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Bandit 6 o'clock

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What is you preferred maneuver when there is a bandit right behind you on your tail and you have to react immediately?

 

I always make a hard left or right turn (it doesn't matter with AI, but with human opponent it's better to make right turn, given that opponent is right handed), and if bandit has a better turning rate than me I start making barrel rolls using rudder, and after few barrel rolls I end up doing a split S.

 

Maybe not the best tactic, since there are aggressive tactics that place you quickly in position to shoot at bandit, like tactics involving bandit overshooting, but they are also very risky.

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I brake an break and let them pass by...then i try to recover the Phantom from the spin. With some luck, he will die of laughter.

 

Now seriously, depending of the bandit. Maybe dive and run, maybe turn into him, maybe just light the burners while he lags behind shouting in bad vietnamese-arab-russian. I´m not turning into a MiG-17 in a Phantom, neither will i try to outrun a MiG-21 with a Mystere

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Yes, it depends on the type of bandit.

 

But let's say bandit's plane is very similar in performance to yours. You cannot outrun him, out turn him or out climb him?

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Comes down to what they are driving and what I am driving if for example a Mig-17 or 15 and I am driving a F-4 then it's easy take it into the vertical or plug the burners and run... F-4 vs Mig-29 or Su-27 then it gets really tricky... Split S. Also depends what load I am carrying... and what mission I am on...

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hit the brakes and he'll fly right by!

 

I actually do that sometimes, but I won't choose it unless my speed is low and I'm too low.When I do have some energy to spend, I have plenty of options.Hard left-right breaks, Split S/Immelman, pitch up and punch in burners, or simply punch in burners and get an even higher speed to go out of range.

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It depends both on the enemy plane and my own. Speedbrakes combined with barrel roll/ sideslip, and hope in an enemy overshoot, is a generic tactics, but I wouldn't use it with a plane whose speedbrakes are too slow to spread. Flying at altitude a heavy plane vs a lighter one (F-4 vs MiG-17 typically), I would give dive a chance. Flying a MiG-17 vs a F-4, I'd rather try the tight turn. Flying a MiG-15 vs anything, I'd never try the tight turn on any account (!), vertical climb if sufficent kinetic energy work fine; if not for some reason, speedbrakes work quite well.

 

Also important is the enemy armament. Burners I'd never use before an enemy in my six potentially equipped with decent IR missiles, I would even throw a few flares during the maneuvers if having one finger still available. Against an enemy without or with but poor IR missiles, no such restraint. Against an enemy with good missiles, it is important to get out of the lethal cone ASAP; boldness can pay as much as it can put an end to your fight. Against an enemy with unreliable missiles, high G maneuvers will either dissuade him from firing them, or have him waste them (depending on how your own plane can execute such maneuvers). Against an closing enemy with guns only, the priority is to spoil his line of fire at once by frantic unpredictable maneuvers, and have him waste ammo, then only to search a way out.

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Against any MiG-15 or 17, rolling and pulling will gain you some separation, as both those models have crappy roll rates when compared to their western counterparts. Diving also forces them to pull out before you do, as they both also have issues pulling out of a near-Mach dive.

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I second what Fubar512 posted; my standard resort is to force a scissors at low altitude; if the terrain don't get him, I will.

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Hell if it's a Mig... I just punch the burners and go through the roof. They won't catch me.

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Two words......energy state. If you got high energy state, go vertical nose high. Low energy state, go vertical nose low and get a higher energy state (if you have the altitude). Lots of flares and chaff to confuse the issue. MiGs will outturn you if you try to dogfight them.....so don't. Fly to your jet's strengths, not to the bad guy's strengths. If you are out of control of the situation, extend and re-engage later. Give your maneuvers time to take effect. Flailing away in the same spot just changes the enemy sight picture and not much else. You're still dog meat. My strongest advice is to not let the bad guy get in that position in the first place.............. :blink:

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What is you preferred maneuver when there is a bandit right behind you on your tail and you have to react immediately?

 

I always make a hard left or right turn (it doesn't matter with AI, but with human opponent it's better to make right turn, given that opponent is right handed), and if bandit has a better turning rate than me I start making barrel rolls using rudder, and after few barrel rolls I end up doing a split S.

 

Maybe not the best tactic, since there are aggressive tactics that place you quickly in position to shoot at bandit, like tactics involving bandit overshooting, but they are also very risky.

 

I'd turn on him to open his lead angle.

 

Depending on my airspeed and altitude i'd also use the vertical (split S), if he is closing on me, he has at least 100 kt of speed advantage (a proper closing speed does not exceed 150 kt) which translates by a larger turn radius, so this generally leave me some time to recover energy using the vertical, then when i have enough energy i'll go vertical.

 

If he comes from the right, turn right and left for left, be aware of your airspeed and what your aircraft needs to achieve a good climb rate, if you don't have enough after a hard turn then you got to think acquiring the energy for it by diving as well.

 

In short you need to manage your energy from the moment you roll to turn and even before you start pulling gs and be aware of your airspeed and altitude at all time.

 

If your aircraft has a better climb rate than your opponent then use it to later, swap altitude for energy.

 

Two words......energy state. If you got high energy state, go vertical nose high. Low energy state, go vertical nose low and get a higher energy state (if you have the altitude). Lots of flares and chaff to confuse the issue. MiGs will outturn you if you try to dogfight them.....so don't. Fly to your jet's strengths, not to the bad guy's strengths. If you are out of control of the situation, extend and re-engage later. Give your maneuvers time to take effect. Flailing away in the same spot just changes the enemy sight picture and not much else. You're still dog meat. My strongest advice is to not let the bad guy get in that position in the first place.............. :blink:

 

Damned, i should have reads this before posting. Proper way to say it.

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Its always good to use burrel roll in that situation. When there is traker can do like this: Drastically from afterburner leave vertically upwards. Throttle down there, put on the aeroplane wing and pedal to the board. After turning head on one side to find the enemy and to dive into him for 6.

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Always, Always, ALWAYS break into your attacker. In the most simplest terms "match roll axis and pull", which means to roll your wing perpendicular to direction your attacker is coming from and pull the stick back. Essentially this is "pulling up" on a 3 dimensional plane. Of course, given what was said earlier, you DON'T want to do this against a MiG-15/17, unless he is booking it at over 450-500 knots. One thing I like to do in the Tomcat, something it is known at being good at, is to break into the attack, once the attacker has overshot his angle, light the burners and pull up into a half loop pirouette, and then drop down on him like a ton of bricks from above. Also seems to work pretty well in the Super Hornet. :beach:  

Edited by Kyot54

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Besides the vertical aspect, it depends on speed. If i'm faster, i break away, unload an run, if i'm slower and tighter turning, i break into him. If neither...stall it. Did so with unslatted Phantoms against faster going Floggers and it works if you can recover from the spin

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If enough altitude hard left or right diving turn at max. mil power....

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Always, Always, ALWAYS break into your attacker. In the most simplest terms "match roll axis and pull", which means to roll your wing perpendicular to direction your attacker is coming from and pull the stick back. Essentially this is "pulling up" on a 3 dimensional plane. Of course, given what was said earlier, you DON'T want to do this against a MiG-15/17, unless he is booking it at over 450-500 knots. One thing I like to do in the Tomcat, something it is known at being good at, is to break into the attack, once the attacker has overshot his angle, light the burners and pull up into a half loop pirouette, and then drop down on him like a ton of bricks from above. Also seems to work pretty well in the Super Hornet. :beach:  

Sounds interesting, is this another aggressive way of doing the ever famous pitch pulse and do you have a video of this?

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