A great disturbance in the Force

[column5 63]

Seems that a negative trend is developing in the modding community.

 

http://www.column5.us/dark.htm

 

I'd enjoy hearing other people's opinion on this matter.

[FalconC45 162]

I agree with C5. We shouldn't be d**ks.

 

Falcon

[+Dave 2,322]

You are right. And it does all boil down to ego. It was a sad incident indeed. If you didn't want people to use your work to begin with then you shouldn't of let people use it, or why even bother to mod? Of course we will get the obligatory response of people stealing his work etc. Well why punish the majority when we can handle that minority? I consider it the highest for of flattery when people use my mods etc. You got to be able to shake off and deal with those people but not act like a child and take all your things and leave. As you said Don...man up.

[Murphy'S 15]

Seems that a negative trend is developing in the modding community.

 

http://www.column5.us/dark.htm

 

I'd enjoy hearing other people's opinion on this matter.

 

the question is why the people which you talk about (or the others) did it? the better way to solve (or at least trying to do it) this tendancy is to know why.

 

but a sure thing is that's not good in any maneer to our community.

[column5 63]

I agree Dave. The analogy here is the RIAA treating everyone like a potential criminal when it comes to music piracy. When we put something on the internet, its a certainty that someone, somewhere will use it for a purpose we don't condone. For example a lot of warez sites link to the downloads on my site, but there is nothing I can do about it, so I ignore it. I would rather they were not able to, but I'm not going to take my entire site down and deny access to the 99% of users who are legitimate.

Edited December 6, 2007 by column5

[Viggen 644]

Nice article. I under stand that you modders can and will get pissed (some times easily) at us fans but doing that seems a little to rash. But this is the first of that sort of comment I've heard of. Hope it doesn't spread.

 

EDIT: C5 if you did that with your site then I would start kicking and screaming!

Edited December 6, 2007 by JA 37 Viggen

[+Dave 2,322]

I agree Dave. The analogy here is the RIAA treating everyone like a potential criminal when it comes to music piracy. When we put something on the internet, its a certainty that someone, somewhere will use it for a purpose we don't condone. For example a lot of warez sites link to the downloads on my site, but there is nothing I can do about it, so I ignore it. I would rather they were not able to, but I'm not going to take my entire site down and deny access to the 99% of users who are legitimate.

 

There are going to be a few rotten apples...(Ranger332). It is like that in every walk of life. You just have to roll over them and press on.

[Viggen 644]

Now who the hell is this Ranger332 guy? From the stuff on here I read was he trying to act like a TW employee or just an asshole?

[+NeverEnough 78]

What a nice, cogent summary of the situation! Well said, C5.

The "Great Disturbance In The Force" really developed some monentum a year ago November, when the referenced "change of heart" took place. My suspicion at the time was that the primary motivation was "if you want my stuff, you're going to have to pay for it". Some really great mods vaporized overnight. For those of us who had downloaded the material over the years, no problem. The situation seemed limited to the new members of the community, until the impossible hit those of us fortunate to have downloaded the mods before the "Disturbance". But, when the unexpected happens (backup harddrive crash!), it puts us all in the same boat.

This sim has endured far beyond it's original life expectancy due to the continous selfless contributions of many extraordinarily talented individuals. Thank you all, for so giving so much so freely....

[+Dave 2,322]

Now who the hell is this Ranger332 guy? From the stuff on here I read was he trying to act like a TW employee or just an asshole?

 

 

Long story.....from way back when but I do not want to derail C5's topic.

[Aintry 0]

Well, speaking for myself alone, if someone requests a file of mine that isn't uploaded somewhere, and if I still have the file, I'll give that person the file cheerfully. PM requests, forum requests, no problem.

[+Typhoid 231]

I agree. Its the open nature of this sim with the ability to mod, and then mod the mods that make this a long lasting sim and community.

 

It is superb. The financial investment in getting the programs to build some of this stuff should also be fully recognized and if someone wants or feels the need to charge for his stuff - that should be recognized as well. There are those sites to and ownership should be respected.

 

but the "I'm taking my toys home" attitude is nonsense.

 

but there will always be those who do that for whatever reason. The loss is more his than the rest of us, so be it and hope the door doesn't them in the @$$ too hard on his way out.

 

its an open sim (within limits) and that will generate mods and the demand for more mods. Hope it stays that way.

[+Dave 2,322]

You know it would be nice that if all the bad blood was forgotten. Everyone shook hands and turned over a new leaf. No animosity, no vendetta's, no grudges, just press on, become a community again. No territorial bounds. But it won't happen. Some aren't willing to say hey, no one was right, no one was wrong, let bygones be bygones, let's mod....let's fly and have fun. Its really sad to be honest. That something we do for fun....yes something that has no bearing on real life has turned into a real life problem.

[column5 63]

I agree with everyone. I do think however that this goes even beyond the situation I described in my article. Certainly that's the most aggregious example, but I think we as modders need to guard against any knee-jerk reactions, including being impatient with new people who for whatever reason don't search or use the knowledge base. Maybe I'm being affected by the charitable spirit of the Christmas season, but I think we should all take the opportunity to calm down, and refocus on maintaining a strong, healthy community. I'll be the first to admit that in the past there have been times when I have been guilty.

[+Dave 2,322]

I agree with everyone. I do think however that this goes even beyond the situation I described in my article. Certainly that's the most aggregious example, but I think we as modders need to guard against any knee-jerk reactions, including being impatient with new people who for whatever reason don't search or use the knowledge base. Maybe I'm being affected by the charitable spirit of the Christmas season, but I think we should all take the opportunity to calm down, and refocus on maintaining a strong, healthy community. I'll be the first to admit that in the past there have been times when I have been guilty.

 

Oh I have had my share of carrying cans of gas to the fire too. I will readily admit that. And admit I have been wrong at times and impatient at well.

[+JSF_Aggie 1,291]

Be civil, help the new guy, ignore the idiots. My two cents.

[+Gunrunner 314]

It all boils down to your view of "intellectual property", namely whether you consider you should have total control of your creation, or you trust your users to do the right thing; whether you are modding for your pleasure and the benefit of others, or only to boost you ego and get yourself a semblance of status.

 

The trouble with the modding community is that it is full of egos (most with good reasons) and little method (they are very very efficient individually but mostly inefficient at collaborating on a large open scale (not just a small selection of people, but everyone who cares)).

 

Ok, I'm starting to rant again on how modding should take some pages, no, whole chapters from the open-source book (open development, versionning, issue-tracking, precise and/or simple licences), so I'll stop here.

 

I think most modders in it only for the status are out already, and even if some do have a similar rhetoric in times of crisis (as two weeks ago), they do not act upon it and probably don't have real disdain for the simple users.

 

And quite frankly, it's not only the users keeping the game alive, it's the combination of modders and users, the modders alone can't help TW live, and pure users alone wouldn't make the games as attractive as it is with the wealth of elements added by the modding community, it's the subtle alchemy between TW's mode of operation and (relatively) open engine, the dedication of modders and the passion of simple users that makes it stick and allow everyone to find what they seek in the series.

[column5 63]

I don't think this has as much to do with intellectual property as it does with showing some class. As I alluded to in my article, this is supposed to be a fun diversion from the BS of day-to-day life.

[+Sundowner 4,826]

Well.....as one of the folks that has had enough just lately & taken my toys and gone home, I've decided to re-upload some of my stuff, starting with the camo version of the F-100D by request of USAFMTL.

 

One thing that I will add though is that whether you are a modder, a whiner or a fly on windscreen checker is that this is ...1, a game, 2, a hobby or 3, a combination of both.....but the main thing is its supposed to be fun.....a stress free zone, I get paid to get stressed at work, non of us need stress here.

[+Major Lee 18]

The dark of the night is over... A new day is dawning...

Now can we PLEASE stop all this lovee-dovee-huggee stuff and get to work????

[+whiteknight06604 934]

I wonder how much enjoyment people like that get out of life if they can't even deal with this sort of thing in a mature fasion?How sad is it that you spend so much time being angry and scared over a game.I never once worried "the unwashed masses" would wreck my pressious stuff.Hell my stuff stinks and I know it ,others have told me so and I still enjoy doing my skins.people ask(somtimes not) to use or change things I have released and I never get angry or feel threatened that my presious creations is being deflowered.Gawd the egotism involved in such a perspective is kinda funny really,almost a charecture of what people think of when you hear about a french chef or a holywood director.tp paraphrase WANG CHUNG everybody STFU and have fun tonight.

[column5 63]

I wonder how much enjoyment people like that get out of life if they can't even deal with this sort of thing in a mature fasion?

 

Worse than that, these people have to make sure no else gets any enjoyment either. Image you had downloaded some files that you really liked, and later lost them in a hard drive failure. You contact the author of those files to get replacements, and he tells you to bugger off. Pretty crappy.

Edited December 6, 2007 by column5

[Guest Diego]

I think this is as good a time as any to respond to the locked thread over at your site Don, since I'm obviously quoted in that article.

 

Class. I agree. Its all about that. Ask anyone what that means and you'll be surprised to find out that to have it means respecting the wishes of people when it comes to things that should be under their control. In regards to things that should be under my control, it seems I don't have the right to according to some of you. That is the main reason I removed my files. It had nothing to do with me going payware. Dave, although you pretend to not know why I pulled everything, even though we spoke to this very subject at length on the phone, you still offered up my stuff to someone else when you knew how I felt. Not much class at all. Although there is someone who does understand this basic bit of manners and its The Wrench. A testament to being from California, no doubt. Probably the only moderator who will not take instigate a flame fest, pour gas on the fire, take the last punch and lock a thread.

 

You all seem to think I'm punishing everyone by removing my files. Odd behavior since when all the drama surrounding my files blew up in a major s**t storm, not one person stood up and backed me publicly. Not one. Everyone looked at the soap opera and watched the destruction happen. Now you're wondering why the files were pulled? Odd. It was obvious people wanted my things when they were removed but not enough to try and keep them when they were freely available.

 

Besides like someone else said before, "your files are not even needed, anyone can make them in a heartbeat"...well? I agree. My ego isn't so large that I assume that what I made is the ultimate rendering of an object. Lots of heartbeats have gone by since then. Lots of new very artistic talent has come and gone since then...and yet nobody has stepped up and taken the time, research, effort to learn techniques, buy software and replace my un-needed objects. That is the greatest disturbance to the force. Not enough people willing to roll up their sleeves and do as Maj. Lee suggests - get to work.

 

So yes, I'm a lost cause, Don. A casualty of this community's war on basic common decency, respect for other peoples work and wishes. Want to see how any of you stand up? Hit the search button go look at how ANY infraction to the Mirage Factory's files are handled - a quick slap on the hand to the offender and a community reminder to respect the wishes...blah blah blah. Witness countless people do the same to your files and watch as the tumbleweeds roll by...........

[Silverbolt 104]

Hey all, i think it is going hot...and i really dont want see other battle here(evry time when somewone open a Thread about it just stop with a great discution ;( )-nothing again your article C5

So yes, I'm a lost cause, Don. A casualty of this community's war

the last think i want watch here is a war, i love this comunity, and i dont want destroyed for little things(and for great too )...

so i think we have to try compreend the people`s reasons and dont question about it, and offcourse, be patient becaus one day this people can be oursefes

bcause each one is one diferent person :)

 

 

 

Less talk, more mods!

work work work xD

 

\o/

Edited December 6, 2007 by Silverbolt

[Longestpants 1]

I think this is as good a time as any to respond to the locked thread over at your site Don, since I'm obviously quoted in that article.

 

Class. I agree. Its all about that. Ask anyone what that means and you'll be surprised to find out that to have it means respecting the wishes of people when it comes to things that should be under their control. In regards to things that should be under my control, it seems I don't have the right to according to some of you. That is the main reason I removed my files. It had nothing to do with me going payware. Dave, although you pretend to not know why I pulled everything, even though we spoke to this very subject at length on the phone, you still offered up my stuff to someone else when you knew how I felt. Not much class at all. Although there is someone who does understand this basic bit of manners and its The Wrench. A testament to being from California, no doubt. Probably the only moderator who will not take instigate a flame fest, pour gas on the fire, take the last punch and lock a thread.

 

You all seem to think I'm punishing everyone by removing my files. Odd behavior since when all the drama surrounding my files blew up in a major s**t storm, not one person stood up and backed me publicly. Not one. Everyone looked at the soap opera and watched the destruction happen. Now you're wondering why the files were pulled? Odd. It was obvious people wanted my things when they were removed but not enough to try and keep them when they were freely available.

 

Besides like someone else said before, "your files are not even needed, anyone can make them in a heartbeat"...well? I agree. My ego isn't so large that I assume that what I made is the ultimate rendering of an object. Lots of heartbeats have gone by since then. Lots of new very artistic talent has come and gone since then...and yet nobody has stepped up and taken the time, research, effort to learn techniques, buy software and replace my un-needed objects. That is the greatest disturbance to the force. Not enough people willing to roll up their sleeves and do as Maj. Lee suggests - get to work.

 

So yes, I'm a lost cause, Don. A casualty of this community's war on basic common decency, respect for other peoples work and wishes. Want to see how any of you stand up? Hit the search button go look at how ANY infraction to the Mirage Factory's files are handled - a quick slap on the hand to the offender and a community reminder to respect the wishes...blah blah blah. Witness countless people do the same to your files and watch as the tumbleweeds roll by...........

 

Words fail me.