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Skyviper

What the hell is wrong with me?

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So I've been a fan of flight sims for a long time. Like Top Gun NES (yes I know it doesn't count) and Super Strike Eagle (SNES ... again I know it doesn't count) have been my favorite games. Until I bumped into Jet Fighter 3 and then picked up Strike Fighters Wings Over Europe and Vietnam (From Big Lots .. yeah they had disks in a box... remember those days? Anyone?) I also go Flanker 2.5 from Hastings (it used to be a video store)

 

So here I have DCS A-10 and DCS Huey, Flight Simulator X, and SF2:NA, Europe ... and yet I have the strange craving to find ye olde DOS Jet Fighter 3, or Super Strike Eagle. Those games with those crappy graphics and settings. I mean I just really want to hunt them down, download them, and fire them up.

 

What the hell is wrong with me? I now have the sims I dreamed of using back in the day and now I want to go back to the old school graphics and things?

 

Don't tell me I'm having a mid life crisis ...

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Years ago, sims were games, in the meaning they were fun and had a mission for the player to complete, they made the player live the feeling of being there, now they're military sims completly soulless with amazing graphics and 0 immersion factor.

 

1992 Aces over the Pacific had a animated LSO!!! A feature never repeated on any other sim.

 

Aces%20of%20the%20Pacific_9_zps79hffui6.

 

1995 Hind had animated mujahideens and soviet troops doing their things, the bastards will fall from the chopper If you fly with the doors open...

 

scr-620_zps09hffbm4.jpg

 

hind-the-russian-combat-helicopter-simul

 

scr-280_zpsjjqawfxf.jpg

 

In two words, soul and immersion. DCS is sterile as it can be.

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What the hell is wrong with me?

 

 

Let me get back to you.....               ***starts novel*** ... book one, chapter one   :type:

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Don't worry. You are not the only one. The same happens to me.

 

Same for me I often find myself trawling the internet for those long lost older games. Maybee it is something to do with nostalgia and going back to fond early memories of gaming. Personally speaking I am playing Silent Hunter 3 right now and it is a pretty good game for 2005 and the graphics are just about tolerable, and it is so simple to play and its enjoyable....    

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Same for me I often find myself trawling the internet for those long lost older games. Maybee it is something to do with nostalgia and going back to fond early memories of gaming. Personally speaking I am playing Silent Hunter 3 right now and it is a pretty good game for 2005 and the graphics are just about tolerable, and it is so simple to play and its enjoyable....    

 

I think I still have that game floating around here somewhere. I even found an old "Marine Corps Simulator"  Close Combat: First to Fight it was a double feature with the Starship Troopers game.

Let me get back to you.....               ***starts novel*** ... book one, chapter one   :type:

 

:)

 

I get a percentage off that right? Royalties 'n Stuff. Reminds me of an old sitcom when a shrink mumbled to himself that has enough material to start a new book...just from the one visit.

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My games with big G were  AOE and EAW...  Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe... also F-14 Fleet defender... with back seat working..  Then.. HIND !!!!!!!   with multiplayer, two man crew!

 

I always wanted AOP.. .  but the one I could get did not work with joystick. 

 

but there is even "worse" nostalgia if I look back to the C-64 era. Since I started on that... 1989..

 

Microprose GUNSHIP... all times No1. F-19 Stealth Fighter. F-16 Fighting Falcon. bit later Fighter Bomber... but I had a faulty version though - it was not very enjoyable on C-64. Heh... just remember those even more ancient games like A.C.E and A.C.E 2 with split screen multiplayer.... ehhh :rofl:   Speaking of naval games... Strike Fleet? ancestor of the PC Harpoon series.

 

I have to note, at those times 99% of us kids and basically everyone in the country used copied programs... on casettes and some guys already had floppy drives... the lucky ones))  Good old copy parties and mail orders advertised on the back page of Commodore magazine. If you sent them an empty cassette or floppies, they copied them full with games you marked on their list...  for some 3-400 HUF  (=2-3 $ including postage)  :rofl:

 

 

EDIT... how could I miss this one???

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfmCvduacqU

 

EDIT 2

 

It's in hungarian, though, but this article is the best of "Simulator History".  Notable, however, that the author never encountered with TW games...

 

http://www.pcpilot.hu/egyeb/3882-szimulator-tortenelem-1-resz-eloszo-kezdetektol-a-90-es-evek-elejeig.html

Edited by Snailman

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I do the same with the earlier Ace Combats (everything from 6 onwards was complete shit), Red Baron, Apache vs Havoc and Jetfighter Fullburn. Nothing wrong with a bit of nostalgia.

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Exactly. The problem is developer resources are finite.

As PC abilities increased, they could spend more time on the graphics (models, textures, terrain, etc). They could put more time into the sounds. They could put more time into the modeling (damage, flight, weapons, etc).

 

So...what about the game part? Fewer people probably work on that than worked on the game part of F-19.

The UI? Yeah, the 90s games had barracks and stuff that made you feel like a pilot flying in a conflict. Current sims make you feel like...you're flying a sim on your PC.

How about AI? Amazingly, the AI in older sims often does a better job in seeming like real opponents. Not sure why.

 

Think about this--how many tens (even hundreds) of millions do they spend on a game like Call of Duty? A game where ALL you do is walk around and shoot stuff. It's mostly visuals! Yet they spend ALL that money just to do that. To make a flight sim that incorporated every lesson learned over the past 3 decades of sims, doing no worse than any of them, would likely require an equivalent budget.

 

We're not getting it with the paltry sums the Russian-made sims have to dedicate to them. We won't get it with the other indie devs of one or two guys like TK or that guy making CAP2.

 

What we have today are incredibly accurate sims that are only passable games. In short, the learning of the sim itself is 75% of the entertainment inherent in it, and if that's not what you like you're getting 1/4 the value out of it compared to the old batch. Those were games that included some simulation in it. Surprise surprise, they were more fun to play.

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Exactly. The problem is developer resources are finite.

As PC abilities increased, they could spend more time on the graphics (models, textures, terrain, etc). They could put more time into the sounds. They could put more time into the modeling (damage, flight, weapons, etc).

 

So...what about the game part? Fewer people probably work on that than worked on the game part of F-19.

The UI? Yeah, the 90s games had barracks and stuff that made you feel like a pilot flying in a conflict. Current sims make you feel like...you're flying a sim on your PC.

How about AI? Amazingly, the AI in older sims often does a better job in seeming like real opponents. Not sure why.

 

Think about this--how many tens (even hundreds) of millions do they spend on a game like Call of Duty? A game where ALL you do is walk around and shoot stuff. It's mostly visuals! Yet they spend ALL that money just to do that. To make a flight sim that incorporated every lesson learned over the past 3 decades of sims, doing no worse than any of them, would likely require an equivalent budget.

 

We're not getting it with the paltry sums the Russian-made sims have to dedicate to them. We won't get it with the other indie devs of one or two guys like TK or that guy making CAP2.

 

What we have today are incredibly accurate sims that are only passable games. In short, the learning of the sim itself is 75% of the entertainment inherent in it, and if that's not what you like you're getting 1/4 the value out of it compared to the old batch. Those were games that included some simulation in it. Surprise surprise, they were more fun to play.

 

 

 

You're right. That exactly what it is. Jet Fighter 3 you had emails from people. "Oh man you get to fly the new F-22! What's that like?" things like that. Star Lancer you started off as a junior officer in tiny quarters that had a busted door that wouldn't close all the way. But then towards the end of the game you would get plush quarters (though still small compared to your old ones...that space was a mansion). You got interact with your world, be in that world, and go on your adventure.

 

When you got done with the mission you could interact with your squadron, learn some tips. Learn about them (I forgot what game that was it was on SNES though).

 

That's it. Everything looks pretty and that's all there is to it. Yeah flight sims are doing things that we wished but like they say beware what you wish for. We got the graphics and sound and the price to pay was all those other little things that made games and sims what they were.

 

And I love *sarcasm* how every game tries to include those selling elements from other games but do it with their own spin. I.e This game zombies, this game ghouls, this other game has husks. All three of things are mindless humanoids that are severely decayed. But one is the undead, the other is a highly irradiated human being, and the last one is product of some scientific crap that does something with adrenaline and is the process of aliens. Bonus points if you know the 3 games I just mentioned.

 

But then let's face it. With people's attention span these days getting shorter and shorter. Do you think the elements of old could work in this day and age? Honestly, I think it could because now it would be something "new" to pups getting into gaming. They may very well love being in an environment designed not mainly be a multiplayer game or MMO or whatever but a personal world they can explore, have fun in, and be a part of.

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I don't know if it would go over or not.TBH, I never thought the reboots of Doom and Wolfenstein would go over as well as they did considering how badly the 2004 and 2009 versions, respectively, did. Well, Doom 3 didn't do badly, but it got critically trounced and history hasn't been kind to it. Leaked footage of the first try at a sequel, Doom 4, showed an SF COD-clone with the same kind of scripted battle sequences that series has become all too known for. It looked like COD on Mars with "Doom" slapped on it because the company thought THAT was what would work.

Instead, they took a chance and made a game like they used to make them and WHOA it was good and people flocked to it. They repeated with the other franchise and got the same result. So, the lesson is there that you can copy 90s gameplay with today's effects and other advances and still make a game that is both good and sells well. The question is if anyone else will take note...

 

BTW--an overarching thread tying together those 3 things you named is they are supposed to be stupid and brainless which makes AI programming for them a lot easier than something like the Marines in Half Life or NK soldiers in Crysis.

 

One of my favorite games for AI coding was the hilarious No One Lives Forever. You'd overhear the enemies talking about the most amusing things, then when the combat started depending on their situation they could be aggressive, take cover, or even run away shouting "Oh, ho, bullets!!" :biggrin: Another good one was the original FEAR, where they'd call for backup and flank you and such.

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That tried that in Fallout 4 too. When I'm sneaking you'll hear people say "Did you hear that? No you're just hearing stuff" or when kill someone they shout "No they killed him!" Or insult you. "It's called accuracy rookie!" That's when I hit them with a grenade. But they don't try to flank you.

 

 

I remember playing Fallout 2, where it would tell how much damage you inflicted on people in a window. I walked into a room with about ten to fifteen people in it and laid waste to it. I just happen to catch the message.

 

Kenny was hit critically with 400 damage and died.

You killed Kenny you bastard!

 

Anyway that's make a lot of sense what you said. Cannon fodder is easy to program

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I'm an older gamer which it appears I'm not alone,,,,I Still Fly CFS 1 and CFS 2 along with EAW,,Ginship!and Janes WWII Fighters I still have the Mod cd's to dress that puppy up..  Guess the newest sims I have is Il-2 with the BAT mod,And a modded SF2  ,Like it's said today's sims ain't got the same soul So I'm happy in my time caspule

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My Brother Used To Dump On Me All The Time, All That Horsepower And Your Playing Frigging DOS Games. Love My DOSBOX And Old Games Great Naval Battles Vol II

Plus Gary Grigsby War Of Russia, Carrier Strike Etc. Old Habits Die Hard Grew Up With Every Atari System And On To Avalon Commodore Titles. Sierra Leone Was Obsolete For System Language!!

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Oh and how DOS games made you feel bad for leaving them. Well a couple of them anyway. I remember seeing a prompt that would read :Action too much? Do you wanna stay and fight or do you want to run back to Windows where it's nice and safe.

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