Things that annoy me greatly....

[Wrench 9,471]

actally, sometimes they drive me bat-s**t crazy.

 

anyone noticed the absence of certain files? Having browed through each and every (unlocked) cat file - all the mission, flight, objects, etc -including DLCs- ...

 

where have all the RWR lists gone? Where are the Ranks(insert nation) lists? Where are the (insert nation) name lists??

 

what's up with that??? Why would these have to be hidden or locked away?

 

trying to upgrade some aircraft with the latest TEWS symbology, not only are the 'newest' RWR lists missing, but so are the tgas!

 

Trying to fix one of the nations, giving the correct rank structure, and the Ranks**.lst isn't around! (had to extract from my last remaining 1stGen game!)

 

I have great fears for what's lurking just around the corner, with respect to modding. Very disturbing, at least in my estimation.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Wrench

[+RAVEN 414]

$$$ There in no cash in free addons, mods and "Man this stuff is nicer then the stuff in the box, my box! you cant putstuffininomore.

Edited July 24, 2012 by RAVEN

[+streakeagle 864]

I don't know what TK is doing, but he has and is certainly progressively changing his business model.

It is somewhat obvious that the game is heading more in the direction of MS Flight where you get all the mods you want via DLC.

So it is no surprise to me that templates are no longer provided and more and more files are being locked down.

This could also be a sign that multiplayer is somewhere around the corner since TK thinks you can't have multiplayer without having everything locked down.

Of course Bohemia has proven with the OFP/ArmA series that you can have one of the most moddable games ever made AND one of the best multiplayer games ever made.

So, I have never bought that argument.

 

I really don't mind files being locked.

The changes to the game are so frequent that I can barely keep up with making sure my takes on the MiG-21 and MiG-23 work after every overwrite.

But if I don't like where the game is going and I can't easily mod it back to what I liked... then it becomes totally irrelevant.

 

Which is where I am at.

I might buy the Mirage from Oz (though I really want the F-1C!) and the F-4 skins DLC or maybe not.

All my money has gone into DCS.

I just put $50 into a MiG-21 that isn't even available as a beta yet.

TK wouldn't give me a stock MiG-21 at any price and no user mod has fully matched the quality that could be achieved if TK created a stock one (i.e. a radar for the MiG-21 that is as accurate in display and functions as the F-4, F-14, F-15, and F-16).

Heck, TK hasn't even brought the stock F-104G into SF2 as a flyable and that is one of the planes that really made SFP1 special.

DCS may have one or more F-104 variants sooner than TK ever gets around to bringing the F-104 back into SF2 (and that may be awhile!).

 

It is hard to believe after all the years that I spent on the SF series that I have outgrown it or a competitor has passed it by or TK is heading down a different path or a combination of all three. Countless memories playing this game, though some of my best memories are from playing online. I just flew a fighter sweep in the F-4D over Vietnam in 1972 last night. After flying DCS A-10C all week, it hurt my eyes as much as going back to Jane's USAF after playing SFP1 or going back to Fighters Anthology after playing Jane's USAF. Eye candy isn't everything, but SF terrains looked dated in 2002 and its 10 years later. Technically, LOMAC/DCS terrain is somewhat dated, but was state of the art when it was originally released and runs fairly smooth now... making it look much better than SFP1. I am waiting to see what TK does with the new terrain engine. The resolution is there but if he can only make small islands surrounded by water without bringing a PC to its knees and can't even populate that island any better than SFP1, what is point?

 

TK might surprise me and grab me back. Over the short term, SF2 is still the only sim to use with my real F-4 stick (besides the A-10A in LOMAC/FC2). When A2A releases their F-4 for FSX, I might actually buy an FSX addon and try my stick out with that... but without combat capability what is the point? I am really hoping for a DCS F-4 within the next year or two. I guess I will live with the MiG-21bis and FC3 planeset until a decent DCS F-4 addon appears. While I wait for DCS and SF to progress, I am going to stay away from Third Wire's site. I have nothing good to say and have already spoke my mind there, so nothing more to say.

 

Kind of frustrating after waiting for SF2NA so long. I was pretty happy with the state of the sim a patch or two before SF2NA, but had to stay with the later patches to support the later DLC. I love some of the features of SF2NA: decent F-14A, decent naval combat, and populated carrier decks. But why did anything else have to be broken/changed to add these things?

Edited July 24, 2012 by streakeagle

[RogerSmith 72]

dunno what you mean by locked. I've been letting the CATs outta the bag just fine. But I wonder, did the CATs ever have ".wav" files in them? I needed to get am F-16 sound for Aggressor Jets but couldn't find any sound files so I had to improvise

Edited July 24, 2012 by RadPig94

[+daddyairplanes 8,689]

well Wrench that would be another part of the Realism mod. most of us do have the older files from before things got locked. use those as templates for things such as rwr, nationranks, etc. it may have to be like that til he locks (game).exe

[Wrench 9,471]

well, that still dosen't answer the questions as WHY relatively usefull files -things that we might want to know, to updated existing threat libraries, are no longer available.

 

like RP just asked about the wavs ... they've always been availalbe in one of the Flight cats, no longer. One wonders if all the 'interestering' stuff --and really don't give a damn about the lods- has been put in Cat002

[+Spillone104 553]

Maybe the direction taken by TW is towards "out of the box" kind of game. No more modders that "bother the artists" asking this or that to be fixed or implemented. And this direction is reflected by the DLC stuff... You want to mod the game? We give you our own mods. Closed.

And for us of the CAce and modding comunity is a bit like trolling I guess.

[+gerwin 450]

Why?

 

I suspect it is because TK did not lock these files consciously.

But instead all is locked by default, UNLESS the filetype is in a list of allowed filetypes: targa, jpeg, bitmap, ini.

[Wrench 9,471]

lst (for 'list')

[MigBuster 2,861]

Maybe the direction taken by TW is towards "out of the box" kind of game.

 

In that case it needs to be good "Out Of the Box" and not reliant on Modders to have to add all the missing things and fix the terrains and actually add more than 3 targets and target locations to campaigns.

[+malibu43 142]

In that case it needs to be good "Out Of the Box" and not reliant on Modders to have to add all the missing things and fix the terrains and actually add more than 3 targets and target locations to campaigns.

 

+1.

 

I would be more than happy to play my game stock... if the stock game was acceptable.

[+Stary 2,426]

I don't post recently, my last posts due to RL issues have been enough offensive towards TK and some of the community (which I apologise for) but such decisions aren't the best business model IMO.

 

I know, who the hell I am to know the business models? I just know that modding is what keept me and some 90% of active TW customers for years, else it would end around Wal-Mart fiasco (which I know only from veterans stories)

 

I really hope for good quality stock DLC mods to surface, but seeing as single F-1 is still before WIP state after all the months, dunno

[Wrench 9,471]

well, we're finally getting the DLC OzMirage after nearly 18 months.... (edit: I released my version almost exactly 2 years ago in july 2010!!, and just shortly after TK said he'd have one. So, go figure...)

[+Brain32 265]

Well what I'm about to say might not be to popular - BUT

 

...I think we pushed the guy too much lately, sure he partially asked for it but with only one thing IMO - the unreasonable locking.

The game did and did not change a lot but if you look carefully we did get quite a few stuff we have been asking for ages with NA and some add-ons before NA.

We got mission editor which is for me like 50% new game, we got new terrain engine, new avionics features, flyable propeller planes, Tomcat alone for some people is a religion, I mean let's face it he did a lot, we do want more but to be realistic he did a lot...

 

I still don't agree, can't agree and will not agree with excessive and unreasonable locking because that's a big part of the game and with him locking the access to new terrain file making it unmoddable a big part of the stuff he did which I mentioned above was simply taken away...and I am still a bit pi**ed about it.

 

Various frustration that come from RL, misunderstanding, expectations that are just too big, etc. etc. just brought us all, including TK into this silly zone of bickering and spite from both sides that are all but productive.

 

I'm tired guys, way too tired of all this, I'll make cockpits and play a bit in my free time, if TK accepts a suggestion or two fine, if not I just hope he will not take this hobby away from me and make Strike Fighters an arcade lock-fest, low-budget HawX wannabe...

[stuntman 170]

well, we're finally getting the DLC OzMirage after nearly 18 months.... (edit: I released my version almost exactly 2 years ago in july 2010!!, and just shortly after TK said he'd have one. So, go figure...)

 

Hey wrench, is it available here at CA? I don't remember seeing this one :/

[Wrench 9,471]

in the SF2 /Aircraft downloads section; somwhere in july 2010 (release date). In the release thread, there should be an updated data ini, as the Nov 2011 patch 'shifted' some items.

 

after this week, it won't be needing any updates, huh?

[+Stary 2,426]

thinking of it Brain32 is right

[gillg 4]

Hi Guys, I am not much of a modder, i just like playing the game and although I have found the locking of files concerning for the modders, (and the moderate visual quality of the NA terrain) I personally are not too concerned. The average stock NA terrain was fixed for me by the modded NA terrain by gerwin, (and that is where the concern for modders lies) the addition of a naval task force was a massive plus for me as well and I can still play all the old faves and fly just about any aircraft I want!

Do you know what has put me off this game a bit, like Brain said, the constant back and forth and negativity going around. I agree that locking the files is going to piss people off, but just imagine if those files were locked from the start. Complacency is the begining of ignorance. Everyone gets used to seeing it so we assume it will always be there.

[+Brain32 265]

I agree that locking the files is going to piss people off, but just imagine if those files were locked from the start.

 

That's the thing buddy, if that was the case it's highly questionable if this series would ever come anywhere near the level it's on now...

[gillg 4]

Yeah, and there is the crux of the problem right there I guess. like I said I still have the old favourites if this begins to, as the post began, annoy me greatly.

cheers

[+ST0RM 145]

Ok, chiming in on this. You guys keep drawing me in.

 

Brain is 100% correct. Our passion for this series and the quest for the perfect sim has clouded our vision. But we're just 1/3 of the problem. The other 1/3 comes from the newbs who either do not want to help themselves or simply do not understand how to and go running to TK about every little glitch that is usually a fault of their own. The last 1/3 is from TK himself in that he has compartmentalized the series so much, that we just dont have the chance to assist in fixing things anymore.

 

No matter how awesome they've been, mods have been one of the root causes of the huge division between us. He cant keep up with the mods and we cant keep editing the mods to keep up with the patches.

 

I guess you have to find a patch level that works for you and go with it. The hopes for that perfect sim will only worsen the perceived feud.

 

-Jeff

[+SkateZilla 49]

I don't know what TK is doing, but he has and is certainly progressively changing his business model.

It is somewhat obvious that the game is heading more in the direction of MS Flight where you get all the mods you want via DLC.

So it is no surprise to me that templates are no longer provided and more and more files are being locked down.

This could also be a sign that multiplayer is somewhere around the corner since TK thinks you can't have multiplayer without having everything locked down.

Of course Bohemia has proven with the OFP/ArmA series that you can have one of the most moddable games ever made AND one of the best multiplayer games ever made.

So, I have never bought that argument.

 

I really don't mind files being locked.

The changes to the game are so frequent that I can barely keep up with making sure my takes on the MiG-21 and MiG-23 work after every overwrite.

But if I don't like where the game is going and I can't easily mod it back to what I liked... then it becomes totally irrelevant.

 

Which is where I am at.

I might buy the Mirage from Oz (though I really want the F-1C!) and the F-4 skins DLC or maybe not.

All my money has gone into DCS.

I just put $50 into a MiG-21 that isn't even available as a beta yet.

TK wouldn't give me a stock MiG-21 at any price and no user mod has fully matched the quality that could be achieved if TK created a stock one (i.e. a radar for the MiG-21 that is as accurate in display and functions as the F-4, F-14, F-15, and F-16).

Heck, TK hasn't even brought the stock F-104G into SF2 as a flyable and that is one of the planes that really made SFP1 special.

DCS may have one or more F-104 variants sooner than TK ever gets around to bringing the F-104 back into SF2 (and that may be awhile!).

 

It is hard to believe after all the years that I spent on the SF series that I have outgrown it or a competitor has passed it by or TK is heading down a different path or a combination of all three. Countless memories playing this game, though some of my best memories are from playing online. I just flew a fighter sweep in the F-4D over Vietnam in 1972 last night. After flying DCS A-10C all week, it hurt my eyes as much as going back to Jane's USAF after playing SFP1 or going back to Fighters Anthology after playing Jane's USAF. Eye candy isn't everything, but SF terrains looked dated in 2002 and its 10 years later. Technically, LOMAC/DCS terrain is somewhat dated, but was state of the art when it was originally released and runs fairly smooth now... making it look much better than SFP1. I am waiting to see what TK does with the new terrain engine. The resolution is there but if he can only make small islands surrounded by water without bringing a PC to its knees and can't even populate that island any better than SFP1, what is point?

 

TK might surprise me and grab me back. Over the short term, SF2 is still the only sim to use with my real F-4 stick (besides the A-10A in LOMAC/FC2). When A2A releases their F-4 for FSX, I might actually buy an FSX addon and try my stick out with that... but without combat capability what is the point? I am really hoping for a DCS F-4 within the next year or two. I guess I will live with the MiG-21bis and FC3 planeset until a decent DCS F-4 addon appears. While I wait for DCS and SF to progress, I am going to stay away from Third Wire's site. I have nothing good to say and have already spoke my mind there, so nothing more to say.

 

Kind of frustrating after waiting for SF2NA so long. I was pretty happy with the state of the sim a patch or two before SF2NA, but had to stay with the later patches to support the later DLC. I love some of the features of SF2NA: decent F-14A, decent naval combat, and populated carrier decks. But why did anything else have to be broken/changed to add these things?

 

Dont use the phrases "TK" and "Multi-player" in the same post, it will trigger some not so nice things.... just look at what he says to people on his boards.

[eraser_tr 29]

My thoughts just keep going back to "lets just make our own damn sim" so its the way we want it or get someone to programs an independant CAT extractor that gets everything.

 

There's no reason whatsoever to lock text or shader files. I can understand models after the chinese stole them, but text files with settings?

[+gerwin 450]

It isn't really useful to make a new cat extractor, I figure.

Once ThirdWire hears about it they will encrypt the cats differently with the next patch release.

I would.

 

Maybe if someone asks Thirdwire nicely to release a new extractor version

that allows extracting .lst+ .wav or something else too?

Though .lst and .wav are not that interesting... I bet it is 99% unchanged since 2 years ago.

[+SkateZilla 49]

we've done asked and got the same "we did it to protect our IP" speech.