Sidewinder high aspect shot: warhead effectiveness or lack thereof

[Do335]

Finding dogfighting with the sidewinder rather frustrating. You pull off some hard maneuvers and got a good tone. Squeeze one off, winder tracks perfectly and detonates, BUT DOES ZERO DAMAGE to the target! The explosion wave tumbles the mig somewhat, but it kept on flying without a scratch.

 

Thought OK, perhaps being the early AIM-9 models (D/G/H) they were somewhat inaccurate or the track was thrown off at the last second or summin, so tried it out with Limas and Mikes.... same thing happens. Unless it's a good tail or head on shot the zero damage hit happens a lot, especially if it's close to 90deg aspect angle.

 

 

 

So of course I fired up weapons editor hoping to see what can be done. The explosive mass was about 10kg, yes much lighter compared to the heavier hitting sparrows (duh!) but fits well to public sources. The fuzing distance is 0.5m, halved it but no avail plus the horrible AIM-4 without proxity fuse was well heard of.

 

Can't help but wonder what went wrong with the good ol' winder?

Edited April 24, 2012 by Do335

[+EricJ]

It's been around since... March? or earlier patch, I just ran a quick fight and the same thing happened, I pegged my target in the front and had to get a rear shot to bring him down.

[Guest Pfunk]

The AIM-9 has definitely been nerfed.

[turkeydriver]

I like how the hit doesnt guarantee a kill but it is way underpowered-my wingie just put 2 Aim-9s into a MiG-21 tail on hits and I put a third in him-only left him smoking but still under power!

[+Fubar512]

And I just knocked half a wing off of a Tu-95 with one sidewinder

[+ianh755]

There's been a few threads about this now, it seems to be a random event so, for example, I've shot 3 AIM-9's at 1 target and done little damage, saved and replayed the mission and the same shots now kills with just 1 AIM-9. It's totally random now.

[Fofo3]

I have been noticing the exact same issue with the AIM-9 for a while. It doesn't matter what version either - a D, H or M.

One minute, I can't even damage a very near-miss on the tailpipe of a MiG-21, the next - I can blast the wing clean-off a Blinder and shred half the fuselage. No sort of messing-around with the weapons editor has fixed this for me. Maybe I'll put a 100 pound incendiary warhead and see what happens.

 

Someone contact Raytheon and let them know their product is all over the place. I personally, would like replacement A-7E, F-4E and an F-14B due to thier QA issues.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Fofo3

[Sheriff]

The earlier versions are not as reliable. Some wander off. Some run fine and don't fuse correctly. Review weps data files for the AIM-9s. Note the "lock-On chance", " countercountermeasure",and "accuracy" ratings. Remember there is some randomness factored into all this. My experience with the AIM-9L and later versions is it's a death ray unless the target pumps out a bunch of flares, regardless of taget aspect. If I see flares are ruining my shot I fire two 'winders about 3 second apart.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Sheriff

[+Gepard]

In the earlier games the Sidewinder L was much overrated. Its a good weapon, but as good as it was in game it was not in reality.

TK changed it now, but nerfed it a little bit to much.

[Teras]

its nothing to do with sidewinder or whatever , i even fired AIM-120 at a target and nothing happened

 

this is not an issue its a tactics implemented by TK in his 2011s patches dunno which one and im not sure if in real life an aircraft can survive a direct hit by AA missile

[SFP1Ace]

Maybe TK uparmored all AI fighters?

[+Gr.Viper]

It's more of an engine flaw. If the surfaces were not only "OK", "looks damaged" and "ripped off", and if damage affected the performance, TK wouldn't need to balance between "blown apart" and "unhurt" results of missile hits.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Gr.Viper

[Slartibartfast]

I always try for faceshots with a lima's and above sidewinders as they most often kill what they hit but going for aspect shots thats different especially tail shots seems as though the bad guys out fly the explosion...

[Do335]

Hmm looks like a common problem too. Since TK is moving on to mobile market I guess we're on our own, gotta keep honing df skills!

[+ST0RM]

Same issue with the AIM-9B. Shot 3 at a MiG-17. One failed to guide even with a solid tone, so I realligned to center and shot another. The second guided home, but didn't detonate. It flew past the tail and kept going. The third AIM-9 did the same as the second. Guided true, but didnt detonate.

 

I used the gunpod and finished him off.

[+Piecemeal]

May I suggest an alternative?

 

Weapons Pack 1 by Ravenclaw007

 

The Sidewinders in this recent pack are much more reliable - and they look a whole lot more accurate too

[+SkateZilla]

which is why i moved on to AIM7s and Guns.

 

sidewinders sometimes took out a plane in 1 hit, other times i'd send 2 into his tail and he'd continue limping home.

[Kodiak]

I observed lots of my missiles I fired and saw that sometimes my AIM-120 (mostly that one, sometimes also the AIM-7 types) passes straight through the plane I fired it at!

No explosion, no hit, just goes through it like a ghost!

Sometimes the missile explodes and damage or blows the plane up, but I saw it happen the missile simply flies through the plane with no effect at all!

I noticed this since I have SF2NA in a ful 5 merged install.

Did not yet notice it with a sidewinder, but those are really very random at what they do now. (damage a lot, a little, nothing, miss, etc...)

 

My best regards, Kodiak.

[garyscott]

Ive had quite a few AIM-54 shots hit target, pass through, and come out the other side heading backwards! Also occasionally they pass through, and in a very wide arc (almost like they are trying to come back for a second pass!), climb for altitude!

Sometimes i get it with the AIM-120, mostly its the -54, yet to see it with the 'winder.

 

As a side note, i quite often get problems with JDAM. Drop the store (within parameters!) and it will just sail over the target and carry on for a few miles.

[+WhiteBoySamurai]

I'm seeing both the randomly ineffectual IRM warheads and radar-guided missiles that snap around and fly backwards after a miss quite a lot. Perhaps related to problem 2, I've noticed that sometimes a missile (be it a SAM or AAM) will miss me, and the missile lock tone will stop... and then the exact same missile will hit me moments later. And these aren't necessarily modded crazy-high-off-boresight ones either. Maybe missiles can indeed make a second pass now...?

As a side note, i quite often get problems with JDAM. Drop the store (within parameters!) and it will just sail over the target and carry on for a few miles.

 

Try these values for JDAMs and similar GPS-guided weapons:

 

LockonChance=100

LaunchReliability=100

ArmingTime=4.000000

SeekerFOV=30.000000

SeekerGimbleLimit=180.000000

SeekerTrackRate=30.000000

SeekerRange=30000.000000

 

I used to get that same problem, but with this they'll always at least attempt to go after your target. My rationale is that GPS doesn't need to "lock on" to anything. It just drops toward where it's been programmed. I upped the CEP a bit though, for balance.