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For those advocating a new patch for FE2, have you considered all the ramifications if TK does update FE2 ??? He has said several times over on TW when asked, that it will most likely break existing mods if he updated the game!!!

 

Currently FE2:

 

1. Plays very smoothly.

 

2. Has no major bugs that break the game.

 

3. Allows you to almost fly the entire map.

 

4. Is “unlocked” and allows you to mod almost anything in the game.

 

5. Clouds at correct height.

 

 

If FE2 is patched like the currently SF2 series:

 

1. Will not play smoothly (I know because I have both the Jan11 and Jul12 games and where the heavily modded SF2 Jan11 games are as smooth as glass at 60 FPS, the stock SF2 Jul12 games continuously stutter at the same 60 FPS. Both versions are on the same PC, Win7 x64, Intel i7 975, ATI 6970, 12 GB Ram, so it’s not the PC).

 

2. TK is always “fixing” new bugs for each of his new SF2 patches, and when he does, he always introduces new bugs that have to be “fixed” in the next patch.

 

3. Has reduced the area that you can fly on the SF2 maps, i.e. the “walls” are further from the edge and you cannot fly to places at the edge of the map like earlier patches, so targets, airfields, etc. are no longer accessible on older maps.

 

4. Has locked various portions of the SF2 games so you can no longer mod as much as the older SF2 games.

 

5. Increased the SF2 clouds to double the realistic height, which will definately effect how the game is played. In case you never noticed, FE2 actually blocks the AI and your sight through the clouds (unlike some other flight games) so you can hide in or behind the clouds like in reality.

 

 

 

This just proves the old saying that “newer is not always better, just newer”. So my question to all these people who keep asking TK to update the game, why do you want the game updated if it will create more problems than we currently have ???

 

A. I have seen people ask for an updated naval portion of the game on TW, and I agree that it would be nice. But remember, WW1 air to sea combat was few and far between, so is it worth it to break the rest of the game for something that really did not happen often ???

 

B. I have also seen where people have asked for the campaign weather to be fixed, I created a mod that would accomplish that without patching the game and it is in the FE2 download section, so again I ask if breaking the game is worth something that already has a work around ???

 

C. Who is going to go through and update all these “broken mods” that TK says will probably be broke if he updates FE2 ??? There has been thousands of hours put into these mods and some of the original modders are not even active in FE/FE2 anymore, so that just means the rest of us must stop moving forward on new mods to fix old mods, if they can even be "fixed" in the new patch.

 

 

 

In closing, I again ask, why do you want to break something that works (FE2) for a couple of items that are not central to a WW1 flight game, even if they would be nice to have ??? Remember one of the greatest strengths of the TW series (SF2/FE2) was the ability to almost mod the game to what ever you wanted, but that has been severally reduced in the currentl SF2 series and I would hate to see that happen for FE2 too.

Edited by Panama Red

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Yeah, I agree that maybe FE2 should be simply considered "done" and let modders do what they can do.

 

Besides, after multiple patches in the months after NA's release, it's been almost a year since the last one for SF2 anyway. To think he'll go back and spend time on FE2, which is far older, when he's not even addressing things in SF2 is the height of unrealistic expectations.

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If there ever was another patch the only thing I could think would be to improve multi core performance because not sure it fully made it over - nothing else should be changed IMO to preserve the stable

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All that needs to be fixed is broken random weather generation problem in campaign. It cant break any mods. Must be very easy code change. Well TK even not spent minute to answer that request on his forum. I bought all of his sims and packs but I am done now.

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ataribaby:

You do not understand, once TK decides to do a patch, he will change everything HE WANTS to change, not what we want to change as evident by the sad state of SF2. So when he patches FE2, he will bring it in line with the SF2 series and that means all the problems associated with SF2 now will be in FE2.

 

With TK, it will be ALL or NOTHING patch, and I prefer to have none of the problems with SF2. By the way, did you even try the random Campaign Weather mod ???

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well said PR!!

 

as one of the main modders in the SF2 series, I can certainly state that PR has hit the nail on the head. More gets borked than gets fixed. While FE is a 'causal diversion for me', it work great as is.

 

there's an old Jewish saying that applies here

 

"if it works, don't fix it"

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After a zillion FMs I nearly had a heart attack after reading the topic name, go figure! Please, don't touch the game!!!!!!!!!

  • Like 4

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Please don't get TK started down this road. Yes, there are things that would be nice to have included, but, as Panama so perfectly points out, he would only add them in his usual way, by breaking a lot of things that the modders here have spent countless hours on, so at the very best it would be, "row east by day, and west by night." I know it sounds absurd, but this sim is better off left to the modders here, than to involve TK in it again. They'll do a better job of it. If the dog bites when it's awake, let it sleep...

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The best thing about FE for me is the modding. Modders have ben able to "work arounds" for a lot of things that were not possible in the original game.

 

If TK were to make a patch, he would have to standardize some of those things, and that would break a lot of the work-around solutions people have come up with. So I believe that it's wise for TK to leave it alone.

 

I think we should all thank TK for essentially giving us the game to use as we see fit!

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I like my FE2 just as it is. This thread reminds me of my Wings of Prey game. That is an amazingly good WWII sim but I stopped using it 3 years ago when one of the updates (1.0.3.7) from Gaiijin resulted in it not working on my system yet AGAIN! I just reinstalled it and it took a couple of emails to tech support this week to even download the latest version (1.0.5.1) and 24.5gb. I wonder what the next update will do to this install. Some of the initial things that users asked to be fixed still have not been either (cockpit views in bombers). Meanwhile the company has released open beta of War Thunder. They justify the many bugs with ït is only a beta release this time.

 

You guys are so right, make games open to serious modders and let them fix things. Well done all you modders!

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I understand the complexity of fixing or changing code. One thing effects another or negates something else. But it would be nice to see a patch to fix a few things that are out of our reach. The weather for one would be a huge fix. Allowing single aircraft element in the formations.INI for those lone hunters in the early years. It would be nice to add different aircraft in the AirUnit parameters in the campaign mode too. Since most Jasta's used a mixed bunch of aircraft at any given time. And Shipping! Get shipping to work right. Fix the Movement.INI for the different terrains. Oh and bring back the Damaged engine sound. They are other fixes that would be welcomed. We don't need a Expansion Pack or Upgrades. Just fix up some of the old stuff. We are all in agreement that we'll do the rest. My two cents.

Edited by quack74
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I have no dispute on what you are saying quack74 and I would love to see these things too, but unfortunately that is not the way TK works.

 

When TK makes a patch for FE2, he will go the way of SF2 and if you own SF2, you can see the results. It is a constant battle of one step forward and one step back as he fixes several things and breaks several more things, all the while "locking down" more and more items that you used to be able to mod. It is not particularly the "fixing and breaking" things that bother me the most, it is the "locking down" items that bothers me since the main strength of FE/FE2 versus the other two major WW1 flight games is the ability to mod what you want compared to what you can not mod in those games.

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Well, TK can or cannot make the patch an we can or cannot install the patch.... :qt:

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Well don't get me wrong, I am very content with my FE2 install(s). I for one wouldn't want to change or lose ANY of it. I sure as heck wouldn't install anything new that would compromise all the work I have put into my mods. Most of the things wrong with FE2 are things that used to work for the original FE. The code has already been written, just deleted for some reason or another. I'm sure TK could find away to fix these minor issues for us without wrecking our installs. But I completely understand that it would be very time consuming to get it right and for what?, to make 20 or so people happy? I can understand why he wont spend the time or money. So like I said I can live with what I have. As you all said before, there are some great modders here that have brought this sim to an almost unrecognizable state then it's original release. I find this sim to be not just a game but my hobby as well. All the others to me are just games. Bring Back Our Changing Weather TK!

Edited by quack74

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It's all likely academic anyway, as there's probably no chance of a patch; either a limited one designed to (eg) restore campaign weather variability or better facilitate naval ops, or the sort that Panama red rightly fears.

 

I would have hoped that TK would have known better than to issue a patch for FE2 (in particular, and notwithstanding what happened with the 'mainstream' SF2 sims) that seriously risked breaking many mods. If - IF - that was the sort of patch we'd have got, likely better no patch at all.

 

But FE Gold/FE2 is a truly great WW1 sim as it now stands. What more it needed, beyond the original patches, the modders have mostly already provided, and are still adding to, at a rate which keeps it fresh.

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My concern is there are people over at TW that are asking TK to update FE2 and he has said at least twice "that it will most likely will break existing mods".

 

Now if TK has already warned everybody what will probably happen, why are some people still speculating that this will not happen ??? He is the developer and he should know what will probably happen since FE2 is based off SF2 and it did break existing mods when he updated SF2 over the years.

 

As a result, what some people are betting on is that something may not happen, when the person is charge tells you that it most likely will happen !!!

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"Well, TK can or cannot make the patch an we can or cannot install the patch...."

 

ojcar:

1. As you know when TK patches a game, he only sells the new patched game, so only the people who have the current game do not have to worry about any new problems that will be introduced, all new buyers are shafted.

 

2. If you are following SF2, you can see where all the new WW2 Plane_data.ini's are not compatible with the original SF1 WW2 planes (just ask Wrench about that).

 

3. With that in mind (and TK does the same thing to FE2 as he did to SF2, and he has already implied that will happen with his "broken mod" statement), which game are you going to make your new Plane_data.ini's for, FE1, current FE2 or the updated FE2 ???

 

4. If as implied by TK that the old will not work with the new, are you going to go back and make a whole new set of FMs just for the new people who do not have access to the current FE2 version ???

 

 

It is problems like this that happen when you open the FE2 update "can of worms" that has already happened in SF2 and there is no guessing if this will happen, because it has already happened in SF2.

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Good points, Panama Red, I didn't though about the new people, as I tend to think we are a dozen of players worlwide, with all the bunch of WWI players flying ROF or OFF, but you're right. A new patch will break a lot of stuff and it will be a disaster.

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Depends on what people mean or understand by 'patch the game'. In the statement quoted, TW was likely meaning 'patch, in the same sense as the other SF2 titles'. But that's NOT what's being asked for, methinks - which is a limited patch, that specifically does NOT break most mods, but does stuff like restore variable campaign weather and somehow support naval ops; adding seasonal terrains back in would be another relatively easy item, since the FE(1) versions work fine in FE2.

 

Agreed a mod-breaker, SF2-stye update is a VERY bad idea, but that's not the sort of patch people - at least some people - are asking for. Anyway, like I said it's probably not gonna happen either way.

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33LIMA:

The trouble with what people want, versus what TK has said is completely different.

 

TK has stated several times "that it will most likely break existing mods if he updated the game", so there is no question that if he patches it that this will happen. Like I have said over and over, TK has said that HE WILL BREAK THE GAME if he patches it, so why do people want him to break it ???

 

He is not going to just "patch" the things we want, he will patch it the way he wants, and I do not think he can get much clearer than that when he has said "that it will most likely break existing mods if he updated the game", and that is his quote, not mine.

Edited by Panama Red

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I think what might be behind what TK is saying is that people tend to be unaware how interconnected things are within the sim. That's why he's adamant about patches breaking the mods. I don't think that TK can write just a few lines of code to change something without affecting other bits of code. That's why the history of Thirdwire sims has often been, patch fixed this, but broke that, with all the associated bitching sessions between patches. And once his patch has broken the mods, he's under no obligation to create another patch to fix them, because he didn't create them. He's already listened to this bombardment when he switched the SF series to SF2 about the number of mods he broke. His response then was, "I can't fix them, I didn't create them."

 

But, go ahead and pester him until he does it. As someone pointed out, I don't have to download it. Just remember, that even little "minor" patches in the past have broken other things. "So stand to your glasses steady. This world is a tissue of lies. All the good ones have died already. Let's drink to the next man who dies..."

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33LIMA:

The trouble with what people want, versus what TK has said is completely different.

 

TK has stated several times "that it will most likely break existing mods if he updated the game", so there is no question that if he patches it that this will happen. Like I have said over and over, TK has said that HE WILL BREAK THE GAME if he patches it, so why do people want him to break it ???

 

He is not going to just "patch" the things we want, he will patch it the way he wants, and I do not think he can get much clearer than that when he has said "that it will most likely break existing mods if he updated the game", and that is his quote, not mine.

 

Yes it's TK's quote but he was probably talking about a patch along the lines of other SF2 patches (what else would he be talking about?). We're talking about something different.

 

Whether 'something different' would ALSO break mods is a moot point, about which we have no particular grounds for making any assumptions, one way or another.

 

It's also a bit of a leap to infer from his quote, as you do, that 'there is NO QUESTION [my emphasis] that if he patches it that this will happen'.

 

Anyway, whatever.

 

it's not likely to happen, so I'm not sweating it.

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A perfect example of why TK does not need to updated FE2: http://combatace.com/topic/78524-march-2013-patch-issue-ww2-aircraft/

 

Somehow, he's even managed to f*&^ up his own lods with this one, as per Wrench's post.  His own stuff.  All these separate installs, and I patched simply because someone said they were getting better framerates.  I should have known better.  My bad.  I'm going back to Naval miniatures for a while.  I'm tired of this crap.

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