Wings Over Israel [Official Thread]

[+Spectre_USA]

I discovered something neat on my last flight.

 

When an AI wingman makes "Ace" status, their name displayed when hitting "Y" or "F6" is no longer their callsign, i.e. Eagle 13, but their name, i.e. Yitzhak Shamir.

 

The only problem is that the next guy, presumably Eagle 14, is relegated to 13. No biggie, except he seems lost, hangs out on the threshold of the runway, and

never takes off. At least on the 1st flight I witnesed.

 

Weird.

[+Johan217]

The only problem is that the next guy, presumably Eagle 14, is relegated to 13. No biggie, except he seems lost, hangs out on the threshold of the runway, and

never takes off. At least on the 1st flight I witnesed.

That would explain why I am sometimes seeing wingmen that don't take off. Maybe a workaround is to designate aces as wingmen rather than element leaders (i.e. put them in the 14 position).

 

By the way, armed recon missions now work in campaigns. First time I ever saw this :)

[BattlerBritain]

I had fun last night. I put 'The Mossie' into WOI for the Israelis and took it for a spin.

 

It seems to stall quite easily and spin as well, but the real good thing is that using aircraft stall recovery techniques actually seem to work.

 

Centralise the stick, apply opposite rudder and, if needed, push the stick forward and it recovered from a flat spin.

 

AI seemed to recover as well - just took a while (and about 5,000ft).

 

Also put the Meteor into WoI and it flies with the Canopy Open. Really 'Cool'

 

But using rockets such as HVAR and 60lb rocket when you hit the trigger all the rockets fire at once. Anyone of a tweek to get it back to firing one rocket for each trigger pull?

[Gr.Viper]

But using rockets such as HVAR and 60lb rocket when you hit the trigger all the rockets fire at once. Anyone of a tweek to get it back to firing one rocket for each trigger pull?

TK, chanded the way rockets fire - see here.

[triplethr3at]

The f-84 cockpit won't close either.

[+Johan217]

The f-84 cockpit won't close either.

You need to comment these lines out (using ; ) in the aircraft data.ini as in the example below:

 

[Canopy]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

;DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_SPEED

;Setting[1].Angle=30.0

;Setting[1].DeployValue=15.0

;Setting[1].RetractValue=10.0

;MaxDeflection=30.0

;MinDeflection=0.0

;ControlRate=0.3

;AnimationID=5

;MinExtentPosition=1.8169,0.5474,-0.9940

;MaxExtentPosition=-1.8544,-0.4772,0.0110

[BattlerBritain]

Cheers Johan. I'll give that a go.

 

Now to figure out how to get my joystick to behave itself when firing rockets.

[MigBuster]

Interesting...

 

 

"Well, many things you do can affect the campaign.

 

All the static aircraft (fighter and bomber types) are drawn from the campaign squadron, so destroying them would directly reduce the number of aircraft they have available. Similarily, destroying tanks affects the ground units strength.

 

Transport aircraft (both on the ground and in th air) "carry" virtual supply, so their destruction reduce the resupply the unit is set to receive.

 

There are other indirect effects, destroying hangars may also reduce the number of aircraft they have available in the future, and destroying warehouse and fuel tanks also affect their supply status. But these effects are more indirect, and may not be noticable from mission to mission."

 

TK

Edited February 28, 2008 by CoolHand29

[Emp_Palpatine]

Very interesting!

I used to straff and shoot down whatever I can, I'll do it even more!

[FastCargo]

Interesting...

 

 

"Well, many things you do can affect the campaign.

 

All the static aircraft (fighter and bomber types) are drawn from the campaign squadron, so destroying them would directly reduce the number of aircraft they have available. Similarily, destroying tanks affects the ground units strength.

 

Transport aircraft (both on the ground and in th air) "carry" virtual supply, so their destruction reduce the resupply the unit is set to receive.

 

There are other indirect effects, destroying hangars may also reduce the number of aircraft they have available in the future, and destroying warehouse and fuel tanks also affect their supply status. But these effects are more indirect, and may not be noticable from mission to mission."

 

TK

 

That's some fairly in depth stuff considering this is supposed to be a 'lite sim' campaign engine.

 

Thanks for the info!

 

FastCargo

[Viggen]

Excellent. Has he said anything about whether when you take out all the aircraft on an airbase if a new unit is placed there? I had Cairo-West filled with MiG-21PFs and Il-28s. After a mission or two I had Tu-16s there.

[Canadair]

I have been waiting bfore asking this one.

Is the AI-guided weapons problem solved?

Do now AI-flights (not player controlled),release guided weapons (i.e.mavericks, lgbs (if available in WOI install) at their assigned targets?

Can anyone do this test pleasE?

 

Any experiments abou this?

[Viggen]

AI in SFP1/WOV/WOE always fired Mavs and LGBs for me.

[Canadair]

AI in SFP1/WOV/WOE always fired Mavs and LGBs for me.

 

With all respect, I don't think so. AI flights, NOT PLAYER's mission do not release their guided weapons, mav, lgbs or whatever, unless they are on CAS or SEAD mission, in which case they will attack.

Try escorting a flight of bomber armed with lgb, or cruise missiles, adn they won't attack.

Has this been changed in WOI. And in case that works in SFP1, (f only!) please tll me since I dlike to fix that

[column5]

That's some fairly in depth stuff considering this is supposed to be a 'lite sim' campaign engine.

 

There was a thread over at TW forum recently with streakeagle and TK talking about jet combat board games, and it kind of made me realize that a lot of the campaign system is influenced by tabletop wargame conventions. I might have been the only one who missed that for all these years...

[+SidDogg]

WE KNOW THERE ARE MANY VARIATIONS OF ARAB AIRCRAFT.....

 

.....ANYONE UP FOR LIBYAN MIRAGE 5D's ????

 

 

 

OH YEAH..... I KILLED HIM 4 EFING WIT MY WINGMAN

 

 

SNEAKY SOB's

Edited February 29, 2008 by USAFMTL
Sid, one screen shot.

[Emp_Palpatine]

When did you meet him?

He bears the post-1977 marks. I hope you fought him not in Yom Kippour campaign, as there he must have worn the egyptian-like marking Libya used between 1969 and 1977

[Lexx_Luthor]

FastCargo::

That's some fairly in depth stuff considering this is supposed to be a 'lite sim' campaign engine.

It never was, even at the start.

 

AIM-4 Falcon <--> Lite Sim .... contradiction

[+SidDogg]

When did you meet him?

He bears the post-1977 marks. I hope you fought him not in Yom Kippour campaign, as there he must have worn the egyptian-like marking Libya used between 1969 and 1977

 

I DID FITE HIM IN YOM KIPPUR

 

IM WELL ON MY WAY TA BEAT DA GAME

[+streakeagle]

There was a thread over at TW forum recently with streakeagle and TK talking about jet combat board games, and it kind of made me realize that a lot of the campaign system is influenced by tabletop wargame conventions. I might have been the only one who missed that for all these years...

 

For jet air combat purchase:

SPi's Air War (re-released by TSR in the early 80's)

GDW's Air Superiority (jet fighters from the 1980s)/Air Strike (attack fighters from the 1980s)/Desert Falcons (paper equivalent to WOI) by J.D. Webster

Clash of Arms Speed of Heat (paper equivalent to WOV) by J.D. Webster

Avalon Hill's Flight Leader (a commercial release of a USAF training game "Check Six!" designed by a USAF pilot)

 

Read/study the volumes of rules associated with these games.

Spend hours playing scenarios modeling mere minutes or even seconds of game time.

 

Then you will come to understand a few things:

1) People were playing detailed, realistic jet combat flight sims using maps, paper, pencil, and dice long before PCs got beyond arcade versions.

2) The rules for the board games were as complex and error prone as PC sims (the errata for some of the rules were almost as extensive as the original rules).

3) People were modding these games to enchance the realism and expand the planeset by studying aerodynamics and real-world data on the aircraft and weapons.

4) TK was one of these board game modders whose work was published within the Air Superiority/Air Strike community.

5) SFP1 is a PC evolution of the board game mechanics with a similar balance between simple yet detailed modeling.

 

PCs have almost killed board gaming altogether.

If you think hardcore flight simmers are a small niche market, you haven't been a tactical board game wargamer.

I became a wargamer when the market was at its peek: Avalon Hill, GDW, and a handful of other companies were competing to produce the best possible land, air, and sea simulations ranging from 1:1 unit scales with turns measured in seconds to global WW3 scales with turns measured in days or weeks.

The arrival of PCs led to a slow collapse of the market and the big companies behind it.

Sadly, the combat flight sim market is following the same path: sure you can still find new flight sims, but new releases are rare and are evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

 

Both single player and multiplayer combat flight sim fans who genuinely enjoy studying air combat can have a lot of fun and learn a lot about the subject by playing the old board games.

Edited February 29, 2008 by streakeagle

[column5]

I never played air combat board games but I have played World in Flames, Empires in Arms, The Longest Day and some other fairly well known wargames. I'm still waiting for WiFPC to come out (akin to Duke Nukem Forever). Might be fun to pick up that new game you were discussing at TW.

[+streakeagle]

The new game will be the most detailed ever published.

It is almost a PC flight sim simplified enough to resolve movement and energy state changes without using high level math.

Even if the new game gets published and I get my copy, I am not sure I will ever get to fully learn the rules.

Even if I learn the rules and play a few games by myself, odds are that I will never meet anyone else willing to play it.

In this day and age, its hard to find someone willing to take the time and effort to learn a game like chess, much less study endless pages of rules and complicated air data charts to spend a few hours trying to recreate 30 to 90 seconds of close-in air combat.

From the early pdf samples of this game I had years ago, I think this new game will accomplish what I was trying to do years ago with 1/144 models on wooden sticks: 3d flight sim with the most realistic physics possible without using calculators/computers to do the math.

Of course, in most respects, PC flight sims such as the SFP1 series have surpassed this type of game in both realism and fun.

But, there is a big difference that makes board games more popular with some people:

You have time to think about your moves, i.e. the board games are about using your head to come up with the best solution rather than having good reflexes and thinking quickly.

It is not a stick and rudder game at all, more of a super complex game of chess that requires log keeping and a vivid imagination.

[Gregorius24]

I have to give credit to TK and apologize for my complaints about A-G targeting - CCIP is available for Kfir C2 and F-16A, and it functions very well. It is not perfect - and that's fine!

 

I LOVE THIS GAME

Edited February 29, 2008 by Gregorius24

[Emp_Palpatine]

I DID FITE HIM IN YOM KIPPUR

 

IM WELL ON MY WAY TA BEAT DA GAME

Oh...

I hoped libyan roundels were to be modeled with their modifications as historically as egyptian and syrian ones.

[+JonathanRL]

I just duked it out with a Jordanian F-104A in 1967. Only requirement for me not getting my ass kicked would be clear skies...

Had to add a cockpit to it tough, and I added the J-39 Cockpit, just because I did not have the time to enjoy the plane in WoE...

 

Thanks to Bounder, I now also can fly the Hunter. I scored a Mirage in that thing. Could have scored the one on the second picture as well, but I ran out of Ammo. She is a nice bird to fly.

Edited February 29, 2008 by tigertompa