Search the Community

View File F-8K & F-8L Crusader (TW DLC) Third Wire F-8K & F-8L Crusader 1.0 This pack is a TW DLC enhancement. So it's needed to work. Included is the F-8K with data/ avionic/ effect/ sound corrections for accuracy, as well as modification of the Third Wire DLC F-8K Crusader model into the F-8L model Crusader. F-8K - The F-8K is the F-8C airframes rebuilt to extend their service life starting in 1969. It is updated with the same underwing pylons as F-8E, but it did not receive any engine or avionics updates. The F-8K was used mainly by the Marines squadrons in the States and did not see any combat. F-8L - The F-8L is the F-8B airframes rebuilt to extend their service life starting in 1969. It is updated with the same wing as the F-8H as well as the landing gear from the F-8D/ E, but it did not receive any engine or avionics updates. The F-8L was used mainly by the Reserve squadrons in the States and did not see any combat. To install: 1, Unpack and drop into your main mods folder. 2, Override when prompted. Credits: - F-8 DATA & LOADOUT v1.0 update by FANATIC MODDER. - SF2V Air & Ground War Expansion v.2.0 Gold by Eburger68 and team. - Weapons by Ravenclaw_007. CombatAce fair use agreement applies. Enjoy, Dan. Submitter dtmdragon Submitted 10/28/2024 Category F-8  

After doing long research and reading up on the flight documentation of the F-8 Crusader, I have found that there is support for chaff and flares on the aircraft though in game, only 60 chaff is available unless editing the data file. I went and gave the F-8's 30 chaff and flares as the manual says in real life as far as the mod 3 F-8E to F-8J and H around 1966 to the latest. I would hope eventually someone can update the countermeasure options in a later update to the F-8 on one of the third party mods like the mirage pack, french F-8 and such. Just saying.

View File Third Wire F-8 Crusader Upgrade & Enhancement This has been a labor of love for my all-time favorite fighter aircraft. The service period of this aircraft fits perfectly with the time period that the Strike Fighters 2 game engine gives its best: Gun armed jet fighters with short range missiles and early/ limited avionics. Changes: - The ‘SF2V Air & Ground War Expansion v.2.0 Gold’ and ‘F-8 DATA & LOADOUT v1.0 update’ here at CA were used as a starting point for this project. - Maximum G has been changed to 6.3 which is the airframe structural limit in all NATOPS publications. - There are automatically operating ‘fake’ leading edge droops (slats) that simulates the pilot being able to lower them a few degrees with a button on the throttle for cruising flight and manoeuvring flight (aka dog fighting). By ‘fake’ I mean they are not player operated in SF2 or linked to the 3D model but the aerodynamic effect is realistically simulated. You will notice the droop indicator in the cockpit will change with them however. If they were manually controlled in the game the AI would not use them correctly. - Single AIM-9 missiles and rails can be loaded instead of the Y-racks on all F-8 variants. This is done at the loadout screen (and by the loadout.ini file) it is set up so you cannot load single missiles/ rails and double missiles/ Y-racks at the same time. - Cannons harmonized as per NATOPS manual and gun accuracy adjusted to real world levels. - Adjustment to most decal positions and inclusion of Squadron codes on the wings. - Additional details added to most stock skins. - Additional squadron specific higher resolution skins with more accurate markings for that particular squadron. - Included for F-8J (69) is a proposed SEA camo overpaint for the VF-211 aircraft on detachment at Udorn in early 1972 to school USAF pilots in Dogfighting. The repaint was initially agreed to but it would have added 1200lbs so it was abandoned. If you wish to use it and fly DACT against USAF Phantoms you can load the extra 1200lb at the load out screen via a unique station specific hard point. - Overhaul of each data.ini and avionics.ini to bring them in line with the information in the F-8 NATOPS manuals, NATOPS supplements and F-8 Tactics manual. - More detailed pilots and ejection seats. - Fully compatible with ‘SF2V Air & Ground War Expansion v.2.0 Gold’ or Third Wire SF2V campaigns. - Additional year specific aircraft to better reflect physical and avionic changes. As well as correcting a few mistakes and omissions by Third Wire. - Below is the updated list of F-8 Crusader variants with the original Third Wire description where appropriate and the specific major changes made in addition to the general ones listed above: F-8C The F-8C (F8U-2) entered service in 1959. F-8C is powered by J57-P-16 afterburning turbojet and can reach speed of Mach 1.6. - Missing radar symbology added and radar performance/ parameters corrected. The radar cursor for selecting a target is a long horizontal line that moves up from the bottom of the scope and is only adjustable in range and not azimuth to select a specific radar contact. F-8C (66) In 1966, F-8C received ALQ-51 ECM and chaff dispensers under project "SHOEHORN", after A-4 and F-4 were upgraded. The cannon ammo capacity is reduced slightly to make room for the ECM black box. - Uses the TW F-8D model modified into a F-8C in order for it to have the Y-rack Fuselage weapon rails. F-8D The F-8D (F8U-2N) was the all-weather interceptor version, entering service in 1960. It is equipped with AN/APQ-83 radar and more powerful J57-P-20 engine. - Missing radar symbology added including steering circle, aiming dot, break X and missile max range. F-8D (66) F-8D also received ALQ-51 ECM and chaff dispensers under project "SHOEHORN" in 1966. The cannon ammo capacity is reduced slightly to make room for the ECM black box. F-8E The F-8E (F8U-2NE), entering service in 1962, was the final production version of the Crusader. It is equipped with better AN/APQ-94 radar, and two underwing pylons for air-to-ground ordnance. - Radar frame lock, range and shoot cue lights all completely changed and now function correctly. See screenshot for more information. - Missing radar symbology added including range rate circle, which also doubles as the steering circle, aiming dot, break X and missile max range. - Missile firing order and cockpit weapon station section dial corrected. F-8E (66) F-8E also received ALQ-51 ECM and chaff dispensers under project "SHOEHORN" in 1966. The cannon ammo capacity is reduced slightly to make room for the ECM black box. - Significant use of the AIM-9C as after a lot of research it turns out they were commonly carried over Vietnam in this period, notably by VF-211. F-8E(FN) The F-8E(FN) is the French Aeronautique Navale version of the F-8 armed with Matra R.530 missiles. Nicknamed "Le Crouze" by the French crew, it operated off Clemenceau-class carriers from 1964 to 1994 until they were upgraded to F-8P standard. F-8E(FN) introduced many of the features, such as double-hinged leading edge flaps and drooping ailerons, that were later incorporated into remanufactured F-8J for the US Navy. - Equipped with the nose mounted IRST system like the USN F-8D and E. - This is the TW F-8J model modified into a F-8E(FN) so the DLC is NOT required. - Radar frame lock, range and shoot cue lights all completely changed and now function correctly. See screenshot for more information. - Location of Matra R.530 missile rails corrected. F-8E(FN) (70) - The nose mounted IRST system is removed from all French aircraft. F-8P(FN) - 17 F-8E(FN) are upgraded to extend their service life, included is the Sherloc RWR system. - This is the TW F-8J model modified into a F-8P(FN) so the DLC is NOT required. F-8P(FN) (94) - F-8P(FN) are fitted with a GPS navigation system and antenna. F-8H Starting in 1967, F-8Ds were remanufactured as F-8H, with improved AN/APQ-149 radar, ALQ-51 ECM, and the same underwing pylons as F-8E. - Retains the AN/APQ-83 radar from the F-8D but uses the physically larger and higher resolution cockpit radar display from the F-8E. - Missing radar symbology added including steering circle, aiming dot, break X and missile max range. - Radar frame lock, range and shoot cue lights all completely changed and now function correctly. See attached for more information. - Missile firing order and cockpit weapon station section dial corrected. F-8H (69) F-8H is re-engined in 1969 with more powerful J57-P-420 engine. It also has improved ALQ-100 ECM in a larger pod, and full cannon ammo capacity restored. - Improved AN/APQ-149 radar fitted in place of the AN/APQ-83. - Additional missing radar symbology added including separate larger range rate circle and separate smaller steering circle. - A lot of fleet F-8H around this period have had their Nose IRST system (temporarily?) removed. - Retains the ALQ-51 ECM. F-8H (74) - After the Vietnam war F-8H has the improved ALQ-100 ECM in a larger pod installed, and full cannon ammo capacity restored. F-8J F-8J is a remanufactured F-8E with improved AN/APQ-149 radar, ALQ-51 ECM, and other improvements such as double-hinged leading edge flaps and drooping ailerons. However, its performance has suffered significantly due to increases in its weight. - Improved AN/APQ-124 radar installed. - Radar frame lock, range and shoot cue lights all completely changed and now function correctly. See screenshot for more information. - Missing radar symbology added including separate larger range rate circle, separate smaller steering circle, aiming dot, break X and missile max range. - Missile firing order and cockpit weapon station section dial corrected. F-8J (69) To restore lost performance due to increased weight, F-8J is re-engined in 1969 with more powerful J57-P-420 engine. It also has improved ALQ-100 ECM in a larger pod, and full cannon ammo capacity restored. F-8J (75) - In 1975 the remaining fleet F-8J (along with the RF-8G) receive the ALQ-126 ECM and ALR-45/50 RHAW RWR. The nose mounted IRST system is permanently removed. F-8J (75) [w RWR] - Identical to F-8J (75) above except: - The cockpit radar display functions as a Vector RWR and not a radar. This is because in real life the pilot could change the radar scope from displaying radar images or displaying the RWR images. The F-8J did not have a separate RWR display. There was a setting in which it would be displaying radar images but if a missile launch was detected the threat bearing line would be displayed flashing over top of the radar images. Not possible in SF2 unfortunately. To install: 1, Unpack and drop into your main mods folder. 2, Override when prompted. Credits: - ‘F-8 DATA & LOADOUT v1.0 update’ by FANATIC MODDER. - ‘SF2V Air & Ground War Expansion v.2.0 Gold’ by Eburger68 and team. - ‘F-8E(FN) Crouze & F-8P(FN) Crouze Prolongé 1.1’ by Paulopanz, Denis Oliveira & Coupi. - Weapons by Ravenclaw_007. - Template by Geary. - Blade. - Wrench. CombatAce fair use agreement applies. Enjoy, Dan. Submitter dtmdragon Submitted 12/15/2020 Category F-8  

View File F-8H Phil Air Force skin F-8H Phil Air Force skin by Blade This skin depicts the F-8H Crusaders used by the Philippine Air Force in the 1980s. It can be used with the stock F-8H (69) Crusader. Installation: To use this skin you need SF2 Vietnam or the SF2 Complete Edition. Simply drop the attached 'Objects' folder in your SF2 mod folder. None of your files should be overwritten by this mod. Freeware use only. See downloaded file for more info on the F-8H in Philippine service. Submitter Blade Submitted 09/01/2020 Category F-8  

Never in the field of Human conflict have so many hampered, limited and controlled so few as in the air campaign in North Vietnam. (Churchill + HW Baldwin) Note - These articles are a compacted summary of a rather large topic and cannot include every detail. The Muppet Show that was Lyndon B Johnson, Robert McNamara, and friends demonstrating how they didn’t have a clue when running Rolling Thunder from the White House was certainly almost criminal if not treasonous. However, the lack of understanding didn’t stop there because the SAC dominated US Air Force was also trying to run things from afar leading to some very strange policy decisions for those in the field. Air to Air Training in Vietnam To fight and use guns A-A you need to be trained in the first place, if you wish to become experienced that is. If you remember the pilot comments from Part 1 you may have noticed the ones from the USAF seemed to include comments regarding poor training and back seat drivers……. USAF training Not wanting to fight a long war with the same group of pilots the USAF set up a policy that would rotate the available pilots. USAF policy was thus to fly a tour which was 1 year in South Vietnam, or 100 missions over North Vietnam. Unfortunately, the war went on longer than expected and basically, the USAF had problems getting enough pilots to fill the roles. One great way [or not] around this was to lower standards and send through pilots that may have been washed out pre-war. Part of policy was to produce “universal pilots” that could in theory fly any aircraft, so yes transport pilots who perhaps never had the aptitude to fly fighters now transitioning to fighters and being sent to Vietnam. The Replacement Training Units (RTUs) produced pilots poorly trained in A-A because of the USAFs corporate beliefs that ACM among inexperienced pilots would lead to accidents. USAF culture at the time was obsessed with flying safety. [Dying in combat due to lack of basic training was not on the Health & Safety spreadsheet perhaps!] Another problem was the time it took to train A-A didn’t quite fit in with the time they wanted to spend training a pilot before sending them into combat (fixed at 6 months at one point). By 1967, 200 pilots a month were entering training, however the quality had deteriorated to a point where they were having problems completing the landing/take off part let alone the rest! To add to the mess the USAF had too many Navigators and not enough Pilots. So, what did they do? That’s right they started sticking 2 pilots in each F-4 as policy. The ‘genius’ idea being that the pilot in the back would learn the systems then move to the front seat. In reality it seems the pilot in the back was a waste of a pilot that was not trained properly or interested in learning the radar systems. This and other factors lead to the two-man crew being anything but an effective team in combat!! F-4s and F-105s around a KC-135 (USAF) US Navy Training Unlike the USAF the USN couldn’t lower the bar /standards to get more pilots because they had to be able to land on a carrier, and it was decided early whether they were fighter or heavy. Because of this USN pilot tours were typically longer than USAF ones (over 100 missions up North) and pilots would fly 2 combat cruises every 14 months by policy from 1967 to ensure there was some rest period. Unlike the USAF, the Navy used highly trained, and dedicated RIOs (Radar Intercept Officers) in the back seat, that funnily enough worked a lot better. F-4Bs from VF-111 Sundowners (US Navy) How Rolling Thunder changed air to air training (or not) USAF Decided the poor performance during Rolling Thunder was more related to technical issues, and actually reduced air-to-air training after 1968 if you could believe something so ridiculous [the 2 pilot F-4 policy was at least rescinded!]. Although it was recognised by most it needed to change urgently, the internal politics and policies meant that was not happening. Real change only happened after 1972 with the change in high level staff and attitudes leading to the creation of programs like Red Flag. US Navy After the dismal F-4 air-to-air results the USN decided its F-4 pilots had not been adequately trained properly. Being ‘fleet defense’, training was based on using missiles and they had even abolished the Fleet Air Gunnery Unit in that time. Thus, air-to-air combat skills had deteriorated. [note: this didn’t apply to the well-trained F-8 crews of course that had far better results] This lead in 1969 to the creation of the Navy Fighter Weapons School (Top Gun) to get the Navy F-4 crews back to speed. The Navy also improved the technical side - including better over land detection with the ALQ-91 ( Similar to ‘Combat Tree’), and had significantly better AIM-9 versions such as the D/G/H. F-4J from VF-114 (US Navy) How did the different attitudes to training work out for the USAF? During Linebacker 1 & 2 the US Navy kill ratio against MiGs was 6-1 and the USAFs was 2-1 however the kill ratios don’t include all the factors e.g. USAF F-4D/Es had Combat Tree, flew different Route Packs etc. So, to illustrate how inept USAF training really was at the end of US involvement in the war. In August / Sept 1972 a group of USN F-8 pilots spent a few weeks at Udorn RTAFB flying A-A training (or DACT) against USAF F-4 crews of the premier USAF MiG killing wing. The well-trained F-8 pilots [who had been used to dueling with USN F-4 Top Gun pilots] embarrassed the USAF F-4 crews, and were appalled at the tactics, training and lack of skill from a supposed A-A unit. An F-8 pilot said,” The contest between the F-4 and F-8s was so uneven at first we were ashamed by the disparity. The sight that remains in my mind is a chilling one for any number of MiG pilots must have identical views. The pitiful sight of four super fighters [USAF F-4s] in front of you all tucked in finger four, pulling a level turn. An atoll fired anywhere in parameters would be the proverbial mosquito in a nudist colony and wouldn’t know where to begin.” (Clashes by ex USAF F-4 veteran Michel III) The USN F-8 pilots felt the USAF crews needed basic instruction, not just training missions! Also consider that some of the USAF pilots were instructors or graduates of the USAF Fighter Weapons School, that was still preaching obsolete useless tactics and was resistant to change. This only confirmed what the USAF pilots already knew (they were so far behind). The USN report when sent to PACAF was dismissed by some as inter-service bias it seems. This next account sums things up perfectly: In 1974 the Air Force reassigned me from an overseas assignment in England to Nellis. When I arrived, I had over 1,200 hours in the F–4, including 365 combat hours. I had never flown a dissimilar air combat sortie (DACT). I had never carried a training AIM–9 and had not even seen one since my combat tour four years earlier. I had never used a gun camera. The only tactical formation I had flown was Fluid Four/Fighting Wing. I had never intercepted a target at low altitude. In other words, I was a typical F–4 pilot with a combat tour. (CR Anderegg - who went on to fly the vastly superior F-15 along with some actual A-A training!) F-4Bs of VF-114 (US Navy) The not so mysterious case of the VPAF Aces The first batch of VPAF (Vietnamese Peoples Air Force) pilots were sent in 1956 to China and were being trained on MiG-17s by 1960 in both China but primarily in the Soviet Union. The MiG-17 had no missiles initially and thus air combat employing guns had to be taught, so training included things like dogfighting. Drop outs were high with only around 20% of the pilots passing by the mid-1960s (the rest becoming ground technicians). This was lower than other Soviet ally nation pilots who typically had a better baseline education and had often already flown aircraft. [some of the Vietnamese had literally never seen an aircraft before] Over North Vietnam the MiGs became part of an Integrated Air Defence system (IADS) and had to fit around the AAA and later SAM defenses flying in restricted areas and altitudes and often tied to the GCI (Ground Control Intercept) stations. The VPAF were also consistently changing tactics that the pilots had to adapt to. However, the MiG pilots mostly had only one primary role and that was air-to- air combat. Being outnumbered but often having better situational awareness they often fought ambush “hit and run” tactics in small numbers. [this was smart!] What we can deduce is: They didn’t fly a 100-mission tour then go home, they had to fight until death. Fighting for their home land probably meant motivation and dedication were not an issue. [Unlike the US, the VPAF were fighting a ‘total war’] If they were shot down and survived then they were still on home turf. With the experience and training some of these pilots were no doubt very skilled flyers. So, for example out of 18 VPAF MiG-21 pilots given official Ace status, 16 of them were shot down and some of them were shot down 3 times! MiG-21MF Fishbed with AA-1s and AA-2s (Wikipedia) Let’s do the myth and mystery of Colonel Tomb Prior to better information the ‘13 kill ace, Colonel Tomb’ was apparently shot down and killed on 10 May 1972 in a famous (and very close) 1 v 1 MiG-17F v F-4J dogfight against US Navy Top Gun Graduates Randy Cunningham/Willie Driscoll. Willie Driscoll in a 2018 podcast describes how capable he thought the pilot was. [but still also thinks he had 13 kills to his name]. Showtime 100 downs a MiG-17 (dogfighthistory.be) In 2007 A document called On Watch was declassified and released by Freedom of Information by the National Security Agency (NSA). In the section “Comrade Toon Flies the unfriendly skies”, it seems that NSA SIGINT analysts were able to unlock the MiG pilots callsign system and had identified an ace who flew out of Phuc Yen called “Toon”. Head of the Seventh Air Force General Momyer wanted him out of the skies and it is said became obsessed with getting rid of him. It states: “The SIGINT detachment alerted Momyer’s HQ whenever Toon was scheduled to fly a mission, and Momyer would send his planes aloft to hunt down the Red Baron of North Vietnam.” It seems that Toon was quite adept at avoiding these aircraft and one dark night [no date] after taking off from Vinh (South NVN) in a MiG-21 and avoiding the US fighters he intercepted a flight of B-52s and fired 2 missiles. One failed but the other lodged into the wing of a B-52 and didn’t detonate. Despite this the B-52s, following standard procedure ditched their ordnance and so he had a mission kill anyway. It states they were never able to catch him (or perhaps it meant "them" ?). Trying to match this up...........In 1971 MiG-21 Ace Dinh Ton appears to be the only Ace [6 claims / 4 match up] involved in intercepting B-52s from South NVN. On the 4th October he took off from Dong Hoi (near Vinh), but was unable to fire on the B-52s because of the Escorting F-4s. On the 20th November Hoang Bieu took off from Vinh [MiG-21] as a diversion and another pilot (Vu Dinh Rang) was able to fire two R-3S Atolls [from his MiG-21] at a B-52 and one of the missiles hit and damaged the bomber. This was the first successful intercept of a B-52 according to the VPAF [ USAFs "War Above The Clouds" does mention a Missile fired from a MiG at B-52s on the 20th November during Commando Hunt VII - causing the mission to be called off ] So, although it looks like there really was an ace called Toon I do wonder if they were able to see everything and not still tracking different pilots. If [big if] the real Toon was Dinh Ton, then he was eventually shot down on 11 Sept 1972 in a MiG-21U by a VMFA-333 F-4J (Lasseter/Cummings) Both Ton and the backseat IP ejected safely. No VPAF pilot claimed more than 9 kills, the 13 number most likely came from VPAF MiGs photographed and sent to the media at the time including May 1968 a photo of MiG-21PFL (4326) with 13 red stars (kills) on its nose and MiG-17 (3020). In reality the 13 kills were the sum of those claimed by several different flyers of that Jet. MiG-17 Fresco (warbirdsresourcegroup.org) So, who did Driscoll / Cunningham shoot down then on the 10th May? Four MiG-17s were scrambled to intercept the raid on the Hai Duong Railway yard that Showtime 100 (Cunningham/Driscoll) was covering. Pilots Do Hang, Tran Van Kiem, Nguyen Van Tho were 923rd regiment MiG-17 pilots hit by missiles on that date but nothing conclusive describing a prolonged 1v1 fight. (Hang and Kiem were both killed) There were J-6s (Chinese MiG-19s) also in combat that day (925th regiment) but over different areas. Only Le Duc Oanh was shot down on the 10th being hit by a missile and ejected (later died of injuries) but not described as a prolonged 1v1 dogfight. Le Van Tuong was the other fatality when he overran the runway and turned over. No MiG-19/J-6s claims were made by the US on the 10th despite one being shot down - they were probably (understandably) misidentified as MiG-17s it seems by US pilots in the heat of combat. Shenyang J-6 / MiG-19S Farmer (vnmilitaria.com) When it comes to A-A guns over Vietnam let us not forget The F-8 Crusader Unlike the USN F-4 pilots the F-8 community was well trained in traditional BFM/ACM from the start and could make use of the 4 cannon in its nose providing they didn’t fire them under high G loading that caused them to Jam! (Leading one pilot to describe the guns as very unreliable under High G loading). This training served them well and by the end of Rolling Thunder the stats would suggest they did well compared to the F-4 units, which of course was replacing the F-8s at that time. Out of the 19 A-A kill claims, 3 were with the gun. F-8E (Seaforces.com) The F-105 Thunderchief In somewhat of a paradox the USAF F-105 had the most encounters over Vietnam with MiGs and racked up about 26 MiG-17 kills (out of 140 gun engagements) with its M61A1 Gatling Gun. Some F-105 pilots had complained of poor A-A training in Red Baron. Jack Broughton described a different community with many old heads from Korea who knew their A-A anyway (considered themselves fighter jocks) and trainees were taught when they came to theatre. Some probable reasons for the gun kills include: The F-105 often didn’t carry AIM-9Bs due to available pylons or sometimes lack of availability. The AIM-9B was inferior to the AIM-9D used by the F-8. The M61A1 was far more reliable than the F-8s (MK-12) guns, only failing in about 12 percent of firing passes Being ‘All Aspect’ the gun was easier to employ over the restrictive AIM-9B envelope. F-105D - king of the Brrrt (Global Aviation Resource) Guns on modern fighters (the F-35A) The last US A-A (manned) gun kill was in Feb 1991 when an A-10A shot down an Iraqi Mi-8 Helicopter. There is also a 1992 video of a FAV F-16A gunning down an OV-10E in a Venezuelan coup. But who cares really because guns have been used in all the low-key wars since then. In fact, jets including the F-14/16/15/18/Harrier have all used guns to strafe enemy personnel and equipment on a very regular basis. So, as we see just in 1963 with the F-4E, the requirement for a gun for Air to Ground is just as strong now as it was then. Let’s look at why the USAF may have put an internal gun on the F-35A, according to a 2007 paper by Colonel Charles Moore who was so adamant the F-35A needed a gun that he writes: Regardless of the opinions of the USMC, USN or (F-35) Joint Program Office, the USAF must not become dismayed or discouraged by the difficulties in achieving the capabilities it has determined it required. Within the air to air and air to ground environments, the gun has proven to be a reliable and irreplaceable weapon. Even if Lockheed [Martin] declares it will not be able to fully meet the requirements and specifications the USAF desires, disallowing requirement relief sends a strong message that the capabilities offered by the gun are not negotiable. Important these are “Arguments For” only (there are probably very valid arguments against) and quite a few things can change in 11 years! His arguments include: On A-A use A-A missiles do not have a 100% PK, especially against advanced adversaries. Its limited missile supply could be exhausted quickly if faced by a significant number of low tech adversaries. The F-35 may not be able to egress from all adversaries based on its slower speeds and may need to stay and fight. When defending other assets, it may need to stand and fight regardless. Gun employment is less reliant on on-board systems working such as radar. All the modern tech in the world cannot protect an aircraft from the oldest weapon in A-A combat [when in range]. The Gun is simple, efficient, effective and always available. On Gun Pods It is seldom known when you will need a gun system so carrying it only when needed is not practical. Risk of RCS (Radar Cross Section) increase. Risk of having performance issues like the previous gun pods e.g. GAU 5 (Pave Claw) or SUU16/23 Additional logistics required. On A-G use Despite being poor in power compared to PGMs and IAMs, the gun will remain after those have been expended and can be used if called upon. This happened many time in Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. Can be used where PGM/IAMs are too powerful and can be prohibited or ill-advised such as urban situations. Can be used on moving targets. Gun considered the only true multi role weapon to be carried. Can be used to supress (rather than kill) and provide just a warning. Sometimes offers a quicker reaction time because of less setup over other ordnance. Less dependent on targeting sensors so can be used in event of failures with those. F-35A Lightning II - gun is port side (USAF) Sources Clashes (M.L.Michel III, 1997) Naval Institute Press Thud Ridge (J.M.Broughton, 1969) Crecy Publishing F-105 Thunderchief MiG Killers of the Vietnam War (P.Davies, 2014) Osprey Publishing F-8 Crusader Units of the Vietnam War (P. Mersky, 1998) Osprey Publishing MiG-21 Units of the Vietnam War (I.Toperczer, 2001) Osprey Publishing MiG-17 and MiG-19 Units of the Vietnam War (I.Toperczer, 2001) Osprey Publishing MiG-21 Aces of the Vietnam War (I.Toperczer, 2017) Osprey Publishing MiG-17 and MiG-19 Aces of the Vietnam War (I.Toperczer, 2017) Osprey Publishing USAF McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (P.Davies, 2013) Osprey Publishing USN McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (P.Davies, 2016) Osprey Publishing US Navy F-4 Phantom II MiG Killers 1972 -73 (B.Elward & P.Davies, 2002) Osprey Publishing US Navy F-4 Phantom II MiG Killers 1965 -70 (B.Elward & P.Davies, 2001) Osprey Publishing USAF F-4 Phantom II MiG Killers 1972 -73 (P.Davies, 2005) Osprey Publishing USAF F-4 Phantom II MiG Killers 1965 -68 (P.Davies, 2004) Osprey Publishing The Revolt of the Majors: How the Air Force changed after Vietnam (M.L.Michell III) RED BARON Project Volume I - III (1969) Weapon Systems Evaluation Group (WSEG) The Need for a Permanent Gun System on the F-35 JSF (Colonel C.Moore, 2007) Air Force Fellows Air University, Maxwell AF Base SIERRA HOTEL (C. R.ANDEREGG, 2001) Air Force History and Museums Program All the Missiles Work (Fino, SA, 2015) Air Force Research Institute Research Study of radar reliability and its impact on life-cycle costs for the APQ-113. 114, -120 and -144 radars (1973). Technical report by General Electric under contract to the USAF. McDonnell F-4E Phantom II (Baugher J, 2002) online ON WATCH Profiles from the National Security Agencys past 40 years (1984) National Security Agency War from above the clouds (Head WP, 2002) Air University Press Maxwell AFB Information on F-4E radar range from Forum entry by ex F-4 flyer Walt BJ (Bjorneby, Walter) Willie Driscoll interview from Podcast Episode 009 “Vietnam Ace” (V.Aiello, 2018 ) http://fighterpilotpodcast.com/ Title photo credit USAF

Vought F-8J Crusader - 2da Escuadrilla Aeronaval de Caza y Ataque, Comando de Aviación Naval Argentina, 1982

File Name: F-8 DATA & LOADOUT update File Submitter: FANATIC MODDER File Submitted: 21 March 2016 File Category: ini File Edits This is a total rework of loadout and data.ini of ALL F-8s. These include all TMF, TW and YAP models. You will find them inside three separate folders. I tried to be as realistic as possible regarding performance figures, empty weights etc. Please give me feedback about the results, what do you think about. CREDITS: - Column5 - Paulopanz - ace888 - ChampionsVA56 - Wrench - Diego - Ravenclaw ? (the seats) - TW - ? (the sounds) without you the update would not have been possible. if some credits are wrong and/or missing, please send me a PM. REQUESTS: - More hi-rez skins for all three families, like these in the screenshots. As you can see, in both TW and TMF the hi-rez are a real improvement. Skins for the RF-8G, especially late low-viz, will be vert much appreciated. - A proper cockpit as both TMF and TW look really dated now. - Proper ejection seats (better than before, but still not 100% accurate) Enjoy!! Note: TW models include DLC also. Click here to download this file

The story of Cliff Judkins’ “bailout” from his F-8 Crusader in the early 1960s. “I fell 15,000 feet and lived” by Cliff Judkins. Source: Chapter 7 of Ron Knott's book "Supersonic Cowboys." “Jud, you’re on fire, get out of there!” Needless to say that startling command got my attention. As you will read in this report, this was just the beginning of my problems! It had all started in the brilliant sunlight 20,000 feet above the Pacific Ocean as I nudged my F-8 Crusader jet into position behind the lumbering, deep-bellied refueling plane. After a moment of jockeying for position, I made the connection and matched my speed to that of the slowpoke tanker. I made the graceful task of plugging into the trailing fuel conduit so they could pump fuel into my tanks. This in-flight refueling process was necessary, and routine, because the F-8 could not hold enough fuel to fly from California to Hawaii. This routing mission was labeled “Trans-Pac,” meaning flying airplanes across the Pacific. This had been going on for years. Soon, after plugging-into the tanker, my fuel gauges stirred, showing that all was well. In my cockpit, I was relaxed and confident. As I was looking around, I was struck for an instant by the eeriness of the scene: here I was, attached, like an unwanted child, by an umbilicus to a gargantuan mother who was fleeing across the sky at 200 knots as though from some unnamed danger. Far below us was a broken layer of clouds that filtered the sun glare over the Pacific. In my earphones, I heard Major Van Campen, our flight leader, chatting with Major D.K. Tooker who was on a Navy destroyer down below. Major Tooker had ejected from his aircraft, the day before, in this same area, when his Crusader flamed out mysteriously during the same type of refueling exercise. At that time no one knew why his aircraft had flamed out. We all supposed it had been some freak accident that sometimes happens with no explanation. One thing we knew for sure, it was not pilot error. This accident had to be some kind of mechanical malfunction, but what? Our squadron had a perfect safety record and was very disturbed because of the loss of an airplane the day before. “Eleven minutes to mandatory disconnect point,” the tanker commander said. I checked my fuel gauges again, everything appeared normal. My thoughts were, “In a few hours I knew we’d all be having dinner at the Kaneohe Officer Club on Oahu, Hawaii. Then after a short rest, we’d continue our 6,000-mile trek to Atsugi, Japan, via Midway and Wake Island. Our whole outfit-Marine All Weather Fighter Squadron 323 - was being transferred to the Far East for a one-year period of operations. “Nine minutes to mandatory disconnect.” My fuel gauges indicated that the tanks were almost full. I noticed that my throttle lever was sticking a little. That was unusual, because the friction lock was holding it in place and was loose enough. It grew tighter as I tried to manipulate it gently. Then – thud! I heard the crack of an explosion. I could see the rpm gauge unwinding and the tailpipe temperature dropping. The aircraft had lost power – the engine had quit running – this is a flame-out! I punched the mike button, and said, “This is Jud. I’ve got a flame-out!” Unfortunately, my radio was already dead; I was neither sending nor receiving anything via my radio. I quickly disconnected from the tanker and nosed the aircraft over, into a shallow dive, to pick up some flying speed to help re-start the engine. I needed a few seconds to think. I yanked the handle that extended the air-driven emergency generator, called the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) into the slipstream, hoping to get ignition for an air start. The igniters clicked gamely, and the rpm indicator started to climb slowly, as did the tailpipe temperature. This was a positive indication that the re-start was beginning. For one tantalizing moment I thought everything would be all right. But the rpm indicator hung uncertainly at 30 percent of capacity and refused to go any faster. This is not nearly enough power to maintain flight. The fire warning light (pilots call it the panic light) blinked on. This is not a good sign. And to make matters worse, jet fuel poured over the canopy like water from a bucket. At the same instant, my radio came back on, powered by the emergency generator, and a great babble of voices burst through my earphones. “Jud, you’re on fire, get out of there!” Fuel was pouring out of my aircraft; from the tailpipe; from the intake duct; from under the wings, and igniting behind me in a great awesome trail of fire. The suddenness of the disaster overwhelmed me, and I thought: “This can’t be happening to me!” The voices in my ears kept urging me to fire the ejection seat and abandon my aircraft. I pressed my mike button and told the flight leader, “I’m getting out!” I took my hands off the flight controls and reached above my head for the canvas curtain that would start the ejection sequence. I pulled it down hard over my face and waited for the tremendous kick in the pants, which would send me rocketing upward, free of the aircraft. Nothing happened! This was very surprising. Both, the primary, and the secondary ejection procedures had failed and I was trapped in the cockpit of the burning aircraft. The plane was now in a steep 60-degree dive. For the first time, I felt panic softening the edges of my determination. I knew that I had to do something or I was going to die in this sick airplane. There was no way out of it. With great effort, I pulled my thoughts together and tried to imaging some solution. A voice in my earphones was shouting: “Ditch the plane! Ditch it in the ocean!” It must have come from the tanker skipper or one of the destroyer commanders down below, because every jet pilot knows you can’t ditch a jet and survive. The plane would hit the water at a very high speed, flip over and sink like a stone and they usually explode on impact. I grabbed the control stick and leveled the aircraft. Then I yanked the alternate handle again in an attempt to fire the canopy and start the ejection sequence, but still nothing happened. That left me with only one imaginable way out, which was to jettison the canopy manually and try to jump from the aircraft without aid of the ejection seat. Was such a thing possible: I was not aware of any Crusader pilot who had ever used this World War II tactic to get out of a fast flying jet. I had been told that this procedure, of bailing out of a jet, was almost impossible. Yes, the pilot may get out of the airplane but the massive 20 foot high tail section is almost certain to strike the pilot’s body and kill him before he falls free of the aircraft. My desperation was growing, and any scheme that offered a shred of success seemed better than riding that aircraft into the sea, which would surely be fatal. I disconnected the canopy by hand, and with a great whoosh it disappeared from over my head never to be seen again. Before trying to get out of my confined quarters, I trimmed the aircraft to fly in a kind of sidelong skid: nose high and with the tail swung around slightly to the right. Then I stood up in the seat and put both arms in front of my face. I was sucked out harshly from the airplane. I cringed as I tumbled outside the bird, expecting the tail to cut me in half, but thank goodness, that never happened in an instant I knew I was out of there and uninjured. I waited…and waited…until my body, hurtling through space, with the 225 knots of momentum started to decelerate. I pulled the D-ring on my parachute, which is the manual way to open the chute if the ejection seat does not work automatically. I braced myself for the opening shock. I heard a loud pop above me, but I was still falling very fast. As I looked up I saw that the small pilot chute had deployed. (This small chute is designed to keep the pilot from tumbling until the main chute opens.) But, I also noticed a sight that made me shiver with disbelief and horror! The main, 24 foot parachute was just flapping in the breeze and was tangled in its own shroud lines. It hadn’t opened! I could see the white folds neatly arranged, fluttering feebly in the air. “This is very serious,” I thought. Frantically, I shook the risers in an attempt to balloon the chute and help it open. It didn’t work. I pulled the bundle down toward me and wrestled with the shroud lines, trying my best to get the chute to open. The parachute remained closed. All the while I am falling like a rock toward the ocean. I looked down hurriedly. There was still plenty of altitude remaining. I quickly developed a frustrating and sickening feeling. I wanted everything to halt while I collected my thoughts, but my fall seemed to accelerate. I noticed a ring of turbulence in the ocean. It looked like a big stone had been thrown in the water. It had white froth at its center; I finally realized this is where my plane had crashed in the ocean. “Would I be next to crash?” were my thoughts! Again, I shook the parachute risers and shroud lines, but the rushing air was holding my chute tightly in a bundle. I began to realize that I had done all I could reasonably do to open the chute and it was not going to open. I was just along for a brutal ride that may kill or severely injure me. I descended rapidly through the low clouds. Now there was only clear sky between me and the ocean. This may be my last view of the living. I have no recollection of positioning myself properly or even bracing for the impact. In fact, I don’t remember hitting the water at all. At one instant I was falling very fast toward the ocean. The next thing I remember is hearing a shrill, high-pitched whistle that hurt my ears. Suddenly, I was very cold. In that eerie half-world of consciousness, I thought, “Am I alive!” I finally decided, and not all at once, “Yes, I think I am…I am alive!” The water helped clear my senses. But as I bounced around in the water I began coughing and retching. The Mae West around my waist had inflated. I concluded that the shrill whistling sound that I had heard was the gas leaving the CO2 cylinders as it was filling the life vest. A sense of urgency gripped me, as though there were some task I ought to be performing. Then it dawned on me what it was. The parachute was tugging at me from under the water. It had finally billowed out (much too late) like some Brobdingnagian Portuguese man-of-war. I tried reaching down for my hunting knife located in the knee pocket of my flight suit. I had to cut the shroud line of the chute before it pulled me under for good. This is when I first discovered that I was injured severely. The pain was excruciating. Was my back broken? I tried to arch it slightly and felt the pain again. I tried moving my feet, but that too was impossible. They were immobile, and I could feel the bones in them grating against each other. There was no chance of getting the hunting knife, but I had another, smaller one in the upper torso of my flight suit. With difficulty, I extracted it and began slashing feebly at the spaghetti-like shroud line mess surrounding me. Once free of the parachute, I began a tentative search for the survival pack. It contained a one-man raft, some canned water, food, fishing gear, and dye markers. The dye markers colored the water around the pilot too aid the rescue team in finding a down airman. All of this survival equipment should have been strapped to my hips. It was not there. It had been ripped away from my body upon impact with the water. “How long would the Mae West sustain me? I wondered. I wasn’t sure, but I knew I needed help fast. The salt water that I had swallowed felt like an enormous rock in the pit of my gut. But worst of all, here I was, completely alone, 600 miles from shore, lolling in the deep troughs and crests of the Pacific Ocean. And my Crusader airplane, upon which had been lavished such affectionate attention, was sinking thousands of feet to the bottom of the ocean. At that moment, I was struck by the incredible series of coincidences that had just befallen me. I knew that my misfortune had been a one-in-a-million occurrence. In review, I noted that the explosion aloft should not have happened. The ejection mechanism should have worked. The parachute should have opened. None of these incidents should have happened. I had just experienced three major catastrophes in one flight. My squadron had a perfect safety record. “Why was all of this happening?” was my thinking. In about ten minutes I heard the drone of a propeller-driven plane. The pot-bellied, four-engine tanker came into view flying very low. They dropped several green dye markers near me, and some smoke flares a short distance from my position. They circled overhead and dropped an inflated life raft about 50 yards from me. I was so pleased and tried to swim toward the raft. When I took two strokes, I all most blacked out due to the intense pain in my body. The tanker circled again and dropped another raft closer to me, but there was no way for me to get to it, or in it, in my condition. The water seemed to be getting colder and a chill gripped me. I looked at my watch, but the so-called unbreakable crystal was shattered and the hands torn away. I tried to relax and surrender to the Pacific Ocean swells. I could almost have enjoyed being buoyed up to the crest of one swell and gently sliding into the trough of the next, but I was in such excruciating pain. I remembered the words W.C. Fields had chosen for his epitaph: "On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia." In about an hour, a Coast Guard amphibian plane flew over and circled me as though deciding whether or not to land. But the seas were high and I knew he couldn't make it. He came in very low and dropped another raft; this one had a 200 -foot lanyard attached to it. The end of the lanyard landed barely ten feet from me. I paddled gently backward using only my arms. I caught hold of it and pulled the raft to me. Even before trying, I knew I couldn't crawl into the raft due to my physical condition. I was able to get a good grip on the side and hold on. This gave me a little security. The Coast Guard amphibian gained altitude and flew off. I learned later that he headed for a squadron of minesweepers that was returning to the States from a tour of the Western Pacific. He was unable to tune to their radio frequency for communications. But this ingenious pilot lowered a wire from his aircraft and dragged it across the bow of the minesweeper, the USS Embattle. The minesweeper captain understood the plea, and veered off at top speed in my direction. I was fully conscious during the two and half hours it took the ship to reach me. I spotted the minesweeper while teetering at the crest of a wave. Soon, its great bow was pushing in toward me and I could see sailors in orange life jackets crowding its lifelines. A bearded man in a black rubber suit jumped into the water and swam to me. "Are your hurt?" he asked. "Yes," I said, "My legs and back." I was now very cold and worried about the growing numbness in my legs. Perhaps the imminence of rescue made me light-headed, for I only vaguely remember being hoisted aboard the ship. I was laid out on the ship's deck as they cut away my flight suit. "Don't touch my legs! Don't touch my legs!" I screamed. I don't remember it. Somebody gave me a shot of morphine and this erased part of my extreme pain. An hour or so later a man was bending over me and asking questions. (It was a doctor who had been high-lined over from the USS Los Angeles, a cruiser that had been operating in the area.) He said, "You have a long scar on your abdomen. How did it get there?" I told him about a serious auto accident I'd had four years earlier in Texas, and that my spleen had been removed at that time. He grunted, and asked more questions while he continued examining me. Then he said, "You and I are going to take a little trip over to the USS Los Angeles; it's steaming alongside." Somehow they got me into a wire stretcher, and hauled me, dangling and dipping, across the watery interval between the Embattle and the cruiser. In the Los Angeles's sickbay, they gave me another shot of morphine, thank God, and started thrusting all sorts of hoses into my body. I could tell from all the activity, and from the intense, hushed voices, that they were very worried about my condition. My body temperature was down to 94 degrees; my intestines and kidneys were in shock. The doctors never left my side during the night. They took my blood pressure every 15 minutes. I was unable to sleep. Finally, I threw-up about a quart or more of seawater. After this my nausea was relieved a bit. By listening to the medical team, who was working on me, I was able to piece together the nature of my injuries. This is what I heard them saying. My left ankle was broken in five places. My right ankle was broken in three places. A tendon in my left foot was cut. My right pelvis was fractured. My number 7 vertebra was fractured. My left lung had partially collapsed. There were many cuts and bruises all over my face and body, and my intestines and kidneys had been shaken into complete inactivity. The next morning Dr. Valentine Rhodes told me that the Los Angeles was steaming at flank speed to a rendezvous with a helicopter 100 miles from Long Beach, California. At 3:30 that afternoon, I was hoisted into the belly of a Marine helicopter from the USS Los Angeles's fantail, and we whirred off to a hospital ship, the USS Haven, docked in Long Beach, CA. Once aboard the Haven, doctors came at me from all sides with more needles, tubes, and X-ray machines. Their reaction to my condition was so much more optimistic than I had expected. I finally broke down and let go a few tears of relief, exhaustion, and thanks to all hands and God. Within a few months I was all systems go again. My ankles were put back in place with the help of steel pins. The partially collapsed left lung re-inflated and my kidneys and intestines were working again without the need of prodding. The Marine Corps discovered the cause of my flame-out, and that of Major Tooker, the day before, was the failure of an automatic cut-off switch in the refueling system. The aircraft's main fuel tank was made of heavy reinforced rubber. When the cut-off switch failed, this allowed the tank to overfill and it burst like a balloon. This then caused the fire and flame out. We will never know why the ejection seat failed to work since it is in the bottom of the ocean. The parachute failure is a mystery also. Like they say, "Some days you are the dog and others you are the fire-plug." Do I feel lucky? That word doesn't even begin to describe my feelings. To survive a 15,000-foot fall with an unopened chute is a fair enough feat. My mind keeps running back to something Dr. Rhodes told me in the sickbay of the Los Angeles during those grim and desperate hours. He said that if I had had a spleen, it almost certainly would have ruptured when I hit the water, and I would have bled to death. Of the 25 pilots in our squadron, I am the only one without a spleen. It gives me something to think about. Maybe it does you as well. Note: Amazingly, Cliff Judkins not only survived this ordeal but he also returned to flight status. He was flying the F-8 Crusader again within six months after the accident. After leaving the Marine Corps he was hired as a pilot with Delta Airlines and retired as a Captain from that position. Contributed by CDR Doc Savage, USN (Ret) From MILITARY SEA SERVICES MUSEUM, INC. (Oct 2014)

F-8G Crusader in Marineflieger-Service (as usual, suggestions are welcome!) What happened in Real Life When the Luftwaffe looked for new aircraft in the late 50ies, it soon became apparent that it would either choose the F-104 Starfighter favoured by the Luftwaffe staff, or the Mirage III favoured by the secretary of defence for political reasons. Both of them however were dedicated nuclear options, and the Marine feared the nuclear armament of the Starfighter (or the Mirage) would lead to a subordination of the Marineflieger under Luftwaffe command and demote them to a nuclear auxiliary role. Worse, the Marineflieger in this conception would not participate in the naval war proper as envisioned by the Marine. The Marine thus was more than unhappy when the Starfighter was chosen and given to their air wings. Non-nuclear options were explored, like the Italian G.91, but none of them materialized as the secretary of defence aimed for the standardization of all German fighters and fighter bombers. However the Marine successfully rejected the nuclear strike role of their Marineflieger. Enter the F-8G Crusader The Crusader was simpler than the F-104G while offering good performance, but it also had the stigma of being a carrier based aircraft with lots of dead weight when used from airfields on land. The Marine however had its long term plans for a small carrier battle group and thus the Crusader was a very good choice. In fact, as supersonic speed was the parole of the day, and the Marine did not want to stay behind the Luftwaffe in that regard, the Crusader was one of the few choices that could be made. When the French also picked the F-8 for their small carriers, the decision was made final. The Marine wanted only a few changes to the original F-8, identical to the French ones minus the need to carry indigenous or radar guided air to air missiles. Later on the F-8G Crusader was refitted to use AS.34 Kormorran anti-ship missiles. F-8G Crusader, MFG 1, 1976 (sporting Norm 76 naval aviation camouflage)