What do we need?

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

In another thread, Crowford and Extremeone started a discussion about planes they wanted to see. We seem to do this periodically and it's been a while. I find it helpful when I'm planning new planes, but I quickly lose track of the list.

 

There are a lot of modders around here. so this time let's include other things besides planes - skins, ground objects, terrains, campaigns, effects, weapons, etc. So...  what do we need to fill the gaps in First Eagles?

[Heck 496]

LVG C-VI, Rumpler CV, FK8, Motorcycles, Halberstadt CL-II, Visiting dignitaries (Kaiser Bill, Boom Trenchard, etc.), Village church bells, various civilians for villages behind the lines (Workmen, Townsfolk, Washerwomen, etc.).

[+HerGr 9]

Any German (or Austrian) airplane seen in frontline service at august 1914.No one now included in FE (yes Fok. M7/BI,Lloyd CII-but it is early 1915 planes...)

[+whiteknight06604 934]

well since you asked. I'd love to see some early stuff like a caudron G3, Bleriot XI , Breguet-Michelin 4 Any early Farman or later Voison types or Taube of the more "modern" types maybe a Halberstadt CL-II ,AW FK.8 Any Italian 2 seater maybe one of the more modern SPAD or Albatros 2 seaters or one of my personal favs, the Morane Saulnier Ai .

of course I'll be more than happy with anything that is released, my list is less of a wish list and more of me just throwing some types out there that could be useful.

[deep 5]

+1 early types

[+ojcar 157]

French early tanks. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Chamond_(tank)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_CA1

 

Any plane do you like.

[+Geezer 3,569]

I can recycle the wings and stabilizer from my Halb CL4 to get a good start on a CL2.  Great camo and markings!

 

 

 

[Heck 496]

I would love to see that, Geezer. This was a very important aircraft and it's missing. I know we have the CL4, but the CL2 was more widely used. And I second ojcar's vote on the French tanks.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Heck

[33LIMA 972]

Given that air combat didn't seriously start until around mid-1915, I don't think we much miss Bleriot monoplanes, Rumpler Tauben, Albatros B-types etc.

 

I'd vote for LVG C VI (or other later-war German general-purpose 2-seater), Halberstand Cl II, AW FK8, Dorand AR and one other French multi-seater, like the Caudron R 11. Much the three biggest planeset gaps in FE/FE2 are a late-war German 2-seater, the FK 8 and a circa mid-1917 French 2-seater.

 

Ground objects, there seem to be plenty of already. A greater variety of buildings for larger towns and cities would help, plus a better building for the isolated barn or farmhouse; those are the non-aircraft items where there would be the biggest benefit.

[+Geezer 3,569]

I would love to see that, Geezer. This was a very important aircraft and it's missing. I know we have the CL4, but the CL2 was more widely used. And I second ojcar's vote on the French tanks.

 

I already have lots of other things to do, so the CL2 will take a while.  Having said that, I did work on a new gunner last night.

[+gterl 1,211]

+1 early types

 

I know, no serious fighting took place. But having a pilot shooting with a revolver would be fun. Or an observer with a rifle...plus we would be serious in covering the whole timeframe 14-18

[Wilches 1,172]

1- A new Fokker D.VIII/E.V

2- New Albatros D.I

3- A Brandenburg W 29

[Heck 496]

I'm going to second all votes for filling in the gaps in late war (fall 1916 to end of war) aircraft. If the late war gaps are covered, you will have the most complete WW1 dogfighting sim ever designed. And a sim in which players would receive for free a plane set that would cost them hundreds of dollars to acquire in Rise of Flight. After the late war gaps are filled, then the modders can turn their attention to the early war, as long as someone can contrive wing warping flight models that are barely controllable in a crosswind, and engine failures mid-flight, which were the two biggest threats to flyers during the early part of the war. 1915 might be somewhat interesting, because at least machine guns appeared then, but to have rifles and pistols accurately modeled in game, it would have to be next to impossible to hit with them, because, in reality, it was. One, or two, missions flown during the pistol and rifle period might be amusing, but I think that there's still more important gaps to be filled late war. Just my two cents... 

[+Geezer 3,569]

1915 might be somewhat interesting, because at least machine guns appeared then, but to have rifles and pistols accurately modeled in game, it would have to be next to impossible to hit with them, because, in reality, it was.

 

Correct.  TW's code for flexible guns is rudimentary, so it would be almost impossible to realistically model a rifle-shooting gunner.  Also note that a 1914 airplane requires just as much time/effort as a later aircraft.

[bubu 38]

I would like the no-man's land area to be more "chaotic"... with random explosions, constant MG fire, and a pall of continuous smoke and haze above the trenches.

[jeanba 1,920]

Caudron G6 / R4 and R11 would be fun

[Silberpfeil 363]

Bubu's post reminded me of an "Effects" thread a couple years back (see http://combatace.com/topic/78059-artillery-effect-in-no-mans-land-for-effects-guys/)which discussed a no-man's-land featuring (1) random artillery explosions, (2) machine gun tracer fire, and (3) smoke/haze/mustard gas clouds - all of which would be visible from above.

 

I'd like a simple primer on how to customize FE2 pilots.

[+gterl 1,211]

Mhhhm that reminds me of something!

 

By positioning guns in a certain way you can have them shooting at each other. To be onest I've always avoided this work, since it's extremely time consuming.

I've experimented with other ways of having 'random' explosions on the ground and came to this one (not perfect, but nice effects)

 

1. Change the 'ArmorValue' of the Shack4 in order to get in faster destroyed

2. Add a nice 'DestroyedEffect' to Shack4

3. Position two overlapping Shacks and EXACTLY in the small overlapp either a Hotchkiss or Parabellum AAA

4. Place as many from the above setup as you like along the frontline (slightly behind, etc....wherever you like)

 

Effect: Depending if you fly over it as ENEMY or FRIENDLY the AAA will start to shoot and destroy the shacks and then 'booom'

 

types.ini entry for Shack4

[TargetTypeXXX] <---------- just search for 'Shack4' within your types.ini file
Name=Shack4
FullName=Shack
ModelName=camp2.lod
TargetType=MISC
ActiveYear=0
TargetValue=0
UseGroundObject=FALSE
DamagePoint=0.003
ArmorValue=0.0 <----------------- Reduced to min.
ArmorType=0
RepairRate=25.00
StartDetectChance=0
StartIdentifiedChance=0
IncreaseDetectChanceKey=0
MaxVisibleDist=2000.0
DamagedModel=
DestroyedEffect=LargeRocketGroundExplosion <---- something that adds a nice 'boom' effect
DestroyedModel=
SecondaryEffect=LargeRocketGroundExplosion <---- something that adds a nice 'boom' effect
SecondaryChance=35

 

targets.ini entry

[TargetAreaXXX] <-------------------------------- replace with correct number
Name=Feldlager Passchendaele III <---------- just a name
Position=137859,137297
Location=2
Alignment=ENEMY
Radius=0.000000
ActiveYear=0
Target[001].Type=Shack4
Target[001].Offset=-2,0
Target[001].Heading=0
Target[002].Type=ParabellumAAA
Target[002].Offset=0,0
Target[002].Heading=0
Target[003].Type=Shack4
Target[003].Offset=2,0
Target[003].Heading=0

 

[TargetAreaXXX]
Name=Camp Ypres 2
Position=137257,138774
Location=1
Alignment=FRIENDLY
Radius=0.000000
ActiveYear=0
Target[001].Type=Shack4
Target[001].Offset=-2,0
Target[001].Heading=0
Target[002].Type=HotchkissAAA
Target[002].Offset=0,0
Target[002].Heading=0
Target[003].Type=Shack4
Target[003].Offset=2,0
Target[003].Heading=0

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

Here's an idea that has potential, but needs more work. I played with this when I made the Galicia terrain, but was not satisfied with it. I extracted the Crater.LOD and the Crater.BMP from the Objects.ini and put them in the Terrain folder. Then I made a Types that used the SmokeStackEffect from the factory. Then I placed a few in the Targets near a battlefield. 

 

I played around with some of the other effects, but only the smoke stack seemed to work. Someone who understands effects and emitters better than I do could make an effect with darker, thicker smoke.

 

[TargetTypeXXX]
Name=Crater
FullName=Crater
ModelName=Crater.lod
TargetType=MISC
ActiveYear=0
TargetValue=0
UseGroundObject=FALSE
DamagePoint=0.0
ArmorValue=0.0
ArmorType=0
RepairRate=2
StartDetectChance=0
StartIdentifiedChance=0
IncreaseDetectChanceKey=0
MaxVisibleDist=6000.0
Effect=SmokeStackEffect
EffectOffset=0.00,0.00,0.00

 

Some of these around Gterl's explosion effect would add more action to the battle fields.

 

That's my Farman F.30 in the shot. I'm going to finish that before I start anything new.

[Wrench 9,847]

secondary effect is what happens after the main, or destroyed effect. To add a persistent smoke (or at least until the player flys away), I'd recommend the VehicleFireEffect, as it's relatively small

 

that smoking crater idea is BRILLANT!!

 

what about using the ship smoke?, it should be darker (don't know if the crater would need a virtual engine), but in SF/SF2, when I place docked ships,  I use the following entries:

 

ExhaustEmitterName=ShipSmoke

ExhaustPosition=0.00,-16.0,9.0   <--- of course, that'll be different!

ExhaustEmitterSize=1.0

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

Thanks Wrench. I never wrote a data file, I was just looking for something fast that I could put in the types.ini  and would be there before it was destroyed. With a data file and an engine, you could probably attach just about any emitter for the exhaust. The ShipSmoke would probably work pretty good.

[Wrench 9,847]

should work "as is" in the _types ini; the statements I posted are FROM the types ini for many of my terrains (albeit for a docked boat).

[Wrench 9,847]

ok, a couple of quick tests... since I had the particle system ini already pulled, I went down the list, testing a few likely suspects

 

1st picture uses the AircraftSmokeEffect (it's a bit on the large size; maybe good for burning buildings?)

2nd uses the GroundComponentSmokeEffect  (a bit small methinks)

 

now, mind you, this is in SF2, so I'd extract the particle system ini from the Flight cat, and start looking. I'm reasonably certain they should be the same for the most part

 

edit:

forgot to add the types entry, with the effects statements

 

 

[TargetType***]
Name=crater1
FullName=crater
ModelName=crater.lod
TargetType=misc
ActiveYear=0
TargetValue=0
UseGroundObject=FALSE
DamagePoint=0.0
ArmorValue=0.0
ArmorType=0
RepairRate=0.150
StartDetectChance=0
StartIdentifiedChance=0
IncreaseDetectChanceKey=0
MaxVisibleDist=8000.0
DamagedModel=
DestroyedEffect=ammodumpexplosion
DestroyedModel=crater.lod
SecondaryChance=100
SecondaryEffect=MediumFire
//Effect=AircraftSmokeEffect
Effect=GroundComponentSmokeEffect
EffectOffset=0.0,0.0,0.0

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

I like where you're going with this. FE has several different sized craters. Maybe a mixture would be appropriate - large craters with heavy smoke, small craters with light smoke, etc.

[Wrench 9,847]

amending the statement above should read:

 

so I'd extract the particle system ini from FE/FE2s Flight cat

 

 

--

I know the larger smoke most likely will effect frame rates, so maybe used sparingly?

 

don't forget, you can also add destroyed objects to the terrain (like blown up vehicles, buildings, etc). All you need is to clone the objecet in the types ini, and add it as a ****d name. I've done this on several terrain, creating completely destroyed cities.

 

Something like this:

 

 

[TargetType***]
Name=TankWreck
FullName=Destroyed Tank
ModelName=TANK_DESTROYED.LOD
TargetType=Misc
UseGroundObject=FALSE
ActiveYear=0
TargetValue=0
RepairRate=0.0
StartDetectChance=20
StartIdentifiedChance=0
IncreaseDetectChanceKey=0
MaxVisibleDist=4000.0
DestroyedEffect=
SecondaryEffect=
SecondaryChance=0