+Gepard Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 We can make the Fla-MGs (german term for anti-aircraft-machineguns, is shorter) of tanks movable, so that they are aiming on ground and air targets. We can make them shoot too. But there is often a distance between muzzle of the gun and muzzle flash. Is there a way to solve this problem? At ships it works fine, but at tanks not. Screenshot that explain what i mean: GK's M-84, you see the flash right of Fla-MG stock M60A1, the muzzle flash is left from gun muzzle. Quote
Wrench Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 is there a statement for "attached node" or words to that effect? (like ship & aircraft gun turrets?) Quote
Gatling20 Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) I have never found a consistent solution to this issue. In the stock ground objects, like the M48, M60, Centurions etc, TK only had the main gun as a weapon, the extra AAMGs (Fla-MGs) have I think all been added later by the community. First you need a separate gunner for the AAMG set up in the Data.INI, as in GK's recent M-84, otherwise the AA MG will just fire in the same direction as the main gun. In the M-84 the main gun is operated by YawModelNodeName=Turret and PitchModelNodeName=Gun, and the AA gun is operated by a separate [Gunner1] with YawModelNodeName=commander_hatch and PitchModelNodeName=MG_Pitch. Then (I think) it is just matter of getting the MuzzlePosition right. Although if the pivot of the separate AAMG is set up wrong in the model, the AAMG muzzle flash probably cannot be fixed. Edited December 6, 2021 by Gatling20 Quote
+acesfakia Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) FIND THE MGBarell position ....with LODViewer By mue, if is possible. This is a Muzzleposition mistake Edited December 6, 2021 by acesfakia Quote
Gatling20 Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 I think that must be a modded Data.INI for the M-60, the stock M60A1_Data.INI extracted from ObjectData001.CAT only has the main GunTypeName=105MM_M68, and no MGs. And without a separate Gunner set up for that 50Cal it will just fire like a coaxial MG, not as an AA MG. Quote
+Gepard Posted December 6, 2021 Author Posted December 6, 2021 This are my lines from M60A1_data.ini [FlaGunner] SystemType=GUNNER GunnerID=1 TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND GunRange=1500.0 GunMinAltitude=0.0 GunMaxAltitude=1500.0 PitchAngleRate=30 MaxPitch=60.0 MinPitch=-15.0 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=FALSE YawAngleRate=30 MinYaw= MaxYaw= DefaultYawAngle=0 YawModelNodeName=cupola turret PitchModelNodeName=machine gun ViewportPosition=0.55,-0.30,3.05 VisualSearchTime=4.0 IndependentSearchChance=60 LookAroundChance=50 [FlaMG] SystemType=GUN GunnerID=1 GunTypeName=50cal_M3 MuzzlePosition=0.50,1.384,2.82 MaxAmmo=1000 TracerLoading=6 BurstAmount=12 EjectShells=TRUE The muzzle position is taken from LOD viewer. The problem is, that the gun moves in one direction, but is firing in an other direction. Quote
+Gepard Posted December 6, 2021 Author Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Wrench said: is there a statement for "attached node" or words to that effect? (like ship & aircraft gun turrets?) Where must i look for this "attached node"? Quote
+acesfakia Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gepard said: This are my lines from M60A1_data.ini [FlaGunner] SystemType=GUNNER GunnerID=1 TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND GunRange=1500.0 GunMinAltitude=0.0 GunMaxAltitude=1500.0 PitchAngleRate=30 MaxPitch=60.0 MinPitch=-15.0 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=FALSE YawAngleRate=30 MinYaw= MaxYaw= DefaultYawAngle=0 YawModelNodeName=cupola turret----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NAME CORRECT or NO ??? PitchModelNodeName=machine gun-----------------------. PitchModelNodeName=MGTurret ??? NAME CORRECT or NO ??? ViewportPosition=0.55,-0.30,3.05 VisualSearchTime=4.0 IndependentSearchChance=60 LookAroundChance=50 [FlaMG] SystemType=GUN GunnerID=1 GunTypeName=50cal_M3 MuzzlePosition=0.50,1.384,2.82--------------------MuzzlePosition=0.69,1.75,2.90 ? ? ? possition CORRECT or NO ??? MaxAmmo=1000 TracerLoading=6 BurstAmount=12 EjectShells=TRUE Quote
+acesfakia Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) M60A1_DATA.INI original extract M-60A1_DATA.INI from the game Data ini new......in Combatace..... Edited December 6, 2021 by acesfakia Quote
Gatling20 Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 Gepard: I have never seen or heard of "attached node" in ground objects. Your Data.INI numbers for the FlaMG look right, and if they are taken from the LOD Viewer I'm sure they are correct. The only thing I would try would be to change MuzzlePosition=0.50,1.384,2.82 to MuzzlePosition=-0.50,-1.384,2.82, and see if that changes things for the better. Also, make sure that the YawModelNodeName=cupola turret and PitchModelNodeName=machine gun are the correct names in the LOD. 1 Quote
Wrench Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 I just used "attached node", cause I couldn't think of another name!! Hope that didn't throw things off. Quote
Gatling20 Posted December 7, 2021 Posted December 7, 2021 Gepard: One other thing you might try is to assign the MG to GunnerID=2, instead of 1. The tank main gun in the M-60 is declared via the WeaponSystem and is not assigned a GunnerID, and it may be that the game engine sets the main gun as GunnerID=1 by default which then conflicts with your AA MG. So try this: [FlaGunner] SystemType=GUNNER GunnerID=2 ...... [FlaMG] SystemType=GUN GunnerID=2 ..... . Quote
+GKABS Posted December 7, 2021 Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) The machine gun issue is due to a moving gun being on top of another moving gun mount. Known issue with the game. I have tried fixing it by attaching the machine gun to the chassis with sacrificing, the accuracy of the machine gun position (you have to center it to the Turret). I did that witht the Chieftain-mk5 with success. But couldn't do it with the M-84 as it would really look totaly inaccurate. Maybe there's another way that I don't know of, but that's what I did. Edited December 7, 2021 by GKABS 2 Quote
+Gepard Posted December 7, 2021 Author Posted December 7, 2021 19 hours ago, Gatling20 said: Gepard: One other thing you might try is to assign the MG to GunnerID=2, instead of 1. The tank main gun in the M-60 is declared via the WeaponSystem and is not assigned a GunnerID, and it may be that the game engine sets the main gun as GunnerID=1 by default which then conflicts with your AA MG. So try this: [FlaGunner] SystemType=GUNNER GunnerID=2 ...... [FlaMG] SystemType=GUN GunnerID=2 ..... Unfortunatly it dont work. Quote
Gatling20 Posted December 8, 2021 Posted December 8, 2021 Schade. It must be the way the pivots are set up in the LOD itself, which means that it can't be fixed via the Data.INI. 1 Quote
+acesfakia Posted December 8, 2021 Posted December 8, 2021 Ι think also that the the pivots are set up wrong or the names = YawModelNodeName=MGTurret PitchModelNodeName=MGBarrel ...are....wrong..... Here in the photo are 3 difernent position's.....for the MG MuzzlePosition Quote
+Gepard Posted December 8, 2021 Author Posted December 8, 2021 The node names i have taken from LOD viewer. They are correct. The anti-aircraft-gun turret and barrel are moving as they should. But they are often not shooting in the direction in which the barrel is aming. Quote
+gerwin Posted December 8, 2021 Posted December 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Gepard said: The anti-aircraft-gun turret and barrel are moving as they should. But they are often not shooting in the direction in which the barrel is aming. AFAIK it is the other way around. The muzzle flash and bullets go to target, but the 3D model of the sub-turret is pointing in the wrong way. AFAIK it is because the game cannot handle the rotation of a sub-turret placed on another rotating turret. It is like that with all such ground objects that I made new in 3DS Max. It is a cosmetic thing only. Though in both your screenshots the MG muzzle flash is pointing in the main gun barrel direction, which may indicate something else is wrong there. Quote
Wilches Posted December 9, 2021 Posted December 9, 2021 Did you guys already notice that the same applies to the gun turrets on planes? Quote
+Gepard Posted December 9, 2021 Author Posted December 9, 2021 19 hours ago, gerwin said: AFAIK it is the other way around. The muzzle flash and bullets go to target, but the 3D model of the sub-turret is pointing in the wrong way. AFAIK it is because the game cannot handle the rotation of a sub-turret placed on another rotating turret. It is like that with all such ground objects that I made new in 3DS Max. It is a cosmetic thing only. Though in both your screenshots the MG muzzle flash is pointing in the main gun barrel direction, which may indicate something else is wrong there. Sometimes it works. And then, some seconds later, its the same rubbish as before. I think it is really a limit of the game engine, that it cant handle correct a rotating cuppola on a rotating turret. Not satisfying. Quote
+Gepard Posted December 9, 2021 Author Posted December 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Wilches said: Did you guys already notice that the same applies to the gun turrets on planes? At ships and planes this problem not appears. Quote
KJakker Posted December 9, 2021 Posted December 9, 2021 39 minutes ago, Gepard said: At ships and planes this problem not appears. Which ships have a moving turret on top of another turret? Quote
+GKABS Posted December 9, 2021 Posted December 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Gepard said: Sometimes it works. And then, some seconds later, its the same rubbish as before. That is correct when the main gun is not locked on a target the secondary gun will work correct but the minute the main gun finds a target and locks on it and gets commited to it, the firing effect will not allign with the muzzle of the barrel. 1 Quote
+Gepard Posted December 10, 2021 Author Posted December 10, 2021 On 9.12.2021 at 6:19 PM, KJakker said: Which ships have a moving turret on top of another turret? In SF2 world none. In reality it was not uncommon during WW2. Here a picture of the front turret of japanese Battleship Nagato. On the top you can see two tripple Flak guns. The picture was taken at Bikini Atoll some days befor an A-Bomb test. Quote
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