Mysteries of the RWR...

[PFunk 198]

OK, here's what I'm doing.

 

I am on a MiGCAP mission in the F-35C.  I have deleted the original threat .lst file and substituted the F/A-18E's because, frankly, it could 'see' more.

 

I can see the radar indicator on my RWR.  A MiG-31.  It is in my threat list.  My RWR 'sees' the Foxhound's radar.

 

I am blown out of the sky with no warning.  I am given no warning he has a lock on me.  What do I need to do in order to know the enemy has me locked up?  Oddly enough, if a Fulcrum or Flanker has me locked up, I know it.  

[KJakker 893]

First, does the "RadarFamilyName=" under [DetectSystem] in the "MiG-31_DATA.INI" file match the one in the "FA-18E_RWR.LST" file?

 

Second, did you add the "ThreatLibraryFile=FA-18E_RWR.lst" line under the [RWR] entry in your "F-35C_AVIONICS.ini" file?

 

[RWR]

Type=3_RING

AirSearchTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirSearch.tga

AirTrackTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirTrack.tga

AirLockTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirLock.tga

GroundSearchTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceSearch.tga

GroundTrackTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceTrack.tga

GroundLockTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceLock.tga

SearchPosition=0.90

TrackPosition=0.55

LockPosition=0.15

SearchSize=0.125

TrackSize=0.125

LockSize=0.125

SearchFlash=FALSE

TrackFlash=FALSE

TrackFlashRate=0.5

LockFlash=TRUE

LockFlashRate=0.1

TrackSound=F35Track.wav

LockSound=F35Search.wav

ThreatLibraryFile=FA-18E_RWR.lst <-----------------Did you add this?

 

Third, is the [DetectSystem] entry on the F-35C missing statements like the ones below(from the F-22) at the end of it? If so then the RWR may not know what frequencies it can see.    

 

HasRWR=TRUE

RWRMinFreq=0.5

RWRMaxFreq=20.0

RWRCanDetectCW=TRUE

[+streakeagle 869]

If the game is modeled per reality and the MiG-31 engaged you with an AA-9 using TWS similar to the F-14 and the AIM-54, you would never see a lock-on warning until the missile lit you up with its radar. Are active homing missile radars detectable by RWRs in SF2NA? 

[tn_prvteye 36]

I had this "issue", too.  Not a bug...a feature.  I've got sub-titles on, so I look for the red "missile launch" warning.  If I know there are no Bandits nearby (in IR missile range), but Mig-31s in the area, dump chaff and bat-turn.  Not sure how accurate the AA-9 is modeled, though...and I know that you won't get a RWR warning at all with AHM missiles.

[Caesar 305]

SE,

 

No, the game doesn't model the RWR warnings when the missile goes active.  Makes it kind of hard to estimate where the missile is relative to you.  I seem to recall having tested this at one point.  The only warning you ever get is the slow strobe while the radar is searching, but you never get the fast strobe when the missile is launched.

[+streakeagle 869]

Given the above responses: no AHM detection on RWR, then the game is working quite correctly when someone targeted by a MiG-31 never gets a lock-on warning. AHMs and IRMs do no require locks, so any aircraft carrying only those types of missiles can and will fire without warning if they have a TWS radar. This isn't a bug, but rather the way it should work in reality.

 

Of course, the game could support having modern RWRs detect AHM radars with the correct ini configs? But the only AHM in the game is the Phoenix and most likely none of its opponents would have had the tech to detect the AIM-54 radar lock. So this capability is really beyond the scope of the game.

[PFunk 198]

Thanks, everyone.  I appreciate it.  This has been very beneficial, but it only underscores the infinite judgement of the United States Air Force when it looked at me and said, "consider a college degree instead."

 

First, does the "RadarFamilyName=" under [DetectSystem] in the "MiG-31_DATA.INI" file match the one in the "FA-18E_RWR.LST" file?

 

Second, did you add the "ThreatLibraryFile=FA-18E_RWR.lst" line under the [RWR] entry in your "F-35C_AVIONICS.ini" file?

 

[RWR]

Type=3_RING

AirSearchTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirSearch.tga

AirTrackTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirTrack.tga

AirLockTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirLock.tga

GroundSearchTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceSearch.tga

GroundTrackTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceTrack.tga

GroundLockTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceLock.tga

SearchPosition=0.90

TrackPosition=0.55

LockPosition=0.15

SearchSize=0.125

TrackSize=0.125

LockSize=0.125

SearchFlash=FALSE

TrackFlash=FALSE

TrackFlashRate=0.5

LockFlash=TRUE

LockFlashRate=0.1

TrackSound=F35Track.wav

LockSound=F35Search.wav

ThreatLibraryFile=FA-18E_RWR.lst <-----------------Did you add this?

 

Third, is the [DetectSystem] entry on the F-35C missing statements like the ones below(from the F-22) at the end of it? If so then the RWR may not know what frequencies it can see.    

 

HasRWR=TRUE

RWRMinFreq=0.5

RWRMaxFreq=20.0

RWRCanDetectCW=TRUE

 

Yeah, I've got the mechanics down.  I was proud I was even able to get the proper threat indicator on the RWR.

[Wrench 9,811]

shouldn't the F-35 be using the TEWS, not the old style 3-ring?

[PFunk 198]

shouldn't the F-35 be using the TEWS, not the old style 3-ring?

 

Mine is.  It behaves EXACTLY as streak and Ceasar said it should.  Doesn't matter.  This series is still my go-to over DCS World, even with the idiosyncrasies.

[KJakker 893]

shouldn't the F-35 be using the TEWS, not the old style 3-ring?

 

Wrench, i just checked and found that I had the old F-35 2.3 installed not the latest 2.5 version. Hence the the 3-ring RWR.

[PFunk 198]

I must "dial back" the effectiveness of the missiles in SF2, the AI cannot handle "silver bullets" at all.

[+streakeagle 869]

I liked the original effectiveness of missiles in SF/WoX and early SF2: Far lower reliability/accuracy that seemed very close to historical data.

With the patches after SF2NA, "playability" complaints were addressed by increasing missile effectiveness, particularly for players.

I never bothered to identify what changes TK made in the missile data if any or to identify if it was something hard-coded in the game engine.

I will say that MiGs with AA-2 and AA-8 are now on par with pre-AIM-9L/M Sidewinders, which makes for better play balance/more of a challenge.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I liked the original effectiveness of missiles in SF/WoX and early SF2: Far lower reliability/accuracy that seemed very close to historical data.

With the patches after SF2NA, "playability" complaints were addressed by increasing missile effectiveness, particularly for players.

I never bothered to identify what changes TK made in the missile data if any or to identify if it was something hard-coded in the game engine.

I will say that MiGs with AA-2 and AA-8 are now on par with pre-AIM-9L/M Sidewinders, which makes for better play balance/more of a challenge.

 

Indeed, but I think that the game has become overall too easy. And even if I think that AIM-9B have too poor effectiveness, anything above it is a killing machine. The same goes for sparrow from the -E onward. 

Missiles should get back to what they were...

[+streakeagle 869]

The whole point of flying F-4s and MiGs in Vietnam Israel is to have intense dogfights in the struggle to get a kill with crappy missiles. If I wanted pushbutton kills, I could play any modern F-14/F-15/F-16/F-18 game or even the F-15/F-16 in SF2E/SF2I.

But, even with unrealistic lethality, the dogfights are pretty good. In 1 vs 1 against a max skilled AI pilot, an unslatted F-4 with no guns has to work pretty hard to hit a MiG-21MF once you get in close. Good enough for me to have some fun without resorting to multiplayer to have a good dogfight.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Sure, I still think the AIM-9B should be slightly enhanced and the sparrow tamed. I've been playing this game for ten years and in my recent campaigns in Rolling thunder, latest patches, I've had only one or two kills for perhaps a hundred launches. When I read about the air war above vietnam, I don't have the impression that they were that bad. 

And I do use the missile within its parameters. In comparaison, I think the AIM-9 onwards are "press a button to kill" missiles : when they are available, Yankee forces just wipe out the NVAF out of the sky in a dozen missions.

[+Stary 2,427]

In Super Sabre got 4 of 4 kills with 9E-2 agains 21s on all hard settings except hud display so the effectiveness is a bit too high

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

In Super Sabre got 4 of 4 kills with 9E-2 agains 21s on all hard settings except hud display so the effectiveness is a bit too high

9E are killing machines, 9B are useless.

Something went terribly wrong with the missiles since a few years. 

[+streakeagle 869]

Historically, 9Es did worse than 9Bs! It was the AIM-9D that made the F-8 Crusader the MiG Master. Once F-4Js started toting AIM-9G/Hs, they were MiG Masters, too. The early AIM-9J performed the same or worse as the AIM-9E in Vietnam. Most of the missiles in SF2 work much better than historical rates since SF2NA patches intended to reduce the frustation of missiles always failing/missing. While this kills the realism of the outcomes of dogfights allowing many more kills to be achieved than ever possible in reality, it does make the game more fun. A MiG-21 can actually take a US/NATO first rate aircraft down using an AA-2 or better yet an AA-8. There were quite a few years in the SFP1/WoX series where AI couldn't hit targets with guns or missiles at all. Having AI that is capable of killing me makes the single-player only SF2 series much more interesting/fun, even if the means to do so are unrealistic.

[Do335 382]

wait... are we saying aim-9Bs can now actually hit things? i might start packing them.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

No they can't.

That's all the current patch's paradox : Missiles are too easy, with the notable exception of AIM-9B. I used to be able to do stuffs with them a few years ago. They are now utterly useless.

[PFunk 198]

I tried something today just for fun.

 

I copied a bunch of the more advanced weapons from the stock TW weapons set.  AIM-9Ls, -7Ms, etc.

 

I simply changed the skins from American Sparrows and Sidewinders to Russian Alamos and Archers.

 

Know what happened?

 

The game became fun again.  The missiles can be dodged by the AI now.  No more push-button kills.  It actually works pretty good.

[aeenrahimpour 1]

 

First, does the "RadarFamilyName=" under [DetectSystem] in the "MiG-31_DATA.INI" file match the one in the "FA-18E_RWR.LST" file?

 

Second, did you add the "ThreatLibraryFile=FA-18E_RWR.lst" line under the [RWR] entry in your "F-35C_AVIONICS.ini" file?

 

[RWR]

Type=3_RING

AirSearchTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirSearch.tga

AirTrackTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirTrack.tga

AirLockTexture=Cockpit/RWR/AirLock.tga

GroundSearchTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceSearch.tga

GroundTrackTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceTrack.tga

GroundLockTexture=Cockpit/RWR/SurfaceLock.tga

SearchPosition=0.90

TrackPosition=0.55

LockPosition=0.15

SearchSize=0.125

TrackSize=0.125

LockSize=0.125

SearchFlash=FALSE

TrackFlash=FALSE

TrackFlashRate=0.5

LockFlash=TRUE

LockFlashRate=0.1

TrackSound=F35Track.wav

LockSound=F35Search.wav

ThreatLibraryFile=FA-18E_RWR.lst <-----------------Did you add this?

 

Third, is the [DetectSystem] entry on the F-35C missing statements like the ones below(from the F-22) at the end of it? If so then the RWR may not know what frequencies it can see.    

 

HasRWR=TRUE

RWRMinFreq=0.5

RWRMaxFreq=20.0

RWRCanDetectCW=TRUE

 

Hi I Have another question, how can I add missile warring in the RWR.lst? for example to warning about when the enemy firing AA-10A,B,C,D,E, R77,73 and AA-9, or .....

[Wrench 9,811]

you can't

[Fubar512 1,350]

Hi I Have another question, how can I add missile warring in the RWR.lst? for example to warning about when the enemy firing AA-10A,B,C,D,E, R77,73 and AA-9, or .....

 

The most the most-advanced RWR units in the series will tell you, is the aircraft type is currently tracking you, or that has locked on to you and is guiding either a beam-rider or semi-active homing missile (SAHM).  

 

If all is properly (historically) set up, it won't be able to ID some aircraft accurately, because they utilize the same radar type. For example, some MiG-21s and MiG-23s share the same radar unit, as do some early MiG-29s and Su-27s, so it will default to the earliest threat type.

 

What the RWR will not tell you, is when an Acitive Homing Missile (or AHM) is tracking you.  You will only get a very brief "tickle" when the aircraft that is launching that missile designates you as a target.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Also, IIRC, a RWR isn't able, in real life, to track IR missiles such as R-73.