Mig-29's for Lebanon

[lazboy 0]

Moscow is to give 10 MiG-29 fighter jets to Lebanon free of charge, says Russia's state news agency Interfax.

 

The head of the Russia's defence cooperation body, Mikhail Dmitriyev, said the consignment was "a form of military and technical assistance".

 

"We view the Lebanese army as the main guarantor of this nation's stability, therefore the armed forces of this country must be strengthened," he said.

 

Delivery of the jets to Lebanon will also be paid for by the Russians.

 

Mr Dmitriyev said the jets would be fully repaired and upgraded before being delivered.

 

He added that the two countries were also discussing a possible sale of Russian armour to Beirut, reported Reuters. Hr said this was possible because of Lebanon's recent stability.

 

Lebanon's military capability is greatly outweighed by Arab neighbour Syria, with which is has a history of sometimes strained relations, and the Jewish state Israel which lies to the south. Lebanon and Israel have never signed a peace treaty and Israeli fighter jets continually violate Lebanese airspace in what the Israeli military describes as reconnaissance missions, but which are condemned by the United Nations.

[+ST0RM 145]

Moscow is to give 10 MiG-29 fighter jets to Lebanon free of charge, says Russia's state news agency Interfax.

"We view the Lebanese army as the main guarantor of this nation's stability, therefore the armed forces of this country must be strengthened," he said.

 

Really? They cant even protect their own country from outside influence who have taken over.

 

Mr Dmitriyev said the jets would be fully repaired and upgraded before being delivered.

 

So the Russians are going to openly give away weapons to Hezbollah. Awesome.

 

-S

[MigBuster 2,875]

Fully repaired!! how nice of them lol - So some 20 year old MiG-29As to work along side their Hawker Hunters! - dont think even Syria would be bothered about confronting them tbh.

 

Can only think its to help the national army deal with Hezbollah etc.

[FastCargo 412]

We are NOT going there folks. I see very quickly where this thread is heading.

 

For those who haven't figured it out yet, politics and military affairs (even equipment sales) are VERY intertwined and the line is VERY fuzzy.

 

Tread lightly.

 

FC

[Nesher 629]

ohhh practice jets for the IAF... yay :P

[+SidDogg 130]

Moscow is to give 10 MiG-29 fighter jets to Lebanon free of charge

 

.....

 

G**---DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shok:

 

HOW MUCH BETTER CAN YOU F*****G GET???????!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 17, 2008 by SidDogg

[+Jarhead1 27]

Dude, seriously, can u watch ur mouth when u post? I mean come on, u can make ur point with out G**---DAMN and F*****G cant u?

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Odds are these planes will soon be grounded, the way the mirages were in the 1970's.

 

The fact is the lebanese state lack the monopoly of violence in its own country, as shown the quite frequent fightings with islamists. And as shown by the Hezbollah -with its own armed forces, networks and stuffs- power.

 

My guess is indeed that Lebanon will sadly have other things to do than to fly fancy CAP and aerial parades with those planes, as the Army is the sole thing keeping the state stabilized. Money, time and efforts will be spend elsewhere.

I just can see, apart from the symbolic point of view, how can those planes be useful. They won't stand a chance against the IDF or the SARAF. But if it can help the Lebanese State to assert itself and gain in legitimacy and prestige, that's the way to go! Steps by steps, weakening all those islamists and such, and going back to the prosperity and stability of before the 1970.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Emp_Palpatine

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Odds are these planes will soon be grounded, the way the mirages were in the 1970's.

 

The fact is the lebanese state lack the monopoly of violence in its own country, as shown the quite frequent fightings with islamists. And as shown by the Hezbollah -with its own armed forces, networks and stuffs- power.

 

My guess is indeed that Lebanon will sadly have other things to do than to fly fancy CAP and aerial parades with those planes, as the Army is the sole thing keeping the state stabilized. Money, time and efforts will be spend elsewhere.

I just can see, apart from the symbolic point of view, how can those planes be useful. They won't stand a chance against the IDF or the SARAF. But if it can help the Lebanese State to assert itself and gain in legitimacy and prestige, that's the way to go! Steps by steps, weakening all those islamists and such, and going back to the prosperity and stability of before the 1970.

 

I'm sure the pilots will be proficient with the 10 hours a year of flight time they will be getting. Within 3 years at least 2 of them will be grounded to be cannibalized for spare parts.

[triplethr3at 0]

I dont realy know what the russians are getting at. 10 MiG for free is nice but it realy isnt helping anyone. (syrian airforce and IAF can easily handle such a threat)

 

 

Since its the holidays and the Russians are in a MiG giving mood you guys think they'll give me one for Hannukah? Heck with santa Im writing to Putin

[+Jarhead1 27]

IF thats the case, all i want for X-mas is a frogfoot, a fulcrum, a flogger, and a foxbat, lol.

[Fubar512 1,350]

IF thats the case, all i want for X-mas is a frogfoot, a fulcrum, a flogger, and a foxbat, lol.

 

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.10/k...&topic_set=

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

So the Russians are going to openly give away weapons to Hezbollah. Awesome.

 

Can we keep all broad generalisations out of this topic please? Hezbollah only represents unthinking, idiots, and a very small number at that. That's like saying everyone south of the Mason Dixon is a member of the clan, Poms whinge or Kiwis shag sheep... and the latter is only true if they beat Oz in cricket!

 

 

Any word on the condition of the Mig-29s that are being sold? Algeria recently signed a contract for advanced model Mig-29SMTs but were refusing to take them after two examples that were delivered were discovered to be overhauled 20 year old aircraft, not new builds (Even though their airframe was reduced close to zero hours flight time, or close to it.) I'm just curious to see how this plays out, especially considering the maintenance that's required for older model Fulcrums.

[TheChief2000 0]

Fully repaired!! how nice of them lol - So some 20 year old MiG-29As to work along side their Hawker Hunters! - dont think even Syria would be bothered about confronting them tbh.

 

 

Exactly! My first thought was are these the 29s that Algeria sent back because they thought they were buying brand new airframes? I bet they'll be transported by ship.

Edited December 18, 2008 by TheChief2000

[JediMaster 451]

Jets without an infrastructure to support them (pilots, maintenance, fuel, ammo, etc) are useless.

[+ST0RM 145]

Can we keep all broad generalisations out of this topic please?

 

I believe FC already made this clear shortly after I posted, so you're second reply on the same thing isnt necessary, I got it the first time.

[eliahu2006 0]

I posted the funcional pictures of Lebanese Air Force Mig-29 from ThirdWire Wings Over Israel:

 

 

 

[+whiteknight06604 932]

Really? They cant even protect their own country from outside influence who have taken over.

 

 

 

So the Russians are going to openly give away weapons to Hezbollah. Awesome.

 

-S

 

I'm of Christian Lebanese decent.Any country that deals with or gives weapons to terrorists like Hezbollah is not a friend of the world.Now I will applaud Russia if they arm the pro western Lebanese and help kill terrorist.To do anythging to release the Lebanese from a Syrian strangle hold is also welcome anything else is just contributing to terror.Hezbollah are nothing short of thugs killers and extorsionists.It will be a sad day for peace and freedom if they are treated as anything but the scum they are.

[+whiteknight06604 932]

"I dont realy know what the russians are getting at. 10 MiG for free is nice but it realy isnt helping anyone. (syrian airforce and IAF can easily handle such a threat)"

 

Most likely It's just a scam to get the Lebanese to pony up for spares and missiles.they will make back the money from 10 tired old jets soon and will have a foot in the door for future weapon sales.

[Salamander67 0]

MiG-29's are no real threat to anyone in the area. They wont do any good as mud-movers in the clashes between Hezbollaha and the army, and they wont pose much of a threath for either the Israelis or the Syrians.

 

However, fast-movers are nice to show on flypasts, and as noted this will probably open up for more sales of hardware that might be really usefull (lightly used tanks and APC's).

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

MiG-29's are no real threat to anyone in the area. They wont do any good as mud-movers in the clashes between Hezbollaha and the army, and they wont pose much of a threath for either the Israelis or the Syrians.

 

Yes and no. Part of the reason the Lebanese reactivated their Hunters was that the siege of Nahr el-Bared camp pointed out that they were lacking a fixed wing strike capability for situations such as that (In that situation, they modified a UH-1H to drop two 250kg bombs to provide close air support for the Army).

 

Remember, Lebanon is still recovering from the De-facto Syrian control and occupation, so nation building, recovery and stability are still the prime motivations of the government. The aircraft will be more of a symbol that the government is taking seriously it's promise to restore order and protect the population from the threats from Hezbollah and other Pro-Syrian and Pro-Israeli factions. That said, the aircraft won't pose a threat to either Israeli or Syria (who have aircraft ratios of roughly 25:1 and 30:1 respectively), but even still, I would be surprised if it suddenly became very hard for them to import parts for the Migs over the next few years.

[Southernap 1]

I would also hazard that the Russians are looking for friendly ports to have thier Med based fleet visit for fuel and supplies. So that maybe tied in with the deal.

"I give you these top of the line fighters to replace your fifty year plus old British built aircraft, along with free overhaul at my factories. In exchange you let me build a couple of piers and fuel depot and a few warehouses and let my warships and other flagged ships visit your ports free of charge. What do you say?"

[Salamander67 0]

The aircraft will be more of a symbol that the government is taking seriously it's promise to restore order and protect the population from the threats from Hezbollah and other Pro-Syrian and Pro-Israeli factions.

 

That's exactly what I meant, although the combat value of a few MiG's is quite small (thinking about the experience of the pilots & ground crew, possible lack of spares, and so on) their importance in restoring national pride and showing that the national armed forces are something more than yet another armed gang should not be underestimated.

 

...and as also noted, I doubt that the Russians are just giving away things because they're in a good mood. Further arms sales or docking rights are probably high on their wish list.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,554]

I read this topic and only Southernap got the point, the migs aren the point for this "trade"!!!! The russians make new friends, when you give someone some old miG-29 for free, so it`s ok the state is lucky an accepts maybe some other "trades" in the near future. Those frames are useless for russia, but not the following effect of a new export and support possibility.

 

You can`t see it in the way like, IDF playground and can`t stand a chance against whoever... but see it as a bussines man, war is nothing more than bussines and If you don`t understand: watch "Lord of War" great movie!

 

(studying economics)

Edited December 19, 2008 by 76.IAP-Blackbird