Confession Prayer to the God of Airplane Designers

[Geary]

Oh Great God of Airplane Designers,

 

  Forgive me for I have sinned against the Purists.

 

  I have added a gun to the F-102 Delta Dagger.

 

  It is a beautifully designed airplane (with a couple of major flaws) and I love flying it.

 

  But it's not a dogfighter and It has no gun.  What the hell were you thinking?

 

  Once I've released the AIM-4 air-to-ground missilots to careen willy-nilly into space,

 

   I'm a bit embarrassed as the enemy pilots know they can easily evade those flying drop tanks and I have no other means of offense (or defense).

 

   I'm flying around in what moments ago was a dogfight and now feels like it's feeding time in a shark pool and I'm the raw meat.

 

   My only option then is to hang my head in shame, put it in afterburner, and head for home

 

   So ... I added a gun.  (Currently the 20MM_M39.)

 

   I know the airplane designers didn't put a gun on this plane and they probably thought it wasn't needed or couldn't find the space for it,

 

   I also know they didn't design this plane as a dogfighter,

 

   But most of us that fly it here end up in dogfights.

 

   So ... I added a gun.

 

   I know Purists are probably gathering to have me burned at the stake,

 

   but I shot down 3 MiG-17s with the gun after lightening my load by dropping my missiles. (I hope they found suitable ground targets.)

 

   So, my quandary ... Do I keep the gun ... or go back to looking and feeling sheepish trying to get a kill by throwing those explosive hunks of lead at the enemy?

 

   (If I keep the gun, I could use an expert to design a better Photoshop gun port for it.) 

 

    AMEN.

 

P.S.  What's with that damn cockpit strut down the center of view????  What the hell were you thinking?

[FalconC45]

Actually the AIM-4 Falcon is an Air-to-Air missile, not an Air-to-Ground missile. But its a POS missile.

 

Falcon

[Geary]

Actually the AIM-4 Falcon is an Air-to-Air missile, not an Air-to-Ground missile. But its a POS missile.

 

Falcon

 

 

Yeah, but they fly like Air-to-ground missiles. They rarely hit anything in the air.

[Icarus999]

not an Air-to-Ground missile. But its a POS missile.

 

Falcon

whadda ya mean? They hit the ground every time.  :)

[+RAVEN]

Why not just hang a Gunpod on the center pylon?

[Sheriff001]

To hit with the AIM-4, you need to get everything pretty much right.

[Geary]

Why not just hang a Gunpod on the center pylon?

 

Now you tell me?

 

I think I did look into that.  Seemed more complicated than what I did.

 

To hit with the AIM-4, you need to get everything pretty much right.

 

 

Sheriff,

 

  I actually got a hit with one a couple days back.  Surprised me so much I just stared at the wreckage wondering what, if anything, I did to get the hit.

 

  Then green tracers whizzed by my cockpit and I dove for the ground wondering if I'd meet any of my other AIM-4's on the way down.

[Sheriff001]

That's the other thing ... don't fire Falcons at fighters, it only makes them angry. Best to do a quick run at the bombers, and go home.

[Wrench]

Dart's don't have a center pylon ... that's where the weapons bay is!!

 

it's an INTERCEPTOR!! not a fighter!

[Geary]

 

it's an INTERCEPTOR!! not a fighter!

 

 

Mine is. 

[MigBuster]

The F-102As problems are lack of power and the canopy - very difficult to track a turning bandit in that thing.

 

You can alter the cockpit ini so you can move shoulders left/right to see around the front strut - doesn't help with the above though

[Geary]

The F-102As problems are lack of power and the canopy - very difficult to track a turning bandit in that thing.

 

You can alter the cockpit ini so you can move shoulders left/right to see around the front strut - doesn't help with the above though

 

 

Yeah, I can also use the SF F-106 cockpit with the pipe-site in the center of the cockpit strut.  I'm currently using the RAZBAM cockpit.  Hate to give it up, but really limits view.

 

Seems the designers figured out the F-102 needed a gun when they evolved it into the F-106.

 

Might add some power, too..

[FalconC45]

Guys, LOL yeah you're probably right but when I fired them they go ballistic to the sun.

 

Falcon

[Geary]

Guys, LOL yeah you're probably right but when I fired them they go ballistic to the sun.

 

Falcon

 

 

In the AIM-4's defense, they are good-looking missiles.  A bit misunderstood, I think.  I feel like they should have happy faces painted on their nose because when you fire them, they turn into happy little missiles flying as fast as they can, evading anything in the air that might cause them to explode, and living their short life in the air to its fullest.   

[Wrench]

why does the above statement remind me of "Dark Star"????

 

[Centurion-1]

why does the above statement remind me of "Dark Star"????

 

Haha classic, also reminds me very much of the AGM-65 from Episode two below (starts at about 6min 25s), but posted Ep.1 too since it's so damn funny

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wEURyjB3Lc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDHQjTxDRYk

[Geary]

Never saw those before.  CLASSIC!

 

Thanks for the laughs.

[Derk]

What on earth did the Swedes & the Swiss  to their Falcons in order to make them hit something apart from the Earth (which can hardly be missed from the normal distance). Whisper sweet nothings in Swedish and Schwitzerduutsch to them ?

 

And concerning the F-102: no one can deny that they looked VERY pretty with their red-white-blue 32 Sq Wolfhound tails. I even sat in one and it was a very cosy cockpit too.......

So hardly anything wrong with the plane ......

Edited November 10, 2013 by Derk

[bucklehead101]

Believe it or not, there was, at one point in time, a gun pod attached to an F-102.

 

Picture proof below

 

 

The caption reads "Seeing a need for air-to-ground firepower greater than rockets in the weapons bay doors, Det. 3 of the 509th FIS conducted fit trials with a minigun pod hung from a TER on the drop tank mounting point. San Antonio Air Material Authority, the approving authority, was not happy with the installation's ability to withstand gun recoil and there were other practical reasons for its non-adoption. Only one was ever mounted on an F-102 and it was never fired as it was not wired to the aircraft's systems."

 

From Wings of Fame journal, number 17 "Convair F-102 Delta Dagger" by Robert F. Dorr.

 

While the 7.62 isnt ideal for shooting down MiGs, in SF2, I think it will suffice nicely. By attaching two gunpods, you can have a historical (yet not approved) method of engaging MiGs (and strafe trucks).

Edited November 14, 2013 by bucklehead101

[Geary]

Bucklehead101,

 

  I'd first considered putting a gun pod on the F-102, but couldn't find a place it would fit.

 

  I thought mounting in in a bay, but that required more work than I cared to put into it.

 

  We should've given this plane to the Israelis.  They would've found a way to put a gun on it and use it as a fighter.

[PraetorH]

  We should've given this plane to the Israelis.  They would've found a way to put a gun on it and use it as a fighter.

 

I think even they would have had a hard time with it. Probably they would have reconfigured the pit first.

 

On topic, what about using two gun pods underwing, or one gun pod and one ecm pod/chaff-flare-dispenser?

 

And, if aunt Wiki is correct, there was the proposal of a CAS F-102 with an internal gatling gun. You may build upon that, if the info is accurate.

Edited November 15, 2013 by PraetorH

[macelena]

I once put a SUU-11 on a Phantom by mistake. I found it extremely weird that a Backfire could take so much pounding until i read the selected weapon caption. Then i got a 23mm thru the windshield.

[Geary]

PraetorH,

 

  I first considered a gun pod but couldn't find a place under the fuselage to place it.  So, that left the wings.  My first choice was the SUU-23.  But that gp is too big for the wings.  So, I looked at the SUU-11, but that fires 7.62 ammo and I don't think it has the range or impact needed for jet-to-jet combat, especially at speeds the F-102 would be fighting at.  So, that left me with a virtual internal gun.  I chose the M39.  Seems to fit the 'requirements' for the F-102.  The great thing about a virtual internal gun is that I can change it quite easily. :)

 

macelena,

 

   I think you make my point quite well in my not choosing the SUU-11.

[Sheriff001]

Q: How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

 

R: Practice

 

Successful AIM-4 firings are achieved in the same way. I suggest you download the Range terrain, create some target drones, and practice. That's how I became consistent with the AIM-4. One point - don't create a QB-47 and QB-17, for some reason, the Falcon always misses them. On identical parameters, I consistently hit Tu-16 Drones and QB-29s.

[macelena]

 

macelena,

 

   I think you make my point quite well in my not choosing the SUU-11.

 

Yep, i was surprised to see how much "20mm" fire that bitch could stand