Trump on F-35/F-18

[MAKO69 186]

Trump Asks Boeing To Price-Out ‘Comparable’ F-18 Super Hornet To Lockheed’s F-35

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/22/trump-asks-boeing-to-price-out-comparable-f-18-super-hornet-to-lockheeds-f-35.html

[+dtmdragon 2,704]

There are no words......

[PFunk 198]

Comparable?

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Trump is a fucking idiot.

[PFunk 198]

To be fair, we were getting an idiot either way.

[exhausted 55]

i dont know what we did to deserve it, but we're screwed

[+JimBeamer5 23]

Such informed commentary. Knew I came here for a reason....

[+Menrva 4,210]

Next, he will resuscitate the Tomcat...

[Sky High 166]

Take account that in the real world the choices of strategy are between nuclear and fourth-generation warfare. Even the most sophisticated aircraft is a white elephant against cloth-heads on a machine-gun-modified Toyota Hilux.

 

Regarding opponents such as China and Russia, the more overwhelming the US superiority in conventional weapons, the more likely will they resort to nukes. Therefore Trump is on the right track when he boasts that the US will always have an advantage in nuclear weapons. It's the old Deterrence stratagem, which was not unsuccessful.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Sky High

[MAKO69 186]

Boeing has already been working on a stealthy mission pod for the F/A-18 Superbug. The super has stealth technology built in to it already, not as much as the F-35. Stealth is a compromise, it doesn't mean the planes are invisible on radar It just means they are just harder to find.

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

The Super Bug cannot be upgraded to perform he 35's primary role... it will always be easier to detect and thus less survivable. The 35 is a penetration strike jet with a secondary fighter role. The Bug is jack of all trades but very much in  the 35's shadow when it comes to day one strike. They simply are not comparable.

 

Furthermore by the time you've upgraded a Bug to carry some/most of the 35's new avionics it likely wont be significantly cheaper than the 35 anyway... all Trump will achieve is p!ssing away all the R&D funds already spent on the 35 to end up with a sub par alternative... 

[MAKO69 186]

Previous thread from a couple years ago goes in depth to the comparison and capabilities of both aircraft. A lot of great contributions I suggest people read it before adding more replies. I'm am pro F-35 & F/A-18 Superbug. Boeing is also zeroing older Legacy Hornets to F/A-18 C+ to be more online with the war computers and radar of the superbug. It's all about money.

 

http://combatace.com/topic/82860-debate-fa-18-super-hornet-vs-f-35-lightning-ii/?fromsearch=1

[+JonathanRL 974]

i dont know what we did to deserve it, but we're screwed

Not proclaiming Obama the God Emperor of Mankind deserves a punishment upon the naugthy ;-)

[MAKO69 186]

Some pics for thought.

[Czech6 15]

Trump tweets that he is going to cancel the Air Force One contract and Boeing's stock plummeted.  Then he tweets that he had sold all his Boeing stock in June.  Now he tweets that he is going to cancel the Lockheed-Martin F-35 contract and ask Boeing to look at upgrading the new Advanced Super Hornet.  Now, Lockheed-Martin stock plummets and Boeing's stock skyrockets.  Guess what his stockbroker's were doing in that time.  Buying Boeing stock back at a value below what he sold it for?  Now, Boeing's stock jumps up and his Boeing stock has more value than what he bought it for a couple of days back.  Millions in profit in just a few days is my guess.  This is more than insider trading, this is racketeering.  It's going to be a rough four years if he stays in office that long.

 

Personally, I think too much has been spent on developing a stealth, all purpose fighter.  The stealth fighter and bombers did (and do) that specific function well and I think it is a specific function and all aircraft don't need "cloaking" capability.  But you need a perfect all around fighter that can dogfight like an F-15 and carry and deliver a bomb load like an A-6.  I'll cut out my tongue after I say this, but McNamara had one thing right, the three US air forces (sorry, Army) need to use the same aircraft as much as possible to cut down on all these separate government designs and contracts, and focus the funding, design, and production on one fleet.

 

All this will be mute once we get back in the nuclear arms race as stealth fighters will be eliminated by Total Thermal Nuclear War.  Who makes products for rocket systems, space stations, maybe Star Wars platforms?  Is it Lockheed-Martin?  Look for more changes on the stock market.  You heard it first right here.

[+Gepard 11,356]

I think, we will see a strategic change in US foreign policy. Trump realized, correctly, that Russia is no real threat for the USA, but China is a highly potential threat. So the USA will go a confrontation course against China.

If you want to confronte China, you cant rely only on technological superiority. You need planes which you can build in masses to an acceptable price.

The problem with F-35 and F-22 is their unbelievable oversized price. Okay, it are high potential planes, but  you cant buy enough of them. In a conflict with China you would need a lot of planes and so many F-35 would cause a collaps of the US finance budget.

As my old professor used to say: "You dont need the high potentials, you need the right potentials."

 

So Trumps way to try to drop the prices of combat planes is corect.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Trump is a fucking idiot.

Yes, an idiot, indeed

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747135/donald-trump-president-elect-f35-fighter-jet-tweet

 

Donald Trump in big win: F-35 fighter jets cost driven DOWN after President-elect's anger THE chief executive of Lockheed Martin Corp told President-elect Donald Trump on Friday that she was committed to driving down the cost of the company's F-35 fighter jet, a day after Trump took aim at the cost of the F-35 in a Twitter post. CEO Marillyn Hewson said she spoke with Mr Trump on Friday afternoon and assured him that she had heard his message "loud and clear" about reducing the cost of the F-35.

Mr Trump, in a tweet posted late on Thursday, suggested that an older aircraft made by rival aerospace company Boeing Co could offer a cheaper alternative to the F-35.

 

"Based on the tremendous cost and cost overruns of the Lockheed Martin F-35, I have asked Boeing to price-out a comparable F-18 Super Hornet!" Mr Trump said.

Ms Hewson, in a statement posted on Twitter, said she had had "a very good conversation" with Trump on Friday. "I gave him my personal commitment to drive the cost down aggressively," she said in the statement.

Lockheed shares closed down 1.3 per cent on Friday, nearing their lowest levels since the November 8 election.

[+Menrva 4,210]

Mr Trump, in a tweet posted late on Thursday, suggested that an older aircraft made by rival aerospace company Boeing Co could offer a cheaper alternative to the F-35.

 

Then I wonder why in the bloody hell Boeing's X-32 lost to Lockheed Martin's X-35...

I am not against the idea of seeing the Advanced Super Hornet, but a lot of money has already been wasted on the F-35. You simply can't tell the F-35s to go f... themselves. 

[PFunk 198]

The X-32 was less capable.

 

Looking at that Advanced Hornet...going into a knife fight with the induced drag and weight of a giant external pod seems like a really bad idea.

[MAKO69 186]

The X-32 was less capable.

 

Looking at that Advanced Hornet...going into a knife fight with the induced drag and weight of a giant external pod seems like a really bad idea.

The point of stealth is not to get into a "knife fight". The Superhornet is not a full stealth plane, but it has stealth components that make it harder to detect on radar compared to other late generation strike fighters. Stealth allows a pilot to slide in and out hopefully undetected. Its a package, the plane and the way its flown. If a pilot goes into hostile area whipping the ponies flashing control surfaces, it doesn't matter what the plane radar will see it eventually.

[+Gepard 11,356]

Isn't stealth overrated? Modern IRST systems are said to be capable to detect a plane at around 150 km.

What if the enemy is unable to detect a F-35 by Radar, but can detect and track it with IRST systems?

 

While mockup fights between Eurofighter in F-22, the EF was able to detect and track the Raptor at combat relevant distance. And this was in 2010. The development goes forward.

 

It would be careless to rely only on stealth.

[+Geezer 3,569]

 

It would be careless to rely only on stealth.

 

Yes.  I have worked on several stealth aircraft programs.  All stealth technology does is DELAY detection by radar, it does not make an aircraft "invisible."  Also, stealth technology mostly works against high frequency radar - the types of radar that were in wide spread use in 1980-2000.  Recently, new radar systems have been developed that use lower frequencies and these systems can detect stealth aircraft at greater distances than high frequency radar.  It is still difficult to detect stealth aircraft with low frequency radar, but not as difficult as high frequency radar.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Geezer

[MigBuster 2,884]

An ex F-102 pilot did claim about 60 miles for a B-52 head on on IRST back in the 1960s but this just serves to give the wrong impression (USAF ditched them till the F-35) . IRST has no doubt come on...........but if the EF with weapons shows up like a barn door on everyones radar (GCI/AWACs etc) a few hundred miles before it can get anything useful from a limited scan IRST then it really isn't levelling the field.

 

The F-35 is certainly not reliant on just RF/IR Stealth for survival..........certainly a big part of it sure.

[Toryu 156]

It's funny how people always want to fight yesterday's war.

There's not going to be a confrontation with China or Russia fought with airplanes. Ever.

Too damn expensive. For everybody involed and the others.

Shutting down the east-coast's power-supply via the internet is a much more efficient operation for the Chineese and Russians - better put some anti-hacking funding there than drowning LM in money.

 

The F-35 has been great for sucking taxpayer-money from the government teet for 25 years - all to produce a "Jack of all trades, master of none" over-compromised airframe, that sucks at everything, except detection-range and avionics.

Had there not been the force to build a VTOL-version to make the Marines happy (as if they're going to deploy that thing anyway to a forward base with minimal support*), the aircraft would look different and would perform better accross the board.

 

The need for stealth in maned aircraft wil be greatly reduced in the next couple of years - thanks to drone-technology and stand-off weapons.

 

___

* Have a look at in-commission rates of F-4s and A-6s in Vietnam and then apply that to the F-35B at various probable theatres of operation. The Marines have gotten an overly complex aircraft for their mission, just play with the big boys and keep "costs down" - an idea that has never worked out that way. Ever.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Toryu

[MigBuster 2,884]

How about comparisons after it has been in service for a good period......because anything else is clutching at straws.

 

No evidence the F-35 sucks at anything at all in reality.............say they didn't have the VTOL requirement how would it be better?...because it is also funny how people think that better means faster, TV and a few more degrees per second in a horizontal turn.

 

You can question why they are bringing a manned fighter online despite the advances in computing tech to put in Drones....but for the next few years they remain a complement only as they always have been (for a few airforces). As for throwing money at LM that can be questioned too.............as long as it isn't followed by the notion they should just throw similar or more at Boeing for a pretty much obsolete airframe in the SH.