How do I make NATO fighters less effective

[+1Patriot-of-many 21]

How do i make American and other allied planes less effective. Even on easy setting, any Russian plane I take off with is eliminated very quickly. I'd like to play some of the Russian planes and live long enough to complete some missions.

[+EricJ 4,406]

I wish there was a fix but I get the same problem and you'd have to mess with availability and the like. I fly NATO so I don't get that problem. Or if you have the Mission Editor try and delete the flights to make it more realistic. If not there's not much I'm sure that can  be done.

[+yakarov79 11,597]

36 minutes ago, 1Patriot-of-many said:

Even on easy setting, any Russian plane I take off with is eliminated very quickly.

And what is wrong with it? 

 perhaps you are playing the wrong side then...

 

I think many noticed (over the years) that the red side is generally downgraded...

[tiopilotos 2,657]

Several factors have impact on aerial combat and what you describe has to do with which aircrafts fly, which armament is being carried, mission type, which service, which years, training level, presence of enemy air defense etc.

If you're new to the sim, you need some time to understand its nature, radar use, air to air missile use etc.

 

 

[clim995 18]

give russian air forces some money so that they can catch up with their avionics technology for real

[bazillius 1,277]

If you change thw side you will see the same and will ask "How do I make russian fighters less effective". the realism of air battles of modern aircraft in this game is very arbitrary. It is better to fight in the period of 60-80 years

[+Gepard 12,598]

Its an game Made in USA. Of course american planes and weapons are overrated. What do you expect? If you look into the datas of AIM-9B and AA-2, which are pratically the same, you will see, that the Sidewinder has better values than the Atoll. So it is in this game. You must live with it. In a russian game it would be exactly the opposite.

[+daddyairplanes 11,385]

2 hours ago, 1Patriot-of-many said:

How do i make American and other allied planes less effective.

Practice.

[macelena 1,070]

The main issue I have when flying Red Air is Sparrows kicking me in the face once Phantoms become more common, when in reality most of those shots wouldn't have been taken without ID being possible, you could reduce Sparrow's theorical rmax range to represent that. Other than that, early on, I would take a MiG-17 or a MiG-19 (stock) against pretty much everything in a dogfight. If you mean with mods, it is pretty much how they are set up. Not that it is completely unrealistic though. 

[+streakeagle 891]

There was a time when the US weapon effectiveness was very close to historic numbers from Vietnam and Israel. Toward the end of Strike Fighters development, financial considerations drove Third Wire to focus more on making the game fun for casual players than hard core people wanting realism. Suddenly, early AIM-9s and AIM-7s behaved a lot more like later AIM-9s and AIM-120s. 

[SayethWhaaaa 260]

Isn't there a radar size/detection range setting in each aircraft's data.ini for AI purposes? I seem to recall when the first stealth aircraft started getting released, one of the main problems was AI being able to detect you from 40kms+ out (I'm not going to coddle you Imperial using folks. Grow up, learn metric and join the rest of us in the 21st century. ) and it was pretty common for whole flights to light off medium range AAMs like you were a conventional aircraft. I remember ini updates focused on the detection range setting as a hotfix to better simulate stealthiness because of limitations of the game itself. If you compare the entries in the data.inis for, say, the F-22 and Su-27, for example, you'll see what I mean. This was 'fix' was a double edged sword, however, because if you reduced the detection range too much, AI pilots would suddenly have the vision range of Mr. Magoo and would only engage at that range, even if their radar and munitions could technically engage at significantly longer distances.

Failing that, you could always try LOMAC. Last time I played that, I remember the Russian dev team that bought it or otherwise took over the support of the game nerfed the Christ out of all the Western and NATO aircraft and weapons systems. I mean, the AMRAAM and AIM-54 were a tad OP with the release version, but real world notoriously underperforming AAMs like the R-27 series were practically silver bullets afterwards.

[+1Patriot-of-many 21]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:00 AM, SayWhatt said:

Isn't there a radar size/detection range setting in each aircraft's data.ini for AI purposes? I seem to recall when the first stealth aircraft started getting released, one of the main problems was AI being able to detect you from 40kms+ out (I'm not going to coddle you Imperial using folks. Grow up, learn metric and join the rest of us in the 21st century. ) and it was pretty common for whole flights to light off medium range AAMs like you were a conventional aircraft. I remember ini updates focused on the detection range setting as a hotfix to better simulate stealthiness because of limitations of the game itself. If you compare the entries in the data.inis for, say, the F-22 and Su-27, for example, you'll see what I mean. This was 'fix' was a double edged sword, however, because if you reduced the detection range too much, AI pilots would suddenly have the vision range of Mr. Magoo and would only engage at that range, even if their radar and munitions could technically engage at significantly longer distances.

Failing that, you could always try LOMAC. Last time I played that, I remember the Russian dev team that bought it or otherwise took over the support of the game nerfed the Christ out of all the Western and NATO aircraft and weapons systems. I mean, the AMRAAM and AIM-54 were a tad OP with the release version, but real world notoriously underperforming AAMs like the R-27 series were practically silver bullets afterwards.

LOMAC? What's that?

 

[+EricJ 4,406]

Lock On: Modern Air Combat

[+1Patriot-of-many 21]

10 hours ago, EricJ said:

Lock On: Modern Air Combat

Thanks, I have it, haven't played it much over the years, never could get the keyboard and joystick commands right. I'll have to try it again.

[+EricJ 4,406]

1 minute ago, 1Patriot-of-many said:

Thanks, I have it, haven't played it much over the years, never could get the keyboard and joystick commands right. I'll have to try it again.

Okay and good luck...

[+1Patriot-of-many 21]

Back just to revisit this thread, Just got done reading a book on the F4 phantom II's USAF mig killers 1972-73.  Falcon missiles were practically useless, Sparrows were less than 15% fired to hit ratio, and sidewinders slightly less than that.  That definitely isn't programmed in when you fly on the North Vietnamese side in the game, but at least you have a fighting chance of breaking missile lock unlike most of the other mods playing the red side.  BTW I'm true blue American, just because I like to play on the Red side once in a while doesn't mean I'm a democrat, quite the opposite. Here's some of my toys, minus a couple on another part of the property.   

[+daddyairplanes 11,385]

8 hours ago, 1Patriot-of-many said:

 BTW I'm true blue American, just because I like to play on the Red side once in a while

thank you for the missile info

and breathe Kemosabe. this aint FB, and over half of the active participants arent American at all

beside, its fun playing the Soviets in games. their ROE was always much less restrictive......

[+EricJ 4,406]

8 hours ago, 1Patriot-of-many said:

Back just to revisit this thread, Just got done reading a book on the F4 phantom II's USAF mig killers 1972-73.  Falcon missiles were practically useless, Sparrows were less than 15% fired to hit ratio, and sidewinders slightly less than that.  That definitely isn't programmed in when you fly on the North Vietnamese side in the game, but at least you have a fighting chance of breaking missile lock unlike most of the other mods playing the red side.  BTW I'm true blue American, just because I like to play on the Red side once in a while doesn't mean I'm a democrat, quite the opposite. Here's some of my toys, minus a couple on another part of the property.   

 

I guess you missed the memo that we don't do politics here. Nobody gives a shit who you vote for, only that you follow the forum rules. Nobody questions your loyalty to America because you fly opponents jets. I flew and loved the Su-27 and Su-33 quite a lot before being burned out and changing modeling of the weapons systems.

Anyway, more or less you'd have to go through the various inis and modify them so you don't get shot down. Other than that good luck on the virtual battlefield and nice vehicles, but I left the Army and only kept a piece of property when I was signed for some Stryker FSVs. Other than that I don't drive, and would still drive a Hummer if I had one (not a civvie one),  but that's that.

But it doesn't matter as you get mobbed by flying any other Russian or otherwise jet. I don't know why but I stay away from Red jets in SF2 because of that unrealistic reason, so good luck with all of that.

[+daddyairplanes 11,385]

4 hours ago, EricJ said:

 Hummer if I had one (not a civvie one),  but that's that.

meh.  anything smaller than LMTV is too small 

although i recall driving a HMMWV, almost smacking into the back end of a Hummer that got into our convoy, who had to brake hard because the LMTV with trailer ahead of both of us threw a tire. 

why could i never come out of an FTX  without some kind of problem? 

[+EricJ 4,406]

30 minutes ago, daddyairplanes said:

meh.  anything smaller than LMTV is too small 

although i recall driving a HMMWV, almost smacking into the back end of a Hummer that got into our convoy, who had to brake hard because the LMTV with trailer ahead of both of us threw a tire. 

why could i never come out of an FTX  without some kind of problem? 

Don't feel bad, I put my Humvee in a ditch in Fort Hood one time, and another in Iraq, so don't get too self-conscious. Other than those two times throughout my service I didn't crash or whatnot, so out of fifteen years I don't see that as too bad. But I feel you, convoys suck though.

[+daddyairplanes 11,385]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Don't feel bad, I put my Humvee in a ditch in Fort Hood one time, and another in Iraq, so don't get too self-conscious. Other than those two times throughout my service I didn't crash or whatnot, so out of fifteen years I don't see that as too bad. But I feel you, convoys suck though.

well, i didnt hit the Hummer. but me and the joe riding with me got a good close look at the steering wheel and dashboard.

even more fun was running back to strip a tire off another trailer, then getting the mechanics to follow with the wrecker. not to change the tire (thats ten level ), but to use the crane to hold the MKT upright. naturally, the right tire is what flew off (and over the Hummer!) and so the trailer was leaning at a 45 plus degree angle into the ditch on the side. 

if i recall, this was the FTX where wife #1 for my joe with two wives left him.  he was the one riding shotgun, then left with the trailer while i got another tire

i swear, i should write a book. but nobody would believe it........

[+EricJ 4,406]

I thought as a writer to do a memoir, but I'm not exactly the brightest spot in some careers, so I just infuse any events with my fiction to give it some authenticy.

[OlWilly 144]

I dug a lot into weapon and avionics parameters and basegame indeed has this issue - I won't say it is biased, more like casualised

Default AIM-9M from Israel DLC could easily lock at 20km and then hit without losing much energy. This is ace combat level of "simulation"

The energy performance of missiles is likewise all over the place edging on UFO territory

I would stress that this is not the engine issue - the engine could model missile performance surprisingly well, I had good results tuning the missiles

Unfortunately, without massive rebalancing this is not easily solvable

[+daddyairplanes 11,385]

6 hours ago, OlWilly said:

I dug a lot into weapon and avionics parameters and basegame indeed has this issue - I won't say it is biased, more like casualised

you missed the debates shortly after SF2NA came out in 2012, where people bitched the missiles were too powerfull. then too weak. each patch led to a new round of complaining.

so what you got now for the most part is where he dropped it at in July '13

[Wrench 10,313]

 

If I may be so bold, as to suggest to the original poster to download and explore one of the many Weapons Packs we have that bring many of the missiles and other weapons more in line with the Real World (tm), when and where possible.

Enjoy!

(btw: NICE collection of vehicles!!!!  !!!)