A great disturbance in the Force

[+Dave 2,322]

As you can see folks.....there truly is a disturbance in the force.

[+Dave 2,322]

Well.....as one of the folks that has had enough just lately & taken my toys and gone home, I've decided to re-upload some of my stuff, starting with the camo version of the F-100D by request of USAFMTL.

 

One thing that I will add though is that whether you are a modder, a whiner or a fly on windscreen checker is that this is ...1, a game, 2, a hobby or 3, a combination of both.....but the main thing is its supposed to be fun.....a stress free zone, I get paid to get stressed at work, non of us need stress here.

 

Many thanks Ant for doing that too.

[+Major Lee 18]

Wow, this is just like the old days with stiggy around ... Diego, you were one of the best terrain tile guys around... This whole thing is just sad... Is this really about file distribution or is there something important going on in your life?

 

ML...

[column5 63]

Well crap now we can't fight anymore. Maybe zerocinco will come back...

[+Dave 2,322]

Ain't none of them coming back......

[column5 63]

Ain't none of them coming back......

 

Oops. Well my intent wasn't to get anyone banned, but I had to speak up about this attitude. It really bugged me that he wouldn't hook that guy up. Reminds me of those hollywood types that think they are so superior and crap all over their fans.

[+Dave 2,322]

Oops. Well my intent wasn't to get anyone banned, but I had to speak up about this attitude. It really bugged me that he wouldn't hook that guy up. Reminds me of those hollywood types that think they are so superior and crap all over their fans.

 

 

Well what can we say.....birds of a feather flock together. It's a poor attitude. Kindness is always rewarded down the road.

[+Zurawski 33]

With every intention to lighten the mood of this thread...."As a man, don't ya hate it when your wee willy sneaks out of your boxers when your walking from the mall to you car with arms full of packages?"... I know I do.

 

That said... The Internet is truly one of the most bizarre mediums to gauge moral compass. With few exceptions (and fewer exceptional people) could a person knowing another person so little, walk up and say or do what we do without blinking an eye.

 

Such is the the benefits of a detached emotionless void this Internet medium truly is...

 

I call many of you friends... yet I've never had the pleasure of shaking your hand. Many of you I trust like a brother... yet I've never looked into your eyes to gauge your moral center. I revel in your personal triumphs... yet I have no measure of their worth.

 

"Do unto others as you would have done unto you"....

 

Nowhere does this have more meaning than on the Internet... and more importantly on this website... and within this forum.

 

My wife, the sweet heart nurturing saint of a woman that she is... would likely tell everyone to "Knock it the f*** off and quit sweating the small stuff!" ... sigh ... she's so eloquent with words.

 

WTF does this have to do with anything? Well, the way I look at it... if I have to explain it, the intent is lost on you...

[+Dave 2,322]

Agreed, I let my hot head and emotions get in the way of thinking clearly. Most of you who know me, know that I go off half cocked, alot. So in the interest of harmony and the season I will fix those people I banned. After I talked to my voice of reason, Diego I understand your position. I just thought you could of helped someone out. I disagree with your way of thinking but I need to respect it. We started sniping and getting personal and for that I am truly and deeply sorry.

[column5 63]

I will stand by my original post--I still think there is a problem in the community. The proper course would have been to make my point, allow Diego to respond without interruption, and then let people make up their minds from there. Otherwise, things spiral, as they did.

 

I do not regret stating that zerocinco has a foul odor about him.

[Wrench 9,792]

(following the example, of trying to lighten the mood....)

One of the reason's I don't wear boxers....and size issues (don't forget, us Jewish guys need to be trimmed at birth )

 

Zur, you know, I can actually HEAR my wife saying the same thing...probably a little more colorfully. Pat don't believe in holding back.

 

I was actually going to stay completely out of this, simply because I didn't like where we all knew it would go....

 

Since I seem to be the most neutral one here, I really ain't got much to say.

 

Other than....

 

how much work would it be to simply recreate the Argie Scooters??? You'd just need new skins, decals and a few ini edits to rebuild them. The little hump thingys are already in the weapons pak. And I KNOW new ones were/are in the making, as I'd seen them in not to distant past, for the upcoming (and much delayed) Falklands rebuild.

 

And to mention a last point, the A-4AR isn't one of Diego's...it's from a dude calling himself "Ravins**t". It's sitting right here in my full objects install, with the readme saying so.

 

I respectfully suggest....

 

We should mod in the SHAAAADDDEEE!!!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+Sundowner 4,812]

Well I see that overnight [here in the uk] things have spiralled out of control, but whether everybody likes it or not, a modder has the right to say "no" IMHO either with or without reason, if something is no longer available its time for somebody to re-do it.....this whole game is a WIP...... one of continual improvement, I also think that personal feeling , insults etc whether deserved or not need to be kept to pm's, its up to the individual to decide who his friends are and not to be steered in any one direction.....peoples own experiences are the best judge of some-one.

 

BTW......I thought this topic was about modders in general, not just one person.

[HrntFixr 4]

BTW......I thought this topic was about modders in general, not just one person.

 

It was! Thread was being discussed reasonably on page 1, I turn to page two and BOOM... s**tstorm after one person posted, Truely sad.

[+Dave 2,322]

EDIT: Hell I didn't read page three. Damn you Dave and your Ban hammer. Lol. At any rate this all still applies to the modders here that feel like they are better than someone because they can spin poly's to make something neat. There are a lot of great modders here in this community and there are a few rotten apples. Everyone can learn from this.

 

And I was wrong for doing it due to my hot head. So they aren't anymore.

[+allenjb42 4,230]

As one of those who was refused help by Diego on some mods of his pilots I was naturally disppointed, but I have to respect his view, and it is, after all, his work that he can either release or not as he chooses. What I will say is that this was all done by pm and he was polite as he says in his post.

 

Of course it would be great if he brought his work back to the community, but he has said his piece and doesn't want to, so that's that.

 

In respect of the original problem of the lost files, I think that could have been handled more discreetly by C5 and USAFTMTL (by pm and email) and then none of this would have blown up, although I fully understand that it was on C5's site and Don can do what he wants there.

 

So, if that's all:

 

Meeting adjourned. Oh, I am sorry, sir I didn't mean to overstep my bounds, you say that

[+Gunrunner 314]

*insert foot in mouth, childish over-reaction*

 

USAFMTL>

You are hot-headed but fair and always make things right again once you cooled off, I think no-one can complain about that.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Gunrunner

[+streakeagle 867]

There have always been mod fans in the community that bow and pray to modders for new material.

There have always been modders who feel empowered by having a fan base dependent on them.

If modders weren't glory hounds, there would never be any sneak peaks months or even years before files were ready for download.

The mods would simply be posted when they were usable, perhaps even without a name in the credits other than an email address for tech support.

If modders weren't seeking popularity, they would never be offended by criiticism either.

So what if someone doesn't like your files?

Who cares what is posted about it?

Those that want the files will download them, those that don't want the files will whine about whatever it is they don't like.

To be offended by criticism is indicative of seeking approval in the first place.

 

Since public approval is the "pay" for free user mods, it is nice if the community "pays" the modder for his work.

But modders should recognize that people who are happy frequently make no comment at all, while people who are unhappy are the most vocal.

When you publish a file for everyone to see (or even a preview screenshot), expect to mainly hear from those who have a problem with it.

Consider yourself fortunate if you mainly get a positive response.

No matter how good a modder is, you can't change human nature.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

Including a EULA with free user mods made for this sim is hilarious to me: suggesting that no one should share them or change them without your approval defeats the whole purpose of having an open sim that supports free user mods!

If you post an unlocked file for free download, good luck on enforcing some arbitrary EULA.

There is no precedent in the real world for prosecuting people who share or mod something for no monetary gain when it was free to begin with.

 

Pulling files that were once available for free is equally funny to me.

You may technically own the rights to any file you create, but once it enters the public domain, you pretty much forfeit your right to control distribution.

Arguably, posting any unlocked file at open community websites pretty much makes it public domain.

It is just plain stupid to make a file available to the general public for free for years, then because you get mad at whoever, expect that everyone should stop using/sharing that file.

When I was a kid, there was a very politically incorrect term for someone who offers a gift and then demands it back: Indian-giver.

If someone wants to talk about "class", someone who is an "Indian-giver" has no class.

 

Payware is another story.

Files created for profit clearly cannot be shared without risking legal prosecution.

But even payware has limits to what you can enforce with a EULA.

The idea that of telling someone they can't post screenshots because they show payware addons in them is ludicrous.

It may be your model, but someone else made the game, and the owner of the likeness is the original manufacturer of the object being modeled.

If anyone gets prosecuted over a payware screenshot, it should be the payware provider if they haven't been licensed the right to distribute models based on objects created by very big companies who want their cut for things they designed and built.

 

Even funnier to me is trying to tell someone how to use a mod.

"You can't post that screenshot because it shows our mod being used in ways it wasn't intended!"

Again, the sim is open for a reason and any files produced for it are going to be used to suit the end user's taste.

I would love to see a lawsuit over screenshots showing 3d models from YAP mixed with fantasy elements, such as a Robotech fighter operating from a YAP carrier.

As long as someone paid you for your models and doesn't distribute them for free, you will have a hard time getting a judge to award a conviction for merely showing a screenshot of your files being used in a way you didn't intend.

 

It's cool if you make good mods and distribute them.

It's really cool if your mods are good enough to be payware.

But just because you are a good modder and/or charge money for your mods does not make you king of the game community.

 

At the same time, if you are an end-user, there is an old rule: don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Be kind to modders if you want to continue to get mods from them.

 

Over the years, many of the most popular modders have been easily offended and pulled their files.

If you can't live without a certain mod: download it while it is available and burn it to a cd/dvd and/or store it on a mirrored RAID array.

Sometimes mods come and go pretty quick around here.

 

If you are a late-comer and want an old mod that was pulled, posting such a request publicly will stir up a hornet's nest like this one.

Simply PM/email long-time veterans of the community who will usually help you directly or send you to someone who can help you without disturbing the Force at all.

Edited December 7, 2007 by streakeagle

[+Gunrunner 314]

CW2. Wells>

Sorry, you're perfectly right on that one, I just saw the ridiculous rhetoric and reacted just as stupidly. -_-

It's just so removed from common sense...

I removed it, it didn't help anyway and anything useful I could say has been said and well said by streakeagle anyway.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Gunrunner

[+Tailspin 3]

Including a EULA with free user mods made for this sim is hilarious to me: suggesting that no one should share them or change them without your approval defeats the whole purpose of having an open sim that supports free user mods!

If you post an unlocked file for free download, good luck on enforcing some arbitrary EULA.

There is no precedent in the real world for prosecuting people who share or mod something for no monetary gain when it was free to begin with.

 

AMEN!!!

[column5 63]

In respect of the original problem of the lost files, I think that could have been handled more discreetly by C5 and USAFTMTL (by pm and email) and then none of this would have blown up, although I fully understand that it was on C5's site and Don can do what he wants there.

 

It could have, but as I wrote in my article it is a symptom of a problem that I think is bigger than one person and their files. Outside of our normal infighting and hooliganism, it seems like tolerence and good-neighborlyness (not a word) are on a decline.

 

Its not about whether someone has the right to do something, its about whether they should do it. In fact, now that I have finally been informed about the history of this, I feel bad for Diego because his actions amount to surrender--by retreating he let the guys who misused his files win.

[column5 63]

Including a EULA with free user mods made for this sim is hilarious to me: suggesting that no one should share them or change them without your approval defeats the whole purpose of having an open sim that supports free user mods!

If you post an unlocked file for free download, good luck on enforcing some arbitrary EULA.

There is no precedent in the real world for prosecuting people who share or mod something for no monetary gain when it was free to begin with.

 

AMEN!!!

 

Its just a courtesy in this community that we extend to each other, to check with another modder before using their work. No one is forcing anyone to do it but it is generally accepted as a common courtesy. If the community was really big, like MSFS, I imagine this would fall by the wayside.

[Kirsten 0]

Amazing post, amazing community, going from rather rude one-liners to beautifully balanced comments with everything in it and a lot of class...........

Makes one very curious who the real people behind the user names are........ (only met Stratos up to now)

 

A very quiet, non modding Derk

[+Major Lee 18]

If someone wants to make mods for release to the SF community, please feel free. Someone will enjoy them and probably thank you. If not, keep them to yourself and stay in your own sandbox. Life is too short for this kind of animosity.

Just remember this:

 

Publicly released file = Genie out of the bottle (they don't go back in...)

 

Can we just get back to work now...

 

[Guest 531_Ghost]

As one that has benefitted from many of the mods out there at many sites, I for one would like to thank, publically, those that contribute their time and efforts to this and any other sim we fly. For without your efforts, there wouldn't be as much fun for the rest of us non modders. We all have talent, mine just happens to be on the hardware end of the industry. I spend a lot of time helping those that need their (if they have CH Products) controllers set up. Both through Control Manager and in the sim. Why might you ask? Well, I enjoy it, as do those that mod the game. All I ask, is, we, try to see the world through the eyes of Walt Disney. Use your imagination, get out of the box, shift that paradigm. If you want to try your hand at modding, there's plenty of help for those out there that are willing to try. How do you think I came up with the CH Powered Suncom throttle? Or the CH Powered Franken-Potato, or my next in line, CH Powered TQS and F22? Those are all mods I've done, and I'll continue to look for more to do. Modders, one and all, at some point, there has to be (I can only hope) a middle ground that can be had by all. Both free and payware. The only adjustments IMO that are needed are in the attitudes. Life is short, to short to squabble over the internet. I gave that up, shortly after my Pop passed away. Ask anybody that visits Frugals and knows of me, (Frugal, IJ, Nutty...) Well anyway, If I went off topic a bit, sorry. Just thought I'd finally chime in and say hi and hope you all have a great holiday season, so:

 

Merry Christmas

Happy Chanukah

 

Take care.

[Piloto 3]

Just to say that nothing i wasnt aware about and saw trought inspite of beying relatively new around....i had a couple discussions about the lack of respect user-modder-user and just want to say its just stupid to be pety around a thing that should be fun and enternainment for all of us. Im no modder, neither "modder wannabe" as i know i lack very important basis, but i try and compensate by reading and asking, so im getting there.

We all, in sometimes of our life seen bad reviwes either from our work or lives but we kept going and thats how it should be, here and in life with the diference that in here it should be friendly and entertainment because the stress and problems of real life are out in the real world...no room for them in the www, and especially in a community of aircraft lovers and enthusiasts like this. We all had beefs with some one that doesnt share our point of view here in sometimes (ive had mines with Usaf, Cargo, Hornet...i know, im hotheaded too ) but we should all take two deep breaths and relax and go offline for a while...i know everybody would feel much better and this would be gone.

Acting like God or plain old spoiled brat wouldnt be the most correct procedure sometimes...

 

Just my two cents and thoughts.