The future of SF?

[+Stary 2,426]

I asked Thiedwire on the Facebook page few thigs, nothig so far -and I think it will stay unanswered like that:

 

 

Thirdwire will you be releasing some new exporters for newer versions of Max (say 2014, 2015?) AND do you plan releasing exporters which were used to create Iceland terrain mesh? From my vast experimensts it seems Iceland wasn't exported with the TW Exporter Dec-2010C (or earlier) given their vertex/poly llimits per mesh even when Iceland terrain uses many many multiple "submeshes" for terrain. Also do you plan any sort of documentation for modders regarding the "SF2:North Atlantic" LOD-based terrain creation? Sincerely, Stary

as you can see apart from the not-that important new terrain format I raised the issue of newer Max versions importers but I have little faith this post will get answer

[+streakeagle 866]

TK hasn't been answering any posts of any kind for quite some time that I can see.

[+Stary 2,426]

I know Streak I just had to

[Stratos 3,177]

Direct mails is the way we have to try I think. BUT we should act as a one, opening a proper post where everyone interested can show his/her interest in the request.

[+gerwin 450]

I cannot speak for TK, but it would be a lot more serious if the requesting party would be a developers organisation with a resume, and potentially income. Instead of a collection of enthousiasts. Wo can guarantee the source will not leak? That aspect needs more consideration IMO.

[Stratos 3,177]

Don't understand what you mean with "income", but I agree in the team part, I think we have enough serious developers here to form a team of top notch modders and create a text with our intentions and with proper SF job curriculum of each member. Of course it will be needed to sign a "don't leak" agreement too.

 

Mue already expressed his intention to help, but we need more guys, Wrench, FastCargo, Stary, paulopanz or you Gerwin just to name a few I think will be excellent candidates.

[+daddyairplanes 9,243]

Income simply means the abilityvto pay for license from TK (he wont let us run with his baby for free) and to get the modders to be able to work it full time. To make anything other than a patch or mod would require real time and most of us dont have that IRL due to job and family requierments. Plus such time would not reasonably be given w/o some form of compensation.

 

That not even getting a multiplayer up and running based on SF2......

[+Stary 2,426]

Mue already expressed his intention to help, but we need more guys, Wrench, FastCargo, Stary, paulopanz or you Gerwin

of which as far as I know only Gerwin has programming skills. Ohh rule that Stary guy out, he can't do say 17x21 without using windows calculator

[+daddyairplanes 9,243]

of which as far as I know only Gerwin has programming skills. Ohh rule that Stary guy out, he can't do say 17x21 without using windows calculator

357

[+Stary 2,426]

[Stratos 3,177]

Then we don't try it?

[+Julhelm 266]

Then we don't try it?

[+baffmeister 1,205]

A picture speaks a thousand words.   Personally, I don't believe "Group Think" will ever work. To arrange some kind of licencing agreement with TW would probably require one very smart and driven individual who knows lot's about programming, marketing, airplanes etc.  Would probably require a not inconsiderable amount of up front money as well. It may be possible to get some totally new and original content by using some of the very talented individuals at this site but they would require payment in some way.  Maybe payment up front or by some kind of percentage of sales but it would still cost money. Plus TW would be getting a percentage of sales as well so it could be a very high risk endeavor with modest potential return.

[+Stary 2,426]

so let's do public CombatAce funds collections and handle the monies to say hmmm, Stary maybe? and then he'll approach TK with the cash to do the talking. I think about 1-1.5 million dollars would do just fine. Yeah.

 

on a serious note, WTR team and I think Swambast in particular did indeed got into some deal with TK so why not try as a SF2 community?

 

Also like PauloPanz brought up examples of efforts like those of Cliffs of Despair Dover TF mod team and Team Daidalos, I have hard time figuring out what would prevent few skilled individuals from working on the code say hacks or some runtime manipulations, from legal point of view. COD is still valid product available via multiple online stores so doesn't fall into the (let's be honest here very) blurry "abandonware" category, neither do SF2 as Harold pointed out, right? But nothing prevents 3rd parties from working on patches to owned software as far as software laws go last time I checked, right Julhelm? Plus we have mail from TK to Stratos stating he doesn't care what we do with the exes as long as it isn't sold (?) or some kind of reverse-engineering used?

 

ZoltanTheHun, welcome aboard. +1 for good first post, keep it up

 

just some random thinking after a hard work day

[Spinners 15,981]

Outlook: No change.

[+Stary 2,426]

but we love to beat that dead rotten horse carcass, don't we?

[+daddyairplanes 9,243]

Stary lets just say buying the rights to PC is my win the lottery dream.  and hiring on a bunch of tolerably qualified individuals around te world to rebuild that mother.

but gotta win the lottery or get a few other balls rolling first

[+Stary 2,426]

funny as for many times I wished to win lottery to be able to hire TK to do this or that...

[Stratos 3,177]

Message received guys.

[Murphy'S 15]

funny as for many times I wished to win lottery to be able to hire TK to do this or that...

 

Even if you win lottery, i really doubt TK accept to work for you (or any one else).

 

He's too strange in his way of thinking.

 

But whatever results of this discussion, the time has come (and for some months (years?)) to do like the teams of falcon, cod and so on. Of course it's not abandware, but it's obvious he'll make no further progress on the pc games.

 

What will he do? do you really think there will be legal issues if there is no money maked of?

 

there is some changes and MUE is probably only the first one of them.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Murphy'S

[+mue 714]

I think, as a community project without financial backing it will only work if we could get the source code for free. I know of at least one game where this happened: "Enemy Engaged Comanche vs. Hokum". Empire Interactive released the source code under the eech license: http://eechcentral.simhq.com/index.php?title=EECH_License . The community could do what they want with the source code, but the source code and the modifications were still owned by Empire Interactive.
But as others already wrote, the possibility that Thirdwire will release the source code is near (equal) zero.

[macelena 1,070]

I honestly doubt we will ever get a serious chance to move the way further than it has been other than with mods. All the what ifs we´ve been dealing with sound like fiction. Not trying to be mean nor anything, but i don´t have much faith in any of those alternatives being possibly undergone.

[Do335 382]

Team Super Hornet worked mostly without source and just exe hex editing (or at least that's what they say to the public). Improvements are for sure relatively minimal and community following rather small, but the patches were sufficient to keep it alive due to the original awesomeness of Jane's F18...

 

 

I really feel WW2, Korea and other pre-60 combat is the way forward for SF if there is any. If one look at the missile era, DCS, Falcon and other sims have SF beat hands down. SF can live within the "alternate" casual community but the line gets really blurred between it and other flight or non-flight games. Otoh TK has done a tremendous job supporting guns only combat. The damage modelling and AI is excellent, surpassing even the sims, which is very important for guns only. The flight modelling if not hardcore is not bad at all. The lack of avionics (and some other features for modern like air refueling) in SF instantly vaporizes for this era since there is none. The dynamic campaign blows War thunder, IL2 and whatnot other ww2 game/sims right out. The graphics while not AAA quality still is much better than BoB2, Mig Alley, CFS3 and other vintage but quality ww2 sims. Sim-game, sim-lite or gamulation or whatever the concept didn't work that well but it becomes less relevant or, more of an advantage for this era.

 

But of course, it all doesn't matter, I agree with Baffmeister that this needs some entrepreneurial individual(s) to be realized perhaps in private, if there is any. As for an organized community group it's I guess like others said unlikely, apparently SF does not have a dedicated user base to begin with due to the lack of Multiplayer and marketing.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Do335

[+streakeagle 866]

The DCS:MiG-21bis is the sole example of any other sim surpassing SF2 in modeling 1960s/1970s missile armed aircraft.

If you want to fly and fight with Century Series, F-4s, F-5s, and pre MiG-29 era MiGs/Sus, SF2 remains the sim of choice.

But as DCS fills in some key aircraft in that era, it should supplant SF2.

 

I love SFP1/SF2 Korea, but DCS has fantastic F-86F/MiG-15bis modeling and the P-51D/Bf109Fw190 are also great.

At this point, the only time I fire up SF2 is to fly select aircraft: the F-4, Mirage, MiG-23, and F-14A.

DCS:F-14A will scratch one of those off the list.

[Do335 382]

Streakeagle I'm still having a hard time justifying forking out money for the vintage birds in DCS without the assorted theater and aircrafts in their time, let alone non-scripted missions and campaigns. Someone said it best perhaps that DCS is an airplane simulation and not battlefield simulation thus it suits certain kind of playstyles and not others so each to his own I guess.

 

Its business model is really great for sure IMO, a friend of mine knew Wags and said he's genius buiz wise...

 

 

What I miss as a player/simmer from DCS is what any other successful commercial venture at its peak builds which is a dedicated user base. But then when checking Belsimtek's F-86/Mig-15 forums it's about 1 new post per day so I digress.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Do335