Things that annoy me greatly....

[Icarus999 70]

It isn't really useful to make a new cat extractor, I figure.

Once ThirdWire hears about it they will encrypt the cats differently with the next patch release.

I would.

 

Maybe if someone asks Thirdwire nicely to release a new extractor version

that allows extracting .lst+ .wav or something else too?

Though .lst and .wav are not that interesting... I bet it is 99% unchanged since 2 years ago.

 

I could not disagree more. A ton has changed since we last had access to the cat files. We have a brand new terrain engine at our disposal and not a clue of its inner workings, for us to even begin to utilize the new engine we must understand it. can you imagine what a guy like Stary could accomplish with that engine once he fully understood it.

I realize that you are concerned that you may piss TK off... on the flip side he is sure not showing any concern towards pissing off the people who have supported him, and bought every one of his titles. Perhaps you do not wish to put in your valuable time working on a new extractor, that is understandable. However Just because some asshats in china miss used your third party cat extractor does not mean that the community should be forever denied access to such a great tool in an updated form. Just my opinion.

[Stick 773]

I second that Icarus999; his vigilance of intellectual property infractions ought to be better; blanket denial as a knee jerk reaction will cost him in the long run- prevention is not always the cure.

[+gerwin 451]

I could not disagree more. A ton has changed since we last had access to the cat files. We have a brand new terrain engine at our disposal and not a clue of its inner workings, for us to even begin to utilize the new engine we must understand it. can you imagine what a guy like Stary could accomplish with that engine once he fully understood it.

I realize that you are concerned that you may piss TK off... on the flip side he is sure not showing any concern towards pissing off the people who have supported him, and bought every one of his titles. Perhaps you do not wish to put in your valuable time working on a new extractor, that is understandable. However Just because some asshats in china miss used your third party cat extractor does not mean that the community should be forever denied access to such a great tool in an updated form. Just my opinion.

 

It is more complicated then that, actually.

The CAT files are MUCH MUCH more difficult to open since that patch of around March 2011

Stary got what he needed, that is not the problem.

[+Stary 2,427]

exactly, it's the format for new terrains is as for today completely useless without some kind of assembly tools TK might have developed for him

 

old format makes one squish working decent map in days/weeks instead of months the new format seems to be

[Wrench 9,846]

don't know about that...it can STILL take months to get the terrain accurate (with reference to my OCD targeting habits!! )

[+Stary 2,427]

I was leaving you out of my eqation for comparision sake

[+streakeagle 871]

In TK's defense, he was even accused of stealing a third party shader effect for the improved afterburner effects of SF2.

Locking down the text files eliminates those kind of liabilities which could cost a lot of time and money in court even if you are innocent.

If you can't read his files, you can't make mods based on them, then turn around and claim those mods as your own IP and sue Third Wire.

The reason most games are locked down is to make sure the ones selling the games secure all profits possible from the game.

If end users are able to compete with and even surpass the source files, why would people buy the various expansions/DLC?

There were quite a few posts by people explaining that they only bought SFP1 and never any subsequent games because they were able to get any aircraft or map they wanted for free and if they ever upgraded to the SF2 series, they only bought one sim again for the same reasons.

From the very beginning, TK should have made SFP1 the "core" game and each release after that a module that added features unique to that module.

WoV: carrier operations.

WoE: clouds, 70s avionics.

etc.

 

As Jessie Jackson once said repeatedly in an SNL gameshow skit, "The question is moot!"

Nothing has really changed since I bought my first PC and flew the F-4E in Jane's USAF.

All I can do is settle for what's available and wait to see if things will improve.

On the bright side, both SF2 and DCS are still being actively developed, which means one or both have the potential to improve significantly over time.

Whereas, imagine if SFP1 had stopped without WoV and/or WoE ever being released?

I am sure there would have been fans similar to EAW still trying to wring every bit of potential out of the unchanging core code, but the majority would have moved on.

Sadly, given the lack of support for F-4 Phantoms, I probably would have been one of the ones still playing SFP1.

My F-4B flight model worked really well in SP2a... damn near text book performance right down to the instability at high AoA.

Instead, TK brought us a lot of improvements that were exciting to experience (and frustrating to debug!).

[+SkateZilla 49]

locking the cat prevents easy extraction by the modding community, thats it.

 

I know of at least 3 methods to get CAT contents from even locked Cats just using sheer Windows knowledge.

[+Stary 2,427]

I know of at least 3 methods to get CAT contents from even locked Cats just using sheer Windows knowledge.

watching the file contents via notepad is not the same as having access to the contents

[Wrench 9,846]

Instead, TK brought us a lot of improvements that were exciting to experience (and frustrating to debug!).

Couldn't have said it better!

 

here's another example, along those same lines...

 

Why does a terrain NOT work in one install (to wit: SF2, standard, all-is-everything) BUT...does work as designed in SF2:NA, when all the inis, callouts, water bmp, etc are setup FOR carrier basing???

Meaning: CubaOTC+ works perfectly in NA, but crashes/locks/jams/f***sup in SF2.

 

it IS the damndest thing!! And virtually impossible to run down

[+Stary 2,427]

some kind of NA.exe exclusive calls?

[Wrench 9,846]

that's what I thought, but Korea works perfectly in BOTH it's KAW stand-alone, and in SF2 (KAW folder built from the SF2.exe)

[+Stary 2,427]

have no idea to be honest, but m magic 8-ball tells me some things really depend on specific .exe

[+SkateZilla 49]

watching the file contents via notepad is not the same as having access to the contents

 

Close....

 

Think RAM, Page File, and DirectX Pipeline.

 

TBH the CATs themselves aren't really being locked, but the Extractor is being programmed to recognize and hide certain extensions.

 

have no idea to be honest, but m magic 8-ball tells me some things really depend on specific .exe

 

I Believe the SF2NA exe has more calls too,

 

 

As for the Lockdown annoyances.. I can careless right now about the game bugs, what annoys me most is the way everything is being handled/portrayed/presented to the community.

 

Small INI and DLL Fixes in Large 100+MB Patches that sneak in more CAT restrictions or more hardcoded features that we used to be able to tweak and modify at will,

 

Next month we'll have a 230MB patch to add Deploy-able 2-Ply Toilet paper to the evilcommbuilding_version2

 

 

It's obvious the man is tired of having new users register on his boards to complain that a certain mod killed his install.

Edited July 31, 2012 by SkateZilla

[eraser_tr 29]

Perhaps some kind of compromise can be worked out?

 

Since almost everything is made by people here, that anytime someone whines about a mod breaking their install to simply direct them here and we'll handle the support. He can stick it in an FAQ/big sticky post about it.

 

Modding is the biggest appeal of the series. I simply would have never bought every game in the series if it hadn't been for stumbling upon the mods, and I've seen many other people say the same.

[+SkateZilla 49]

not in TW's eyes it isnt, at least not anymore,

 

TW's perspective is the Scalability of the Game, and the fact that its not a Study Sim, but its also Not Ace Combat, so it appeals to both Audiences and the people that dont want to study a 900 Page Manual or have to fire off a salvo of 22 missiles at a Terrorist Bird-Of-Prey.

 

TBH, it's a good prespective,

 

but the users that try and run the sim on Laptops and Integrated Graphics, the users that complain that its still too hard for them, and the users that complain about mods killing their install seem to outnumber the users asking for access to DOCS, TOOLS, a little bit more complexity in certain area's, etc

[+Julhelm 266]

He's also changed his businessmodel from selling a moddable final product to the DLC model. I called this already back in 2011 when the DLC store was introduced. It is obvious that DLC is a non-trivial part of his revenue, or he wouldn't keep doing them. Locking down the game forces customers into buying his content since he can now hold a monopoly on visual quality.

[+Veltro2k 6,351]

I don't know what TK is doing, but he has and is certainly progressively changing his business model.

It is somewhat obvious that the game is heading more in the direction of MS Flight where you get all the mods you want via DLC.

 

 

 

 

I think its worse. FS allowed others to create MODS just as good if not better then stock. I was heavy into Janes FA when I first picked up my demo of SF way back then; I said this will never catch on..then I saw the work and effort is the SF sites like this one and the great work on planes weapons objects terrains ... I said wow I am going to purchase the full game and have continued with the Wings over and SF2. I even just purchased NA but regret it now.(((( the point is let’s face it TK can deny it all he wants , but this community saved his game and put allot of $$$$ into TK's pocket))))But as I like so many others are realizing Something has happened to TK..Is it greed? Jealousy? Advice from some other idiot? I don’t know..What I think If TK continues..As so many have done already I will join their ranks and look somewhere else. Also TK is leaving a huge hole that someone will fill and then his game can join the ranks of the Janes games that faded away.

[+SkateZilla 49]

MS Flight didnt allow Mods at all and was completely locked down.

It was like playing a console game on my PC.,

 

As for TW,

TK Already stated that Completely New planes would only be introduced in full releases/Expansion packs,

 

While DLC will be limited to Skins, Variants of Aircraft already done, etc.

 

He has no intention to try and match the THOUSANDS of Planes that community has done.

 

But we are closely approaching the point where Most of those THOUSANDS of planes will not even work correctly, if at all, with the engine.

 

The Community may just have to go the "YAP" route, and find the best build, and Stick to it, if we want new features in that build, find a way to implement them.

Edited July 31, 2012 by SkateZilla

[+Stary 2,427]

soo we go back o December 2010c level? I liked the sims at around that level most

 

naa, I just broke my own rule "never again invest in TW DLC" and bought that Kiwi Hallucination... I mean Mirage

 

 

locking... I don't like and I'm vocal about it -think of it -TK locked LODs -ok, nobiggie really, evil masterminds can still hook into Dx pipeline and pull whatever thay desire

 

BUT then came the fugly suprises like -.fx shaders, .lst lists

 

what's next? Certain .ini files so we can kiss our asses goobye?

 

(Damn we really need "thirdwire" display filter, they are watching man, they are watching us)

[+DanW 32]

"Something has happened to TK..Is it greed? Jealousy? Advice from some other idiot?"

 

He's saving up for a gold plated pony

[+SkateZilla 49]

I'll keep my SF2 NA Merged install for all the "new stuff",

 

But Im gonna keep a SF2Dec2010c

[+Stary 2,427]

that explains everything

 

I told you guys they're watching us

[+SkateZilla 49]

"Something has happened to TK..Is it greed? Jealousy? Advice from some other idiot?"

 

He's saving up for a gold plated pony

 

Too Many nights alone in the Evil Comm Building.

 

The gold pony will be in the next patch...

Edited July 31, 2012 by SkateZilla

[+SkateZilla 49]

what's next? Certain .ini files so we can kiss our asses goobye?

 

BMP files, so we cant reverse engineer our templates to make our own skins. <shrug>

Edited July 31, 2012 by SkateZilla