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malibu43

Any new (or old) SF2 mods in the works?

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I was just curious what (if any) total conversion mods are in the works for the SF2 series. A loooooonnnnnnnnggg time ago, I think Dave mentioned that there were plans to rework ODS and OTC for the new series. Things seem pretty slow around here right now, so I'm not expecting that either of these are coming up any time soon. But I was just curious if anyone's working on 'em or not.

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I've converted on my own a couple things, but Dave is busy elsewhere, so not sure myself.

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Things are slow because for me, I have lost interest. I know a few other regular modders who have lost interest as well. I think we have taken the series as far as we can and to be honest, TK's support is great but always redoing mods to make it work with this patch or patch has gotten old. Do not get me wrong I love all the stuff TK adds though, it just gets hard to keep up.

 

But that's the reality of it. I am not saying I won't mod again but I am not going to break my neck either or bug team members of projects. Sorry if I sound crass, not my intention. Seven years is a long time to mod a sim.

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Super Dave has nailed it right on the head.

 

1) Right now it's the wrong time of year...real life intrudes during this time, with schools going on break or semesters ending, Christmas, New Years, etc. there is just too much going on with events, friends and family to spend a whole lot of brain bytes concentrating on a mod.

 

2) Furious rates of releases and patches. TK has been working hard to get these new releases and patches that add functionality and beauty to the sim (DX10 effects), but because some of the releases fundementally change how the sim works, it tends to 'break' a lot of things...things which take time to mod older stuff to work with properly. If you think about it, within the space of one year, TK has released 4 sims, with an engine update in each sim, and not one, but 2 seperate patches and now a combo pack! For projects that can take a year or more, it gets frustrating...just as you think you've finished and/or you've got your sim running the way you want, another patch comes out and borks up the whole thing.

 

3) Burn out. This one is simple. It's real easy to lose interest on something if you spend too much time on it. Occasionally it's nice to take a break. And believe me, most people don't care that you want a progress report on a particular mod...in fact, I'll be happy to tell you to pound sand if you get annoying about it. Same goes with nitpicking. Most times, modders will typically want to hear about stuff that causes a crash, or is blatantly messed up (gear doesn't move correctly, etc) right after a new release. However, things like having the proper glareshield cover...yea, save that until later, once the mod has been out a while. "Do not meddle in the affairs of modders, for they are subtle and quick to anger."

 

But there are things you can do to help.

 

1) First, read the damn readme, 90% percent of the time, the readme will have a date the mod has been released. If there have been patches since that time, there is a good chance the mod is no longer completely compatible with that patch level. As part of this also, use the search function...90% of the time, the question you want to ask has probably already been answered somewhere. And look at the knowledge base...learn how the sim works.

 

2) Use that knowledge...learn how to fix things yourself first. Don't be afraid to try things out yourself. Just keep your modding predictable, and reversible.

 

3) Finally, if you improve enough in your own abilities, start taking it upon yourself to mod. If you can improve old things to work in the newer levels, do so! If you can upload a QUALITY product, with the proper credits, completions and permissions, it will make life easier for everyone. KillerBee's weapons pack is a prime example. This will make life easier for everyone.

 

Though TK has done a great job of updating stuff...I hope he takes it easy for a while...I'd like to catch up at some point.

 

FC

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I can second that too.

but all my mods that will be done in the future will be for

Generation 2.

maybe a bit off topic, but what about reorganising the SF2 download section?

There are more and more gen 2 mods. i thing it would be good to organize it like the Gen1 d/l section...

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A quick observation from a guy who came late to this sim:

 

I can completely understand what you guys are saying about burnout. I read about the Wings Over series for a long time, how it was all about the mods, about all the various scenarios that had been created. I was always busy monkeying with something else, Falcon, IL-2, whatever...When I finally gave WoX a try I was amazed, and that's an understatement, at the content that had been produced by what for all intents and purposes are volunteers. The quality and scope of what some of you guys have created is amazing and honestly TK should be thanking you fellas every bit as much as this community thanks him and holds him in high regard. This is all a long way of saying thank you for your commitment and creativity, and just plain hard work. You folks are analytical artists, and you've made a convert out of me. That and a quarter will get you a swizzle straw at Starbucks, but I want you to know that there are probably countless numbers of folks like me out there that have benefited from your work and are appreciative.

 

14, out..

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I can totally agree with what you guys say on the basis of playing or modding too much. Iv taken a complete break from all TW sims and am currently playing and modding my ArmA2 install (and having some good fun i might add grin.gif ) .

 

I dont intend on going back to TW sims until a week before the Double D's start their DiD campaign in order to get some training in.....

 

Its important to make sure (in modders case) that they only keep modding as long as they enjoy it. I have seen many people turn modding into a job which then becomes repetitive for them and they lose all enjoyment and end up not even playing the game anymore. Hopefully this will not happen with you guys.

 

So take a break, enjoy the festive season and keep the beer flowing drinks.gif

 

Mike

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I can second that too.

but all my mods that will be done in the future will be for

Generation 2.

maybe a bit off topic, but what about reorganising the SF2 download section?

There are more and more gen 2 mods. i thing it would be good to organize it like the Gen1 d/l section...

 

The Gen 2 section isn't big enough to warrent the time it would take to make it like the Gen 1 section. When and if it gets really big them I am going to do it in one swift stroke......well not so swift.

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Its important to make sure (in modders case) that they only keep modding as long as they enjoy it. I have seen many people turn modding into a job which then becomes repetitive for them and they lose all enjoyment and end up not even playing the game anymore. Hopefully this will not happen with you guys.

 

I will have to admit, its turned into a job a long time ago. I havent fired it up in close to 2 months.With the death of bpao, it effectively killed my enjoyment of modding and flying this sim. C5 has already left, FC is burned out, I am burned out. I just do not have the motivation to fix crap we fixed once already. But what can you do?

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Things are slow because for me, I have lost interest. I know a few other regular modders who have lost interest as well. I think we have taken the series as far as we can and to be honest, TK's support is great but always redoing mods to make it work with this patch or patch has gotten old. Do not get me wrong I love all the stuff TK adds though, it just gets hard to keep up.

 

But that's the reality of it. I am not saying I won't mod again but I am not going to break my neck either or bug team members of projects. Sorry if I sound crass, not my intention. Seven years is a long time to mod a sim.

 

 

I'm with you,word after word

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Super Dave has nailed it right on the head.

2) Use that knowledge...learn how to fix things yourself first. Don't be afraid to try things out yourself. Just keep your modding predictable, and reversible.

FC

 

Hear hear. Adapting stuff is generally just copying and pasting. Tweaks here and there for sure, but overall? It's harder just finding the stuff to put the data into than actually doing it. If you don't know the real world values, use the default ones... I do.

 

But I agree. It's a time to break off and do other things. I haven't lost interest as much as Super Dave and FC, but there's only so much you can do, and want to do before you need to look at a few other things as well in life. Well okay, once I make 180 hours on my pilot, I'll rest a bit :smile:

Edited by EricJ

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I am very interested in the new LOMAC patch. I used to make some serious missions using that kick ass editor. Maybe that will re spark my interest in modding.

 

 

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Its sad that its turned into a job for you guys. Ive seen it before with other modding communities. People are so dedicated to the modding the games that they lose the joy out of playing them...

 

If you guys were to lose all interest in the TW sims does that mean you would not be seen any more on this site? It would be a great loss if we were to lose any of you guys the same way C5 called it a day..... (i dont know the circumstances behind C5's departure and i am not judging it in any way, its just an example)

 

The amount of work that goes into these mods is incredible and I am forever thankful. This place wouldnt be half of what it is without you guys.

 

Mike

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Mike

 

I am not leaving, I have obligations to the site. Approve files, keep the peace, help people out with site issues. So I am here to stay, just my modding is taking a break right now. C5 left because he was sick of the BS when it came to our sim. He might be back one day but after conversations with him on the phone it won't be anytime soon if at all. I can't pack up and leave and I don't want to. The day to day ops require my attention. As I said once that new LOMAC patch is out I am going to focus my attention there. And we have a LOMAC section here at CA, so I am not going anywhere else. Do not get discouraged people. Everyone needs a break.

 

 

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I am very interested in the new LOMAC patch. I used to make some serious missions using that kick ass editor. Maybe that will re spark my interest in modding.

 

I feel you though, sometimes you just have to find something else to keep you going. I'm probably not going back to LOMAC after awhile, I feel my time is done with it, unless they release modding tools, then I'd go back, but I've flown everything in that sim and I'll be good for awhile myself. But pending what things go on, I may get back into the skies. Sure TW sims don't have everything it has, but it's a good enough game to fire up and drop some bombs :smile:

Edited by EricJ

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Its good to hear you arnt going anywhere Dave. Although its a shame about C5....

 

I was thinking of getting LOMAC myself actually. Seen it in a local supermarket for £4.99. Bargain!

 

Mike

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Ok, that all pretty much answers my question. Pretty much what I expected, but I thought I'd ask anyway. And FWIW, I'm totally with all of that said you're a little burnt out. I haven't played any flight sims in months, and certainly don't have the drive to do any serious modding. I just thought I'd ask since it seemed like only months ago, there was talk about updating a lot of the older mods, and then things just sort of died down...

 

Dave, you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the continuous engine updates and patches. Don't get me wrong, TK has done some amazing things to keep this sim updated and made great incremental improvements over the last couple of years that I've been around it. But I can see (and already have experienced) how frustrating it can be to release a mod and then have a new patch (or generation) mean you have to go back and rework the whole thing if you want it to work with the newer title. Very long and boring process, with very little payoff.

 

And when I say little payoff, I mean little payoff. Think about it... If someone new to the series were to sit down and play OTC with the '06 patch, and then OTC with SF2E, would they really noticed much of a difference wtih regards to gameplay or "fun factor"? Probably not. Same with an '08 ODS vs. SF2E ODS.

 

So I hope no one found my question irritating or thought I was nagging about new releases. I had just noticed that a lot of the regulars (in addition to the absent C5) weren't posting as much anymoreI was just curious if there was much going on or everyone was taking a well deserved break.

 

Happy Holiday's, all! :drinks:

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Having spent the last couple months in the world of FSX, I am gingerly nosing my way back into SF2. My time with FSX has given my new awe for the modders of the Thirdwire world. Quality add-ons exist aplenty for FSX, but only if you are willing to part with serious amounts of cash. I think A2A's Piper Cub was worth every penny I paid - it gave me a glimpse into the sort of flight I might hope to enjoy for real one day, but that was $40 for one (high quality) add-on.

 

By contrast, the community of modders here has been incredibly generous to share the fruits of their labors. I know it must have been a labor of love - and when the love fades, I can imagine that it is hard to keep going.

 

NF4+ and ODS and many others are works of art. They come as close to perfection as can be imagined given the limits of the engine.

 

I do wonder a bit if this pursuit of perfection - so often achieved - hasn't itself become something of a hindrance. Was there more fun to be had in the days when goals had not become so lofty - and the expectations of us non-modding ground-lings so bloated?

 

but I am not one of the artists. They are the masters of their work, and it is for them to decide their goals and what brings them satisfaction.

 

To those who have moved on, I can only offer my hearty thanks. To those who need rest, I hope you find it. For bpao and his family, I pray with thanksgiving for his life and for comfort and peace for those who miss him dearly as the holidays approach.

 

Merry Christmas,

Emile

 

 

P.S. A bit of good news - and the reason typing has taken forever with one hand - I am holding my beautiful twelve day old daughter in my arm.

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Thog10,

 

Congrats! Wonderful thing being an parent!

 

I have to admit, didn't think about the fact that the bar keeps getting raised. As computers have gotten stronger, and TK has added more functionality in his sims, it's made making a quality mod that takes advantage of this all the more difficult. There are more things to check, more things to add, more things to program and troubleshoot. It can get to the point where you wonder if you are rivaling time and effort spent making payware.

 

In some ways, it's the double edged sword. Something so easy to mod means there are always mods coming out for it. Something much more difficult or closed keeps the mods to a minimum because of the difficulty involved.

 

FC

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I for one, am entirely grateful to all the modders of all our favourite sims. You are the best. But forget it for now and play the sims as they are. You dont really need the mods to enjoy these sims. The games themselves are totally fantastic. I used to mod this, mod that, wait for every fantastic mod to get released but these days I spend hours just playing the sim and enjoying it. Try it and see for yourself.

 

Today I flew 3 campaign missions in the Israeli 6 day war and it was fantastic. Stop worrying and start twidling with your joystick.

 

All the best,

 

Dogzero1 (not really a new member) :grin:

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Ive been playing it too long - and you defo need loads of the Mods - especially for the enviroment and other jets. Playing SF2 without GreenHell 2 and a sky mod even after 5 years of improvements - forget it!

 

The majority of stuff out there can be made to work with whatever version of game you have - and when you start to change things yourself you might find out how addictive it can get!.

 

The constant patch thing is annoying - but usually and esentially makes the game better so its livable - but can totally understand the frustration in having to find time to update the old stuff - it really is a big commitment.

 

Sad to hear when people who have led the modding community for all these years decide to go their own ways - but nothing lasts foreever and we can be thankful for the many years of enjoyment we have had.

 

This may be a turning point where things move on - or a point where other people with the skills decide to take leading roles, or a point where things stay as they are. As long as TK is about this series has many years left yet - particularly considering its competition.

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C5 left because he was sick of the BS when it came to our sim. He might be back one day but after conversations with him on the phone it won't be anytime soon if at all.

What kind of BS would that be?

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