Croatian air force MiG-21 replacement

[Stipe]

How about the T-50 Golden Eagle?

[JediMaster]

It's not a truly proven design, but it offers F-16-like abilities without the price and would probably be worth looking into.

[Viggen]

I'd say that the recently retired JAS 39A/Bs from Sweden or F-16A/B MLUs would suit Croatia's needs. Realistically though, I think Hawks or M-346s would be better for Croatia's budget. We're probably going to see those MiG-21s flying for a couple more years instead, I'd imagine.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Viggen

[Stipe]

Here I have a bit of a coincidence, I build model kits and I have made a FICTIONAL "MiG-21BisD+" (fictional modernization of the MiG-21BisD). So if they are going to fly into the 21st century this is how the they should look like.

 

Edited February 17, 2013 by Stipe

[Stipe]

"Breaking news" Croatia is going to modernise its mig-21s

 

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/158437.html

[Stratos]

Any idea of what those planes will get? Modern cockpits and weapons?

 

If Serbia ever modernize the Fulcrums will have a pretty capable plane too.

[Derk]

Great, maybe we should see the MiG's on some airshows then !!!!!  :):)

[Stipe]

Any idea of what those planes will get? Modern cockpits and weapons?

If Serbia ever modernize the Fulcrums will have a pretty capable plane too.

They will get (probably) partially glass cockpit and maybe R-73 and R-27 capability Edited September 14, 2013 by Stipe

[Brain32]

They will get (probably) partially glass cockpit and maybe R-73 and R-27 capability

 

Wouldn't count on it, especially on the R-73/27. What we are aiming for is simple service life-extension project and this is what we signed with Ukrspecexport

 

Don't forget that the deal is worth only 80 million Croatian kunas(about 14 million US $), you really can not expect wonders for that amount of money...

[JediMaster]

A new cockpit would easily cost more than $1m per plane because of all the work to take out the old stuff, not just the new stuff.

[Gepard]

Depends on what level the modernization is.

I guess a HUD and one MFD like in MiG-21-93. The question is, which radar they will use. The russian Kopjo, italian Grifo or israeli Elta?

Depend which weapon they want to use.

[Stipe]

Wouldn't count on it, especially on the R-73/27. What we are aiming for is simple service life-extension project and this is what we signed with Ukrspecexport

 

Don't forget that the deal is worth only 80 million Croatian kunas(about 14 million US $), you really can not expect wonders for that amount of money...

The croatian MiGs already have the capability to carry R-73s and the radar only needs a few tweeks and a new helmit sight to carry R-27s

Depends on what level the modernization is.

I guess a HUD and one MFD like in MiG-21-93. The question is, which radar they will use. The russian Kopjo, italian Grifo or israeli Elta?

Depend which weapon they want to use.

There is no public information on that subject, even here in Croatia.

A new cockpit would easily cost more than $1m per plane because of all the work to take out the old stuff, not just the new stuff.

The new cockpit wouldent cost more than 1M$ becouse of the previous upgrades to the navigation and comunication made in Romania 10 years earlier

New paint...

 

[Stipe]

The one thing I'm wondering about is, will the new MiGs have a one piece or the old 3 piece canopy? Probably the old 3-piece

[exhausted]

Phantoms would be a good idea. Reworks on wing spars and engines should be a requisite. The plus is that spares should be widely available.

 

The F-4 would be a nice upgrade from the MiG reworks.

[Stratos]

The one thing I'm wondering about is, will the new MiGs have a one piece or the old 3 piece canopy? Probably the old 3-piece

Never seen a one piece canopy, have pics?

[logan4]

The mig21-93(/97), IAI mig21-2000 and the HAL Bison has the one pice windshield (probably that what he meant).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sheeju_mig21.JPG

 

Last info I heard Serbia is currently negotiating for one dozen of MiG29M/M2. 

[Gepard]

Never seen a one piece canopy, have pics?

 

Not canopy, only one piece windshield.

 

[Stipe]

Now we are stuck with this piece of crap again...

Don't get me wrong, I love the 21 but it is basicly the same tin can we had in the 90's (except maybe for the F.O.F identificafion system)

[MigBuster]

I take it that's the upgraded version?

[Stipe]

I take it that's the upgraded version?

Yes that is, indeed, the "upgraded" version...

[Gepard]

Upgrade made in Romania. That says it all. Romania is very well known for "high quality".

[Stipe]

The 2003 "upgrade" was done in Romania but this time we chose Ukraine, but that was also a bad choice...they were given a 2.7 mil. € penalty because of the late delivery and all kinds of shit... A fiew months ago an "upgraded" MiG was going to land in Zadar but the front landing gear would not open...[note : on the same day an old (from the 2003 "upgrade") one crashed near Zagreb because of the engine catching fire, but the pilot didin't eject before he got to an unpopulated area].

[acidgraph]

The Romanian Mig-21 LanceR has an Elta El/M-2032 Radar, datalink, HUD with HOTAS and employs AIM-9, R-77, Python III, LGBs, Lightning LP and is basically a joint upgrade made in Romania with Israel tech. Is this the version Croatia got in 2003 ?

I've seen them in airshows making a lot more tight maneuvers than an "old" Mig-21 does.

Gepard, pls don't be so quick at bashing stuff :) 

http://www.mig-21.de/english/technicaldataupgrades.htm

[Stipe]

No, the Croatian MiGs just got lightly overhauled, the F.O.F. Identification gear and Honywell comunication equipment...

[acidgraph]

Ah, I understand. The digital equipment gave some new life in the old airframe making it more responsive and capable and giving it the abilities to cary western/eastern weapons on a new universal pylon but this can't compensate for the frame's age and engine. The 21's time has passed even with all the new improvements made to it. I made earlier a mistake, wanted to write R-73, and not R-77 as the employed missiles.  And as an intresting fact is that the LanceR was one of the first planes to employ the Israeli made DASH III HMD helmet in the 90's. The upgrade was pretty expensive though.