you are looking at an extremely expensive Sim

+1

Only I don't buy anymore planes, and have stop flying it. I'll fly again only when P4 will be released. I want a WWI combat simulator not a WWI flight simulator.

I want the WWI feeling (without the blood and the dirty smell).

 

OFF has always been my first love...and it will be my last....flying of the Future...and crates from the past!...heehee...gone into song mode!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

That's a REALLY good idea Mike!.... knowing who the flight leader is (if he's still alive of course) would be a very handy thing!!!

[Creaghorn 10]

i think at least for the allies that the flightleader has streamers would be realistic. from literature i know that the germans always tried to get the "wimpelmann", the guy with the streamers first, because he was supposed to be the leader. also since the allied had no real individual painted AC, that was the only way to identify the leader. that was the reason why MvR painted his AC red in the first place. not because of some hollywoodish "i want to scare them" reasons but because his inexperienced jasta needed any help in the air they could get to find him. the germans for sure also had streamers, at least before the individual coloured AC thingy started. also i think the majority of german pilots had more or less the jasta colours without anything fancy besides some insignias on the fuselage or so.

 

my suggestion would be to have in the briefing room prior going to the sortie a box to be ticked or unticked, if the flightleader should have streamers. then everybody can decide individually. e.G. for lone wolf patrols there is no need for streamers, so keep it unticked or with an ace leader with fancy coloured AC there is no need for streamers. some non-ace leaders or in the Alb DII era streamers would make sense, so better to tick the box.

[Hellshade 110]

We are reading with interest...

 

 

WM

 

 

So does this mean you're going to start a Skyrim "Dead is Dead" character too?

 

On a serious note, how cool are Devs that allow an open compare / contrast thread between their sim and a competing one regarding strengths and weaknesses and their comment on it essentially is "Whats important to you is important to us...so we are interested in how you feel about each sim?"

 

Seriously the best Devs ever.

 

Hellshade

[carrick58 23]

i think at least for the allies that the flightleader has streamers would be realistic. from literature i know that the germans always tried to get the "wimpelmann", the guy with the streamers first, because he was supposed to be the leader. also since the allied had no real individual painted AC, that was the only way to identify the leader. that was the reason why MvR painted his AC red in the first place. not because of some hollywoodish "i want to scare them" reasons but because his inexperienced jasta needed any help in the air they could get to find him. the germans for sure also had streamers, at least before the individual coloured AC thingy started. also i think the majority of german pilots had more or less the jasta colours without anything fancy besides some insignias on the fuselage or so.

 

my suggestion would be to have in the briefing room prior going to the sortie a box to be ticked or unticked, if the flightleader should have streamers. then everybody can decide individually. e.G. for lone wolf patrols there is no need for streamers, so keep it unticked or with an ace leader with fancy coloured AC there is no need for streamers. some non-ace leaders or in the Alb DII era streamers would make sense, so better to tick the box.

 

After reading Creaghorn 's Post : If we get streamers in P-4, I will attach them to my wing-mans aircraft.

[+elephant 36]

What Creaghorn described was historic and IMO too, the right way to go.

ie selectable, attached on the historical spots, with historical colors.

RoF team decided to attach a blue steamer to the port upper wing of every Central Forces FL plane, (sinister?)

and to the starboard one of every Entente FL...

Also to give a Hollywood style flapping scarf to the AI aces,

then sell them to you in a variation of colors with a Colt to shoot'em up and called it "personal package" (sic)!

Although the may look "cool" in game, I'm opposed to the essence of this concept!

 

[33LIMA 972]

OFF already has the best campaign system and the widest scope (out of the box especially, as the wider First Eagles mod planeset needs a lot of d'l ing and/or fiddling to integrate with campaigns). This is likley to continue, perhaps indefinitely.

 

So, to stay competitive, P4 doesn't need to concentrate on these areas. Smarter mission selection for plane role/period (eg area/target type) and a few campaign tweaks would be good. Plus a few more planes, especially to fill the main gaps eg early-war 2-seaters for all sides, DH4 or DH9 for day bomber ops, later French 2-seater.

 

The main areas P4 needs to hit are the things RoF (and FE!) are better at already, and catch them up or better still, pass them.

 

These are mainly the things that (IMHO) make both RoF and FE (for all their limitations in other areas) significantly better at actual air-to-air combat than OFF, at present. As dogfighting and patrol-leading are key parts of WW1 aircombat, these have to be 'critical success factors' for any WW1 sim, especially for OFF due to its superiority in other areas, which is unlikely to be reached by other sims, and very unlikely indeed to be surpassed.

 

So, and acknowledging that some of these things are known to be on the P4 cards already, my list now would be:

 

- aircraft graphics - cockpits with higher resolution textures and that don't look they have cockpit lights on permanently; higher-res external graphics, with self-shading if possible; better plane LODs, especially more distant ones; more crew animation (even if it's only better-posed observers and pilots who look more into the direction of bank (a few do now but it's barely noticeable);

 

- better plane damage efffects eg no more CFS3-style engines jumping out of airframes, no wings falling off or crew jumping out but being there again next second, better/more varied plane wreck effects/graphics;

 

- better damage models eg no more flying flamers, glass engines, or planes destroyed after minor forced landings;

 

- better FMs eg no AI takeoff probs, no strange stalls or spins, better warning of stall onset eg visible and/or audible buffet, no more AI flying 'light';

 

- better AI flying and fighting eg better 2-seater under attack routines, minimise/eliminate going for the deck and then doing endless rollorcoasters/wingovers (either to escape or in trying to hit you if you're low), better leader-following/formation-keeping, split if ordered, not follow damaged leader to deck, go home on 'washout' command.

 

By all means, build on the strengths; but improving the weaker areas - and let's face it, there are some - has to be the priority.

[Creaghorn 10]

sorry, don't mean to sound rude, but all that you've listed now has been reworked from scratch and it's going to be completely different than in p3. have you seen any of the p4 pics yet or the first vid? also it was confirmed about dozen times from the devs already, all that and mainly the campaign system is reworked completely. better graphics, better FM, DM, campaign, and a ton of other things.

[+elephant 36]

Yes, many of the things mentioned by Lima, have already been announced for P4.

Others like self-shading may be limited by the core engine itself...

It would have been cool if possible, though!

What always bothered me in OFF was the sense of flight comparing to RoF,

even so, in the P4 preview video, the flying seemed to be more fluid and realistic...

[Mr. Lucky 0]

I've been flying OFF since Phase I first came out. I've avoided ROF mostly because of the online requirement and lack of career as well as few airplanes. I've been flying it recently though. ROF now has a career mode built in and Patrick Wilson's campaign generator lets you fly in career mode without being online. I also took advantage of the Christmas sale to build up a fleet of airplanes that hold my interest.

 

Most of what I had to say between the two has already been said and I don't want to write an exhaustive disertation comparing the two. Like most here, OFF is my first love. I am SOOO eagerly anticipating P4 but here are a couple things that I will comment on.

 

Career: There is so much to like about OFF's career but some features that ROF do not have is a career range from 1915 to 1918. ROF only goes to 1916 and some of the aircraft early deployments aren't selectable. i.e. Lafayette Eascadrille, N11. PW's generator does let you go earlier and I was able to massage the data files to have a truly American Escadrille. Both ROF career options do not have different ranks for the RNAS. IRC, OFF does for P3 already. Now, one thing I like about ROF's career is the whole day's schedule to process through, so I get a feeling of inclusion seeing the other pilots assigned to other sorties and waiting my turn. I have a feeling of disconnect with PW's generator and not so much, but still somewhat with OFF's.

 

Gameplay. I like flying the planes in ROF because of the mechanics.I like the starting sequence, more controls like radiator shutters, the different rotary engines (some with throttle, some without). Perhaps the FM but I'm not sure. I don't care about the machine guns, because when I'm firing them, I don't even see the hammers, my focus is on the target. The externals (not skins!) I think are better than OFF and certainly better than they used to be. Especially prop speeds and rotating engines. I also think the visibility in ROF is better, I don't seem to have so much difficulty seeing between the wings or over the MG's so I seem to have better situational awareness esp. in the N11. But a lot of times, adjusting for the best visibility puts the pilot out of line with the gun sights. I like the cockpits in OFF but there are a couple things that grate my nerves. The padded MG's in Sopwith's (can't see S#$%@ around them), the windscreens on N11's (I'd cut that off on the first flight), and the elephantine headrest on the early SE5A. Both suffer from the problem of keeping up with friendly AI flight members on missions. I fly with realistic engine options which make it almost impossible to keep up with your flight.

 

Scenery. Over all I like OFF better, but the individual objects, I like ROF better. Also, niggling detail, but the cities in OFF seldom are where they're supposed to be, like the town being to one side or the other by a couple miles of the nexus of roads that should be in the city center. OFF has a much larger flight world and many, many other plusses, too many to list here. OFF roads, railroads, rivers are easier to spot from altitude making navigation easier. It's tough in ROF unless you can see a river.

 

Like most here, I like both for different aspects. I know the shirt comings I feel are in OFF are mostly due to the engine and if at all possible, the dev's can and will improve upon it. They've already made HUGE leaps since Phase I. Besides most of what's mentioned here already, in OFF , I'd like to see a more inclusive (not immersive) feeling in the career interface. I can't quite put my finger on how or what, but I think ROF's career get's me closer at this point. I'd like to see more early planes to flesh out the 1915 - 1916 years like Farmans, Vickers, Moraine's etc. I get tired of seeing only N11's flying my EIII in Jasta 6.

 

For ROF, I'd say more scope in the career mode and less certainty about the ending. i.e. kills, pilot death, etc. Scenery could use some work as well as a greater scope in aircraft deployment and availability. I think the ROF developers are trying to improve their sim, and doing a fair job, but working on a Personal Package instead of other improvements, seems to show a lack of authenticity perspective as well as a disconnnect from the community, IMHO.

 

I expect great things from P4 and OFF (they've set the bar pretty high) and am eagerly awaiting it's delivery. If they ever got hold of a newer, better engine, my God it'll be beautiful! I also expect great things from ROF (eventually) after they wander around for a while, but both hold a place in my stable. Now I also have to find time to do the Korean War with the UP3.0 mod to IL2. So my fav arenas (WWI and Korea) are now covered....where do I find the time?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Mr. Lucky

[OvS 8]

Yes, many of the things mentioned by Lima, have already been announced for P4.

Others like self-shading may be limited by the core engine itself...

It would have been cool if possible, though!

What always bothered me in OFF was the sense of flight comparing to RoF,

even so, in the P4 preview video, the flying seemed to be more fluid and realistic...

 

 

I can tell you for certain I have been studying RoF's texture techniques, as I am sure they did ours.. all that holds back our graphics is the DX engine. If we had

the ability to produce the lighting that RoF does, you would be astounded at how amazing this sim looks... even as good as P4 looks now, which is freakin' incredible without the aid of DX11 shading ... ;)