Difficulty options... what do you use and why?

[+malibu43 142]

I know this has been discussed here before, but I couldn’t find any recent threads on the subject.

 

I’ve been playing around with different FM and Enemy Skill settings to try and get something that is the right balance between realistic and challenging, but also rewarding. ie – I want to be able to get at least 1 A/A kill on most A/A missions. I know that’s not realistic, but it’s a game and I need to have fun. In “real life” pilots would fly entire campaigns and get only a handful of kills (5 is an “Ace”…), but that wouldn’t make for a very fun game.

 

I was using a MiGCAP mission in SF2V to try different settings, F-8D vs MiG-17. I found that FM on Hard and Enemy Skill on Normal was too… “hard.” Even using my best energy management tactics, most of the time the MiG and I just danced all over the sky for 10-15 minutes until I got impatient and did something stupid or just gave up. When real life time is limited, not a very rewarding use of time.

 

One thing that’s been discussed here and at SimHQ is that the AI always use the Normal FM, so I thought I’d turn my FM down to Normal to make up for that imbalance. Well, the result was the same – 10-15 mins of turning and zooming all over the place with no kills. Since there was no noticeable benefit and I like using accurate FM’s, I turned FM back to Hard.

 

The next thing I’m going to try is turning the enemy skill down to Easy. Hopefully they won’t be so great at flying their aircraft right at the edge of the envelope, and maybe they’ll make a mistake once in a while that I can capitalize on. From what I’ve gathered, it seems like most N. Vietnamese pilots were not necessarily the best anyway.

 

I’m curious to hear from the regulars around here what settings they’re using, and if those settings are meant to be realistic or fun or both. Maybe I just suck and everyone else is owning the skies on all hard difficulty settings. Also, do you use different difficulty settings for different installs? For example, I’m assuming enemy pilot skill shouldn’t be as high in Vietnam, but in SF2E maybe I’ll keep the harder settings since the assumption there is that your flying against the Soviet airforce who would probably be better trained. Plus, it seems like blue aircraft and weapons seem to tilt the scales in blue's favor as you get into the laters dates in this series. Are the easier settings going to make things to easy in the late '70's and early '80's? Then what about SF2I and Korea (when that comes out)? Choices, choices, choices…

 

I know “it’s up to me and I can do whatever I want,” but I just thought it would be interesting to hear how others are approaching this.

Edited November 16, 2010 by malibu43

[JediMaster 451]

Well, I don't know if having difficulty with a particular plane match-up (like F-8 vs MiG-17) is a good barometer of where you'll like the difficulty set best.

Since I fly lots of 3rd party planes as well as stock, and I know most of them were done with the normal FM in mind, that's what I use. I think I leave the AI on normal as well. Sometimes you just can't win a dogfight against a particular plane if your plane isn't up to it. You need to rely on wingmen/other flights, friendly ground fire if you're over friendly territory/units, or just bugging out. Maybe you get a mission failure for it, but it's better than getting shot down!

 

One of the reasons kill numbers are far higher in sims than historically is the lack of self-preservation in the AI. They see nothing wrong with chasing you to their deaths unless they run out of fuel or ammo and then head home. Every sim has that problem. The exception is usually where you get a "mission complete" or "failure" and all the AI planes call it a day even if you're right there.

In Korea for example there were numerous instances of large (greater than 6 v 6) dogfights occurring with only 1 or even no kills, just maybe some damage. A real pilot will press an advantage that they have, but if they're outmatched they won't keep trying to shoot one plane down while 4 others get on his six. They want to live to fight another day.

[+malibu43 142]

Well, I don't know if having difficulty with a particular plane match-up (like F-8 vs MiG-17) is a good barometer of where you'll like the difficulty set best.

 

That's a good point. I figured the F-8 probably had the best chances of beating a MiG-17 out of all the A/A fighters in SF2V, so that's what I chose. After browsing the internet a little more, I keep seeing that the reason US aircraft had such high kill ratios during the Korea/Vietnam time period was a result of pilot skill and training, and not so much aircraft design (at least when it came to dog fighting). I think this reinforces the last thing I said I was going to try, which is leave the FM on whatever gives me the most realistic flying experience (be it Normal or Hard) and lower the skill of the enemy (Easy). I'm going to give that a try. I think it will work well up until the early '70's, but, again, I'm not sure how it will work when I start using the later models of the Aim-9 and Aim-7. Hopefully things don't become a joke.

 

Since I fly lots of 3rd party planes as well as stock, and I know most of them were done with the normal FM in mind, that's what I use. I think I leave the AI on normal as well. Sometimes you just can't win a dogfight against a particular plane if your plane isn't up to it. You need to rely on wingmen/other flights, friendly ground fire if you're over friendly territory/units, or just bugging out. Maybe you get a mission failure for it, but it's better than getting shot down!

 

That's something I'm considering as well. Unfortunately, it's hard to remember which FM you're supposed to use for each aircraft. Some are meant for Normal, some are meant for Hard. I'll probably stick with hard until a problem shows up.

 

One of the reasons kill numbers are far higher in sims than historically is the lack of self-preservation in the AI. They see nothing wrong with chasing you to their deaths unless they run out of fuel or ammo and then head home. Every sim has that problem. The exception is usually where you get a "mission complete" or "failure" and all the AI planes call it a day even if you're right there.

In Korea for example there were numerous instances of large (greater than 6 v 6) dogfights occurring with only 1 or even no kills, just maybe some damage. A real pilot will press an advantage that they have, but if they're outmatched they won't keep trying to shoot one plane down while 4 others get on his six. They want to live to fight another day.

 

Another good point!

[Spinners 15,986]

90% of the time on NORMAL but I did a re-install recently and I'm giving HARD another blast. The Hunter is really nice on HARD (as is the new Backfire funnily enough) but the Phantom is a struggle... which, perhaps, is how it should be.

[Charlie 14 0]

Well, let's see...

 

For Game Options the following categories are set on HARD: FM, Weapons, Radar Display, Ammo Usage, Fuel Usage. The following are set to NORMAL: Visual Targeting, HUD Display, Landing, Collision.

 

I fly almost all campaigns, I set the Campaign Difficulty to Hard, Weapons Supply is set to Limited.

 

I always fly Dead is Dead.

 

As far as WoV goes, I have really kinda gone overboard recently after having learned that SOP for most carrier based Phantom ops precluded carrying an external gun as the space was occupied by the centerline tank, from what I've read anyway wing tanks weren't customary in carrier ops with F-4's, so I have been forgoing the gun and having to rely on the 'winders and Sparrows for A-A kills, which can be frustrating to say the least.

 

All of that said, the F-8 and F-4 guys faced their own limitations in real life, and getting in a turning fight with a MIG-17 wasn't advisable, but you can beat a MIG-17, and the sim is nice in that it rewards using the same tactics the guys used back in the day over Vietnam.

 

I like the settings I run I guess because I want to, insofar as I can, try to present myself with some of the same limitations those guys had thus making me fly smarter, it keeps me from getting lazy, and the kills you get you have to work for. The fuel constrictions keep you aware of the time over target limitations you have, the radar limitations mimic the lack of a look down capability and hamper you down low.

 

If I really want more of the fire and forget, annihilate everything in the sky, sort of experience I just fly a later Wo* scenario with one of the fourth generation fighters.

[+malibu43 142]

Well, let's see...

 

For Game Options the following categories are set on HARD: FM, Weapons, Radar Display, Ammo Usage, Fuel Usage. The following are set to NORMAL: Visual Targeting, HUD Display, Landing, Collision.

 

I fly almost all campaigns, I set the Campaign Difficulty to Hard, Weapons Supply is set to Limited.

 

I always fly Dead is Dead.

 

As far as WoV goes, I have really kinda gone overboard recently after having learned that SOP for most carrier based Phantom ops precluded carrying an external gun as the space was occupied by the centerline tank, from what I've read anyway wing tanks weren't customary in carrier ops with F-4's, so I have been forgoing the gun and having to rely on the 'winders and Sparrows for A-A kills, which can be frustrating to say the least.

 

All of that said, the F-8 and F-4 guys faced their own limitations in real life, and getting in a turning fight with a MIG-17 wasn't advisable, but you can beat a MIG-17, and the sim is nice in that it rewards using the same tactics the guys used back in the day over Vietnam.

 

I like the settings I run I guess because I want to, insofar as I can, try to present myself with some of the same limitations those guys had thus making me fly smarter, it keeps me from getting lazy, and the kills you get you have to work for. The fuel constrictions keep you aware of the time over target limitations you have, the radar limitations mimic the lack of a look down capability and hamper you down low.

 

If I really want more of the fire and forget, annihilate everything in the sky, sort of experience I just fly a later Wo* scenario with one of the fourth generation fighters.

 

For the most part, I totally agree with you here, as this has always been my approach in the past. Lately, however, time to fly on my laptop is very limited, so I'm trying to find a way to get rewarded a little more often without totally sacrificing my integrity!

Edited November 16, 2010 by malibu43

[Bossco82 11]

Malibu 43 I completely know what you mean. I use to play all these games on easy and even tweak the ini's to my advantage. However I got bored of it being too easy. I tried it on normal with the origional ini's and found it so difficult it just wasn't fun anymore.

 

I stuck with it though, I now have flightmodel, blackout, fuel usage, collision, ammo usage and landing on normal. But Radar dispay, weapons and visual targeting on hard. Enemy skill level is normal.

 

I watched quite a few episode of dogfights which gave me a good idea on tactics and read a book called "air combat maneuvers" its written for people using flight sims to help them play them more realistically. Flying a phantom with no gun against a mig-17 is still difficult though.

[+malibu43 142]

Malibu 43 I completely know what you mean. I use to play all these games on easy and even tweak the ini's to my advantage. However I got bored of it being too easy. I tried it on normal with the origional ini's and found it so difficult it just wasn't fun anymore.

 

I stuck with it though, I now have flightmodel, blackout, fuel usage, collision, ammo usage and landing on normal. But Radar dispay, weapons and visual targeting on hard. Enemy skill level is normal.

 

I watched quite a few episode of dogfights which gave me a good idea on tactics and read a book called "air combat maneuvers" its written for people using flight sims to help them play them more realistically. Flying a phantom with no gun against a mig-17 is still difficult though.

 

Thanks for the input. At this point, I think I'm still going to try my Hard FM settings with enemy skill at Easy. If the enemy ends up being just rediculously easy at those settings, I'll go the Normal/Normal route and give that a try.

 

I'm curious to see what some of the CA veterans (Dave, Wrech, FC, etc...) have to say about this, given that they've been around the series so long and have participated in the FM development of so many 3rd party AC.

Edited November 17, 2010 by malibu43

[Gr.Viper 131]

You won't see much difference flying solo on Easy. Take a few wingmen. Give them guns and BVR missiles. Watch them kill everything that moves.

[Wrench 9,847]

Who has time to play-fly?? Got too many projects in the pipe to fritter the time on stuff like that (if'n you all want the playgrounds for your fancy toys! )

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+Crusader 2,101]

Some time ago TK got complaints that the game lacked action, that too many MiG flights do not react at all if jumped,

flying on like nothing is happening at all

 

So TK deactivated all the VisualBlindArc and VisualRestrictedArc setting in the DetectSystem section.

That is the reason for the aggressive AI since late 2009 or so ... if AI is inside the VisibleDistance , they see you all the time, no matter where you are.

 

Thats why those MiG-17 are so "uber" now, turning their socks off ...

Before that change, you could maneuver into the blind zone, even with a F-4 , AI lost sight and then the weaker AI pilots made the usual things in such a situation, reversing roll etc.. which allowed you to zap them.

 

But not anymore ...

 

What still works is the weak AI in a vertical fight, you can use that to your advantage

They zoom up with you but are prone to stall around 30k or so, if done right you can drop in behind them

[JediMaster 451]

See, that's something I think should go hand-in-hand with the difficulty settings. That visual thing should only be off if the AI is set to "hard". At normal, and especially at easy, it should be working.

[+daddyairplanes 10,238]

Who has time to play-fly?? Got too many projects in the pipe to fritter the time on stuff like that (if'n you all want the playgrounds for your fancy toys! )

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

 

me thinks you have fun doing that or you would't be doin it

 

as for settings, im lazy and a bit of a wimp yet like some realism. i generally go for normal.

[Slartibartfast 153]

I run on hard settings... but I like a challenge and I love every minute of it... just need a TrackIR setup to make the most of it...

[+malibu43 142]

You won't see much difference flying solo on Easy. Take a few wingmen. Give them guns and BVR missiles. Watch them kill everything that moves.

 

Even if "Easy" is the enemy AI difficulty? It seems like that shouldn't affect my wingman's aggressiveness.

 

 

See, that's something I think should go hand-in-hand with the difficulty settings. That visual thing should only be off if the AI is set to "hard". At normal, and especially at easy, it should be working.

 

Totally agree.

[Gr.Viper 131]

IIRC, AI difficulty affects both friendly and enemy AI. Hard = more aces among enemies, more noobs among friendlies (squadron roster gets depleted fast). Easy = many ace friendlies, enemies are mostly noobs. AI difficulty isn't a tweak of AI in general but rather a rearrangement of skill levels. That's why I fly Normal AI. My guys don't need to be babysat (unless I want them get kills and gain ace skills) and enemies can be bad, normal or ace depending on the situation. The rest is set to Hard and never caused any trouble with stock planes.

[+malibu43 142]

OK. So here's what I've decided.

 

FM on Normal. The AI get to use the Normal FM, then so do I. No reason to handicap myself.

AI Skill on Normal. For reasons explained by Gr. Viper.

 

Hopefully this will be the right combination of challenging rewarding...

Edited November 17, 2010 by malibu43

[Gr.Viper 131]

Hopefully this will be the right combination of challenging rewarding...

That mostly depends on the plane really.

[+malibu43 142]

That mostly depends on the plane really.

 

Very true. I'll have to play with it for a while and see how it goes.

 

Thanks all for your help!

[JediMaster 451]

Yes, flying an F-105 on a bomber intercept would certainly be challenging for example!

Of course, you can only control what plane you fly. Your other friendly flights and enemies are chosen by the game so you never know if you're going up against a group of gunless 21's with their shoddy Atolls or a flight of mad Frescos with your head on their menu!

[Gr.Viper 131]

Let's not forget getting F-4M into a vise between two flights of Floggers.

[+malibu43 142]

Jeez... After all this, I started a Rolling Thunder campaign flying F-8C's with FM on Normal and AI skill set at Normal.

 

Well, I got 4 MiG-17's on the first mission! In all my testing, I didn't account for the "experience" entry in the campaign_data.ini file. The MiG's in this first mission were kind of flying around aimlessly, like one would expect MiG's to do early in the Vietnam conflict. They were nothing like the MiG's I encountered in single missions.

 

So all this discussion was kind of pointless. I was doing all my testing with single missions, but the entries in the campaign file gave me the result I was looking for. I set the FM back to Hard. Time to move on!

Edited November 17, 2010 by malibu43

[MigBuster 2,884]

Yeah - think its down to the pilot training - they have always been the worst opponents. Whereas in single missions the MiG-17Fs and MiG-19s can be very difficult(particularly in SF2). It takes a while sometimes to get used to a certin jet again - I prefer the F-8 in a DF than the F-4/100/101/102/104 though (all settings on Hard btw and red planes removed from map).

 

The Razbam F-102 with AIM-4s only being the ultimate challenge/nightmare - handles alright but I cant see out of the cockpit to keep tally on anything and it seems very slow - tasked to escort a flight of B-57Bs to NV - couldnt catch them - the MiG-17s did though doh!.

[viperBAT32 2]

i try to keep all settings on hard......war is hard. pilot skill is the real test.

as i am a mud-mover at heart, i'm not the best DF'er in the theatre....but i know the particular a/c's limitations and advantages.

i believe this sim's ability to give the user so much flexibility(...to edit to your hearts desire) is the attraction for me.

this jewel of a series has a never-ending wow-factor from the start.....i can't leave it alone!

 

i can't say i've never been disappointed about firing my salvo of a2a missiles at a single MiG-17 over Hanoi only to have that MiG turn out of danger every time....but, i enjoyed the thought of going up against an AI a/c that thwarted my every action...and we both "lived" to fight another day! that's war....unpredictable!

 

Cheers,TK and ALL that have contributed in ANY way!......my "PLAY TIME" has never been more enjoyable!

 

p.s. I WANT THE MISSION EDITOR FOR THE SF2 SERIES!!!!!!!

[Catfish 0]

I have all the options set to hard with the exception of fuel and gun ammo (easy) and blackout (normal). That's because I always look for a gunkill, and since I red in this forum a real Nam-era Phantom pilot sets the blackout to normal.

 

Since I installed EXP 2 I set up dogfights with no wingmen on my side against 1, 2 or 3 boogies.

 

Obviously I cannot get a gunkill anytime and several times someone or something kick my a##... especially some Fresco's bullets or the damned AIM-9L when I'm flying Reds in the '80s...