Exp3 News! (no, not really)

[+paulopanz 2,853]

I say bad. No answer at all.

 

Worse to close discussion http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB3w/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9440

 

How many costumers do you think Eric, Dave, Kevin and we all brought to TK?

 

This is not an answer.

 

We don't need bring Tk more money to make more android silly games.

 

So please lock this thread too, we don't need more foolish DLCs, we can make them by ourselves.

 

Long live CA!

[FalconC45 157]

interesting answer from TK indeed.

 

Falcon

[+Sundowner 4,548]

Well, he's done what everybody has wanted him to do..... you have an answer , even if its not what you wanted to hear.

[Murphy'S 15]

Well, he's done what everybody has wanted him to do..... you have an answer , even if its not what you wanted to hear.

 

That's all we're asking for, nothing less, nothing more......

[Centurion-1 1,228]

Man, if he is that much in the red, why not start up a kickstarter for exp 3. Crowd-funding, and whatnot. I'd gladly pitch in 3x what it will cost to download if it means more features than otherwise would be made. Also, why not apply for Steam greenlight? getting on steam would be really big, especially if he'd put the titles on sale for something like 5USD for a limited time.

 

It really is too bad. Well, I second Paulo, the game is what it is, we can make it as good as we want.

 

Back to work.

[+paulopanz 2,853]

Man, if he is that much in the red, why not start up a kickstarter for exp 3. Crowd-funding, and whatnot. I'd gladly pitch in 3x what it will cost to download if it means more features than otherwise would be made. Also, why not apply for Steam greenlight? getting on steam would be really big, especially if he'd put the titles on sale for something like 5USD for a limited time.

 

It really is too bad. Well, I second Paulo, the game is what it is, we can make it as good as we want.

 

Back to work.

 

I'm in. But no more our money for mobile games .....

[+hi ho silver 179]

Well that was a load of bollo~ks.His been at it for years and Hes' stlll not fixed F5 screen judder ,spinning clouds and them bloody trees .Waisted time and money on iceland terrain and DLC's this community has done more for this sim for free just look in the down load section just jam packed full of great terrain,s ,aircraft and other stuff ....

[tn_prvteye 36]

Well, I think I hear the Fat Lady warming up backstage, folks. As much as I hate to say it, TK's post doesn't bode well for the PC version. I can't honestly see him making enough bank on the mobile game to get out of debt AND release anything for PC. Too many other sim developers have quit over less trouble. Sad, but that's the way things are going.

 

Not a bad run for a small, very specific genre company. I'll place my wager now: Thirdwire will no longer be in the sim business by the end of the year. He will either go full-mobile, or he'll move on to something else. Can't blame him, but that's my bet.

[JediMaster 451]

All I can say is...how in the world did the SF2 aircraft cost that much more than SFP1s?? Someone is making it and the cost is 100% labor. So are the planes taking THAT much more time to make, or do people just demand more money for their time now?

When on the one hand it seems TK is the only coder, you have to wonder if he's overcharging himself or something???? Is he outsourcing these things to people who imagine he's pulling in tons of money? Looking at what modders do here for free how can these kinds of prices be justifiable? Naturally he's not going to tell us the source of all his costs, but it seems to me that if he's being totally honest with us he's getting screwed on his costs.

So SF2NA cost far more to make than any previous title, which I can understand based on how long it was in development, as for programming costs = time X manpower. The problem is other than the few NA-specific skin DLCs he's not trying to recoup that investment with more lower-cost-development NA-related content. Look at houses like EA and Activision that nickel and dime their customers with a batch of 4 maps for $15!

 

He also seems too risk-averse when it comes to marketing.

Has anyone seen any mention of a TW sim ANYWHERE that wasn't a word-of-mouth post? He has an active FB page, but I'm not sure how often people "stumble" into it and how often they need to actively search it out. My wife has been doing some FB marketing and she's learned how to spend a few bucks here and there and you can target your ads pretty well to people who would be your consumer base.

 

For grins, I did a google search for "F-14 sim". Top was an images link, where from what I can determine there are NO shots of NA or ANY TW sims. Next is a YouTube link to some guy using an F-14 is MSFS I think. Then comes a link to 7.5 yr old thread in Ubi's forums asking why there aren't any F-14 combat sims, and THEN a link to a SimHQ thread from 18 months ago asking when TK's sim is going to finally come out!

What's the last link on page 1? Amazon's page for buying F-14 Fleet Defender from 20 years ago!!! In fact, search for F-14 Tomcat simulator and you'll get IRIS' F-14 they're doing for DCS in the middle of the page.

 

Thirdwire? Not there at all. I was unable to find a single way to word "F-14" or "Tomcat" and "sim" with or without combat or flying to get to Thirdwire's site. Isn't this a MAJOR problem? No wonder his sales aren't good enough.

 

TK needs to spend a few bucks for a marketing student (don't bother with the pros, they will do the same quality work for more money and try to convince him to go overboard) to SEO his site, get some videos on YT to rank, and get the word out on FB. Once people get NA, that can be the "gateway drug" to the rest of his series, but with the recent rerelease of Top Gun in 3D this is the best time for him to be trying to get the word out.

 

I've been attending meetings at the unemployment office about starting your own business, and there are certain things that every business must do.

 

You MUST target a niche, no matter big or small. TK did that.

You MUST provide a product that appeals to that niche. TK did that, although I don't think he necessarily did market research or any of that banal stuff.

You MUST have good customer service. TK has managed that by and large (no one's perfect).

Finally, you MUST get sales, and that means getting the word out to your target audience that you EXIST. Without sales, the rest is irrelevant. Great product or bad, good service or crap, if no one buys it that stuff doesn't matter.

Getting the word out = marketing and TW's marketing being 90% word of mouth has proven, once and for all, that it can no longer provide the sales needed to offset his recent cost increases. So he needs to market more.

 

BTW, not having bothered to look at it with my phone, does SFA have any backlinks or other info that would lead its users back to TW's site and the PC versions? Beyond someone seeing "Thirdwire" and choosing to google it themselves that is?

[MigBuster 2,863]

Still awaiting the iOS version of Afterburner myself to try it - would make sense to include adverts for the PC games though -that would be great marketing for TW - the mobile market with PC functionality has come at the right time - billions of devices and new free business model -1.2 million downloads already says it all.

 

A predictable post IMO:

• The mobile market is where the money is - so thats where all development will be going.
  
• Future PC games and probably new patches for SF2 will turn it more like the mobile games
  
• Modding will be removed/limited
  
• EXP3? - if it comes out might turn your sim into something you wont like (would have to see)
  

 

I cant complain really - and no one else can - there is a lot missing and the new terrain needs fixing - but they have provided a lot over the years including many personal requests.

 

 

I would say RIP to the PC version we currently know - and on the bright side at least you wont have to worry about mods being broken by patches.

 

[AvalancheDiode 0]

Now I feel guilty that I hasn't bought every single product by TW.... yet.

[Stratos 3,177]

Seems the series will not get updates the cmmunity here will like.

[+Dave 2,318]

The modders have propped him up for 10 years, now he is moving on. I'm glad he finally answered the question but in this humble modders opinion, stick a fork in the PC series, its done. Now its up to the modders to keep it going. Fact of life. He said exactly what I thought he was going to. He is a businessman and the phrase customer loyalty alludes him.

[+paulopanz 2,853]

Well it seems that android market isn't a so good market. I'm sorry for Tk.

 

I have D/L both the games on my Galaxy S III but I'm thinking to remove.

Realy not fun for me even if free.

 

So I'm not interested in a payware PC version even if moddable.

[Centurion-1 1,228]

Yeah, I haven't tried the mobile games but they seem to have the potential to be entertaining for... 3 minutes. However: A Free-to-Play multiplayer SF-2 that makes you buy all the planes á la World of Tanks, with microtransaction financing. Man, that would be my wet dream, and could bring in some serious dough. No flight sim beats SF-2s fun factor imho!

[CowboyTodd41 133]

All I can say is...how in the world did the SF2 aircraft cost that much more than SFP1s?? Someone is making it and the cost is 100% labor. So are the planes taking THAT much more time to make, or do people just demand more money for their time now?

When on the one hand it seems TK is the only coder, you have to wonder if he's overcharging himself or something???? Is he outsourcing these things to people who imagine he's pulling in tons of money? Looking at what modders do here for free how can these kinds of prices be justifiable? Naturally he's not going to tell us the source of all his costs, but it seems to me that if he's being totally honest with us he's getting screwed on his costs.

So SF2NA cost far more to make than any previous title, which I can understand based on how long it was in development, as for programming costs = time X manpower. The problem is other than the few NA-specific skin DLCs he's not trying to recoup that investment with more lower-cost-development NA-related content. Look at houses like EA and Activision that nickel and dime their customers with a batch of 4 maps for $15!

 

He also seems too risk-averse when it comes to marketing.

Has anyone seen any mention of a TW sim ANYWHERE that wasn't a word-of-mouth post? He has an active FB page, but I'm not sure how often people "stumble" into it and how often they need to actively search it out. My wife has been doing some FB marketing and she's learned how to spend a few bucks here and there and you can target your ads pretty well to people who would be your consumer base.

 

For grins, I did a google search for "F-14 sim". Top was an images link, where from what I can determine there are NO shots of NA or ANY TW sims. Next is a YouTube link to some guy using an F-14 is MSFS I think. Then comes a link to 7.5 yr old thread in Ubi's forums asking why there aren't any F-14 combat sims, and THEN a link to a SimHQ thread from 18 months ago asking when TK's sim is going to finally come out!

What's the last link on page 1? Amazon's page for buying F-14 Fleet Defender from 20 years ago!!! In fact, search for F-14 Tomcat simulator and you'll get IRIS' F-14 they're doing for DCS in the middle of the page.

 

Thirdwire? Not there at all. I was unable to find a single way to word "F-14" or "Tomcat" and "sim" with or without combat or flying to get to Thirdwire's site. Isn't this a MAJOR problem? No wonder his sales aren't good enough.

 

TK needs to spend a few bucks for a marketing student (don't bother with the pros, they will do the same quality work for more money and try to convince him to go overboard) to SEO his site, get some videos on YT to rank, and get the word out on FB. Once people get NA, that can be the "gateway drug" to the rest of his series, but with the recent rerelease of Top Gun in 3D this is the best time for him to be trying to get the word out.

 

I've been attending meetings at the unemployment office about starting your own business, and there are certain things that every business must do.

 

You MUST target a niche, no matter big or small. TK did that.

You MUST provide a product that appeals to that niche. TK did that, although I don't think he necessarily did market research or any of that banal stuff.

You MUST have good customer service. TK has managed that by and large (no one's perfect).

Finally, you MUST get sales, and that means getting the word out to your target audience that you EXIST. Without sales, the rest is irrelevant. Great product or bad, good service or crap, if no one buys it that stuff doesn't matter.

Getting the word out = marketing and TW's marketing being 90% word of mouth has proven, once and for all, that it can no longer provide the sales needed to offset his recent cost increases. So he needs to market more.

 

BTW, not having bothered to look at it with my phone, does SFA have any backlinks or other info that would lead its users back to TW's site and the PC versions? Beyond someone seeing "Thirdwire" and choosing to google it themselves that is?

 

This is really eye opening. I guess it goes back to the old "location, location, location." What frustrates me is there are plenty of now electronic gadget friendly baby boomers who grew up with all of these jets twirling around their houses and they would kill for a sim like this. My dad was practically drooling at the mouth when I was trapping an F-4K on the Ark Royal. His eyes get about the size of dinner plates anytime there's an F-100. There's ways to advertise these things without being insanely cost prohibitive.

[Stratos 3,177]

Maybe is a crazy idea, but maybe we can try to get a 3d party developer contract in order to get the features we are interested. Using a Kickstarter style method to gather money. We will need someone to sign a contract with TK delimiting what we can and what we can't and of course signing a confidenciality clausule, then we can add the most wanted features. If he needs the money that bad, maybe we can get a deal.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Stratos

[+KnightWolf45 1,147]

at this point i im starting to think that its was better that TK would just abandone PC version so that it becomes abandowere well free to mess around whit.

that we the CA guys can roll our slaves and get to making this into better unlocked moddeble sim!

if he lock mods in the next patch or Exp i wont get and stick watt i have now.

i can mod has his now for the next 13 years or more whitout for DLCs patch or EXPs

 

my two cents

[+Kulbit80 1,399]

It's not as bad at this point. I can wait even year or two for 'really' good new PC product. Will see...

[Carlos_Tex 2]

TK is pretty much immune to any suggestion that involves more investment in his PC games. I can understand his view, he doesn't want to take any risks. Even collaborating with the community as i suggested is more loss than gain for him. He just doesn't want any help from anyone outside and do things his own way. I'm not criticizing him, it's just his option. All we can do is wait his mobile business is a huge success and that we can have something more on the PC side.

[+Brain32 265]

TK is pretty much immune to any suggestion that involves more investment in his PC games.

I think he simply got tired of it and that's it...fine with me, he does not owe me anything...

[+Sundowner 4,548]

Just been nosing around the Google play site & I see Strike Fighters (Android) has had an update which seems to of screwed up the game a little........some things never change......LOL

[+Stary 2,426]

for me it seems TK says bye to forther SF development, at least code-wise. Exp 3 might be done eventually, but just as sort of bigger DLC.

 

@Harold: as for planes cost vs series 1 ones? I think it's utter bulls**t* and I think TK isn't fully honest with us (aka lying)

*what, he/his modeler pays 100 bucks (to whom I ask) per extra poly?

 

Development costs too high? HIRE F_KING PR AND CGI STUDENTS MAN! They'll do it as part of their studies work for 1% or the pro.

 

As for all that "had to sell cars, take debts, sell mother and a cat" I don't take it sorry; again, I stopped believing to what TK says long ago. It seems to me he says that to make us, modding core PC base, feel guilty for worsening his personal situation by forcing him further PC developmnet. Something to think about, eh?

 

final note: as for unauthorized code breaches/changes, believe me, in some time these will have to pop up (can't change human nature) so maybe Dave go to SimHQ and write a nice "forgive me" letter to mlracing, huh? I would but I'm banned there

[Spinners 15,972]

It's really not worth getting one's knickers in a knot...

[MigBuster 2,863]

Just been nosing around the Google play site & I see Strike Fighters (Android) has had an update which seems to of screwed up the game a little........some things never change......LOL

 

Its a bit of a pain apparently - a lot of changes are made with each OS update - and calls the program needs are sometime removed or changed which breaks the app - everyones in the same boat and its not always easy to fix.

 

Mobile gaming is a lot easier to support the user side - but with updates you still have the same pitfalls including the bloat that gets added to ensure your phone is slower after every update - wonder where they got that idea from. :)